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Venezuela has a tradition of corruption perhaps but I would be interested in how Venezuela would be doing without George Bush's corrupt World depression of 2008 and American sabotage and covert action against socialists there for 15 years.Taking the Bernie Sanders bait would be those who are confused about the state-control of capitalism. Hardt and Negri's perception of surplus labor (Post #773) seems to hold well for Venezuela's socialism, especially in the rural sector, and especially since Chinese economic hitmen were investing millions in Venezuelan grassroots agriculture as early as April of 2009.
www. : Millenial Candidates Embrace Socialism, While Venezuela Chokes On It
'....Venezuela. That country's government has practiced socialism for years and the result is 9,000 percent inflation rate. That's what socialism is like. Implementation of Marx's ideas make nobody happy, other than spoiled millenials who aren't suffering it.'
Marx is like Jesus.That's what socialism is like. Implementation of Marx's ideas make nobody happy, other than spoiled millenials who aren't suffering it.'
Nobody gives a damn about Marx or communism anymore, everyone is talking about socialism which is democratic everywhere in the modern world. I want to be quite a bit more like France Australia New Zealand Canada... Healthcare good vacations cheap college and training living wage good infrastructure. We have to soak the rich, everybody else is already screwed. We are the richest country so we would be even more happy than they are. Instead of the present GOP rat race.Marx is like Jesus.That's what socialism is like. Implementation of Marx's ideas make nobody happy, other than spoiled millenials who aren't suffering it.'
If the world followed his actual teachings
we wouldn't be living the bad ending in Back to the Future 2
with Biff Henderson as president.
Unfortunately Utopias don't work. especially when they have to spend a lot on defense LOLMarx is like Jesus.That's what socialism is like. Implementation of Marx's ideas make nobody happy, other than spoiled millenials who aren't suffering it.'
If the world followed his actual teachings
we wouldn't be living the bad ending in Back to the Future 2
with Biff Henderson as president.
You can't blame the GOP when Dems are just as guilty .Nobody gives a damn about Marx or communism anymore, everyone is talking about socialism which is democratic everywhere in the modern world. I want to be quite a bit more like France Australia New Zealand Canada... Healthcare good vacations cheap college and training living wage good infrastructure. We have to soak the rich, everybody else is already screwed. We are the richest country so we would be even more happy than they are. Instead of the present GOP rat race.
Every economic meltdown we've had has been by the GOP. And they are the ones with the giveaway to the rich the last 35 years, plus their propaganda machine is a disgrace. Plus the stupidest Wars ever....You can't blame the GOP when Dems are just as guilty .Nobody gives a damn about Marx or communism anymore, everyone is talking about socialism which is democratic everywhere in the modern world. I want to be quite a bit more like France Australia New Zealand Canada... Healthcare good vacations cheap college and training living wage good infrastructure. We have to soak the rich, everybody else is already screwed. We are the richest country so we would be even more happy than they are. Instead of the present GOP rat race.
$40 trillion disappearing isn't an illusion or a magic trick - it's coordinated and systematic.
Progressives don’t have any common sense"In the conservative mind, socialism means getting something for doing nothing. That pretty much describes the $21bn saved by the nation’s largest banks last year thanks to Trump’s tax cuts, some of which went into massive bonuses for bank executives. On the other hand, more than 4,000 lower-level bank employees got a big dose of harsh capitalism. They lost their jobs."People who get to keep more of their own moneywho gets lifted out of poverty with tax cut economics?Nobody is lifted out of poverty by the social safety sofa.What is there to envy?
White people without a college degree ages 18 to 64 are the largest class of adults lifted out of poverty by such programs (social safety nets), according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The think tank’s 2017 report stated that 6.2 million working-age whites were lifted above the poverty line in 2014 compared to 2.8 million blacks and 2.4 million Hispanics.
We get to pay for that, now that our tax refund is 8 percent less.
socialism for the wealthy, capitalism for the rest of us.
Why is it you think huge tax refunds are a good thing?
If people paid less in taxes then there refunds will be less because they overpaid less.
I haven't gotten a tax refund in 20 years so I guess you think that'd a bad thing right?
LolI agree tax refunds arent good, or especially bad either. The point is that middle class is paying more to subsidize the ultra wealthy."In the conservative mind, socialism means getting something for doing nothing. That pretty much describes the $21bn saved by the nation’s largest banks last year thanks to Trump’s tax cuts, some of which went into massive bonuses for bank executives. On the other hand, more than 4,000 lower-level bank employees got a big dose of harsh capitalism. They lost their jobs."People who get to keep more of their own moneywho gets lifted out of poverty with tax cut economics?Nobody is lifted out of poverty by the social safety sofa.
We get to pay for that, now that our tax refund is 8 percent less.
socialism for the wealthy, capitalism for the rest of us.
Why is it you think huge tax refunds are a good thing?
If people paid less in taxes then there refunds will be less because they overpaid less.
I haven't gotten a tax refund in 20 years so I guess you think that'd a bad thing right?
Who did Obama bail out in 2009 ?Every economic meltdown we've had has been by the GOP. And they are the ones with the giveaway to the rich the last 35 years, plus their propaganda machine is a disgrace. Plus the stupidest Wars ever....
Obama's debt was 80% at least averting a GOP depression and welfare and unemployment for the victims. Reagan and Bush debt was a scam just like Trump's..Every economic meltdown we've had has been by the GOP. And they are the ones with the giveaway to the rich the last 35 years, plus their propaganda machine is a disgrace. Plus the stupidest Wars ever....You can't blame the GOP when Dems are just as guilty .Nobody gives a damn about Marx or communism anymore, everyone is talking about socialism which is democratic everywhere in the modern world. I want to be quite a bit more like France Australia New Zealand Canada... Healthcare good vacations cheap college and training living wage good infrastructure. We have to soak the rich, everybody else is already screwed. We are the richest country so we would be even more happy than they are. Instead of the present GOP rat race.
$40 trillion disappearing isn't an illusion or a magic trick - it's coordinated and systematic.
Well by the time Obama got in, the market crashed months before and we were losing 800,000 jobs a month and yes he did turn it around for the American people. Too bad he can't change these god-awful GOP tax rates, a giveaway to the rich.Who did Obama bail out in 2009 ?Every economic meltdown we've had has been by the GOP. And they are the ones with the giveaway to the rich the last 35 years, plus their propaganda machine is a disgrace. Plus the stupidest Wars ever....
It wasn't the American people.
Ask them how well capitalism was doing in 1929.
View attachment 245504 View attachment 245506 View attachment 245505
To the extent that capitalism’s problems – inequality, instability (cycles/crises), etc. – stem in part from its production relationships, reforms focused exclusively on regulating or supplanting markets will not succeed in solving them. For example, Keynesian monetary policies (focused on raising or lowering the quantity of money in circulation and, correspondingly, interest rates) do not touch the employer-employee relationship, however much their variations redistribute wealth, regulate markets, or displace markets in favor of state-administered investment decisions. Likewise, Keynesian fiscal policies (raising or lowering taxes and government spending) do not address the employer-employee relationship.
Keynesian policies also never ended the cyclical instability of capitalism. The New Deal and European social democracy left capitalism in place in both state and private units (enterprises) of production notwithstanding their massive reform agendas and programs. They thereby left capitalist employers facing the incentives and receiving the resources (profits) to evade, weaken and eventually dissolve most of those programs.
It is far better not to distribute wealth unequally in the first place than to re-distribute it after to undo the inequality. For example, FDR proposed in 1944 that the government establish a maximum income alongside a minimum wage; that is one among the various ways inequality could be limited and thereby redistribution avoided. Efforts to redistribute encounter evasions, oppositions, and failures that compound the effects of unequal distribution itself. Social peace and cohesion are the victims of redistribution sooner or later. Reforming markets while leaving the relations/organization of capitalist production unchanged is like redistribution. Just as redistribution schemes fail to solve the problems rooted in distribution, market-focused reforms fail to solve the problems rooted in production.
Since 2008, capitalism has showed us all yet again its deep and unsolved problems of cyclical instability, deepening inequality and the injustices they both entail. Their persistence mirrors that of the capitalist organization of production. To successfully confront and solve the problems of economic cycles, income and wealth inequality, and so on, we need to go beyond the capitalist employer-employee system of production. The democratization of enterprises – transitioning from employer-employee hierarchies to worker cooperatives – is a key way available here and now to realize the change we need.
Worker coops democratically decide the distribution of income (wages, bonuses, benefits, profit shares, etc.) among their members. No small group of owners and the boards of directors they choose would, as in capitalist corporations, make such decisions. Thus, for example, it would be far less likely that a few individuals in a worker coop would earn millions while most others could not afford to send children to college. A democratic worker coop decision on the distribution of enterprise income would be far less unequal than what typifies capitalist enterprises. A socialism for the 21st century could and should include the transition from a capitalist to a worker-coop-based economic system as central to its commitments to less inequality and less social conflict over redistribution.
Capitalism Is Not the “Market System”
Strangely all the Socialist ideas that the racist KKK, Progressive Marxist Socialists and FDR came up with the New Deal to bring America out of the Depression did not work. What did bring the U.S. out of the Great Depression was World War II. The slogan was "A Chicken In Every Pot And A Car In The Garage". What's the slogan for the "Green New Deal"?
#37 – If FDR's New Deal Didn't End the Depression, Then It ...
https://fee.org/articles/37-if-fdrs-new-deal-didnt-end-the...
In April 1939, almost ten years after the crisis began, more than one in five Americans still could not find work. On the surface, World War II seems to mark the end of the Great Depression. During the war more than 12 million Americans were sent into the military, and a similar number toiled in defense-related jobs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~The Great Depression and World War II, 1929-1945 | Gilder ...
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-now/great-depression-and...
And between 1929 and 1945 the Great Depression and World War II utterly redefined the role of government in American society and catapulted the United States from an isolated, peripheral state into the world’s hegemonic superpower.
Everything he posted is dead on accurate. Why do people ignore this?
And in fact, it wasn't even world war 2 that ended the depression. There is only one economic measure that suggests the depression ended at world war 2, and that is the unemployment rate.
But the unemployment rate declining, was largely due to the US drafting everyone into the military. Unemployed people went into the military, or employed people were drafted, and had to be replaced by unemployed people. The real number of jobs, in the private sector really didn't increase much. What increased was the number of people in the military.
If we simply made it a prison sentence to be unemployed, and put all the unemployed into labor gangs, would you conclude that dramatically lower unemployment was due to economic growth? NO, of course not. That would be ridiculous. But that is exactly what happened in WW2.
And by any economic measure, the standard of living declined during world war 2. Rationing of meat, and eggs, and automobiles. Everything was reduced. In what economic growth situation, does everyone become worse off?
In reality, the real end of the depression was in the late 40s, when tariffs on trade were removed, regulations were reduced, and taxes were cut.
A lot of people fail to remember that in 1945, when the war was over, and all the men started returning home, tons of problems came up. Unemployment went up, there was a housing crisis, and shortages of food.
So all the problems that existed before the war, returned after the war. It was the repeal of the taxes, and the regulations, and tariffs, that resulted in all those problems going away.
~~~~~~
The Wartime Economy | US History II (American Yawp)
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/.../chapter/the-wartime-economy-2
The Wartime Economy. Economies win wars no less than militaries. ... as the War Production Board and the Office of War Mobilization and Reconversion managed economic production for the war effort and economic output exploded. ... southward, to Mexico, to fill its labor force. Between 1942 and 1964, the United States contracted thousands of ...
Right.... but when you look at the standard of living, it declined. People could not get a car, for example, because factories were making jeeps and tanks.
People couldn't buy all new clothes, because factories were making military clothing and boots.
And yes, I of course we had to get employees from Mexico.... because our people were all in the military over seas.
Lastly, the production numbers are skewed. This might be too hard of an economic concept for you, but try and follow me.
How does the government know how much value (gross domestic product) is produced by a factory? If you look at 10 cars, you don't know how much value those cars have. So how does the government determine how much value is produced? By looking at how much they sell for.
Those cars go to market. They sell for $40,000 per car. Now the government can look at those numbers. They sold for $400,000. Thus $400,000 of economic value was created by the factory.
Now, translate that into a tank factory. How does the government know who much value the factory produce? It doesn't. Tanks do not go to market, and end up sold. So the government has no idea how much a tank is worth. They just arbitrarily gave it a price, and used that price to claim GDP went up.
But not only were those numbers made up... but building a tank provides no economic value to the economy. The tank rolled onto a boot, shipped across the planet, and got blown up.
No one in the US, had a better life, because they built a tank. You can't use it to go to the store, you can't transport goods with it, you can't use it to go on vacation.
Which brings me back to the point.... by every measure, the standard of living in the US declined during world war 2. Rationing of everything, limited supplies, food tickets. It was not an economic boom time.
And by the way, wage controls held down wages for the working people. It's always funny how everyone tries to claim FDR was this great socialists, and if we actually put in place those policies today, you'd be freaking out.
So your argument is to ignore data in favor of a bunch of pictures you posted that may not even be from the Great Depression? And you want to whine about “propaganda”? Oh the irony.So your argument is a picture of a book you never read which is probably Rockefeller or Carnegie propaganda
. Congratulations.
From my OP....So your argument is to ignore data in favor of a bunch of pictures
Your “OP” was idiotic, sweetie. Socialism has a failure rate of 100% world wide. It has never worked. It doesn’t work. It never will work. And only a parasite looking for a free ride chooses to ignore the catastrophic failure of socialism.From my OP....So your argument is to ignore data in favor of a bunch of pictures
Christianity has a murder rate of 100% but they get to run a tax- exempt propaganda operation nationwide.Socialism has a failure rate of 100% world wide. It has never worked. It doesn’t work. It never will work. And only a parasite looking for a free ride chooses to ignore the catastrophic failure of socialism.
Nope just 8 years of GOP Deregulation and corruption as usual...So your argument is to ignore data in favor of a bunch of pictures you posted that may not even be from the Great Depression? And you want to whine about “propaganda”? Oh the irony.So your argument is a picture of a book you never read which is probably Rockefeller or Carnegie propaganda
. Congratulations.
You’re an idiot. Socialism created the Great Depression. Even left-wing UCLA admitted as much after their economist studied it. Idiot.
it still applies. you are Only always right, in right wing fantasy.I didn't say thati was quoting Aristotle?Why should we take the right wing seriously?That's an oxymoron
When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy
If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.
Aristotle
Why should I take you seriously?
seems you don't know how to use the quote function either
