Нiring labor in the Right society

[Red Front]

Will never happen on a scale bigger than a community. Ever.
Its a dreamland. Your retarded hero Marx never considered human nature in his bullshit.
You would figure after all these years a commie would actually start thinking and considering history.
Alas, here we are. Void of thoughtful commies.
You will have to have the state lead you in your pipedream "revolution" Thats where your addiction to authority comes into play.
Ironic, no?

It's going to have to happen on a larger scale when technology necessitates it. You're obviously ignoring the fact that capitalism relies completely on wage labor.

Human nature adapts and evolves. According to you, we should return to the caves? Your appeal to human nature is silly. Should we become savages, because for most of human history that's what we were? So your dependence on "nature" to support the gross exploitation of human beings, is quite pathetic and shallow.

It's ironic that you accuse me of having an addiction to authority when you're the one peddling a system of production based on authoritarianism and human exploitation.

Technology will necessitate the socialization and democratization of production, whether you like it or not. Socialism and Communism are the future, so you might as well come to terms with them now before you're forced to do it under worse conditions.

 

[TNHarley]

It's going to have to happen on a larger scale when technology necessitates it. You're obviously ignoring the fact that capitalism relies completely on wage labor.

Human nature adapts and evolves. According to you, we should return to the caves? Your appeal to human nature is silly. Should we become savages, because for most of human history that's what we were? So your dependence on "nature" to support the gross exploitation of human beings, is quite pathetic and shallow.

It's ironic that you accuse me of having an addiction to authority when you're the one peddling a system of production based on authoritarianism and exploitation.

Technology will necessitate the socialization and democratization of production, whether you like it or not. Socialism and Communism are the future, so you might as well come to terms with them now before you're forced to do it in the future under worse conditions.

We wont be communist. The state will never dissolve itself. Its fantasy bro.
Why would i think we should return to caves? Thats dumb. Frankly, I have no idea where you came to that conclusion. Its mind boggling..
You know what authoritarianism actually is. You make that abundantly clear.
Eventually, everything will be robotic. Im not delusional. I think thats where we go our separate ways. Reality

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Will never happen on a scale bigger than a community. Ever.
Its a dreamland. Your retarded hero Marx never considered human nature in his bullshit.
You would figure after all these years a commie would actually start thinking and considering history.
Alas, here we are. Void of thoughtful commies.
You will have to have the state lead you in your pipedream "revolution" Thats where your addiction to authority comes into play.
Ironic, no?

Guess who else never considered human nature in their bullshit?? Libertarians...


Which is why that system has never existed.....ever....no matter how many different strands of Libertarianism you try to come up with....

 

[TNHarley]

Guess who else never considered human nature in their bullshit?? Libertarians...


Which is why that system has never existed.....ever....no matter how many different strands of Libertarianism you try to come up with....

Ummm how about America? The principles of the founders were just about the same.
I mean, its not now. The stupidity of the American people let this country turn into a corporatocracy, unfortunately.

 

[Red Front]

We wont be communist. The state will never dissolve itself. Its fantasy bro.
Why would i think we should return to caves? Thats dumb. Frankly, I have no idea where you came to that conclusion. Its mind boggling..
You know what authoritarianism actually is. You make that abundantly clear.
Eventually, everything will be robotic. Im not delusional. I think thats where we go our separate ways. Reality

The original purpose of the state was to protect private property and the interests of the owner class. Under socialism, the state takes a different role. It organizes production and protects the interests of the working class. However, high-communism is born when the consumer (everyone is a consumer), has complete personal control or ownership over the means of production (able to produce everything that they consume without anyone else's help or contribution). So in 100 or 200 years, when technology permits, the individual consumer will be able to produce everything they will ever need to live:

​

This is when the state becomes superfluous. All relations become 100% voluntary. No one needs anyone else to help them produce the material goods that they consume, hence communities are no longer in need of the apparatus of the state. There would be no state authority or force that could impose anything upon anyone, since people could literally, just pack up and leave and go anywhere. When there's absolute abundance, there's no need to manage production or centrally plan an economy as in a socialist society or state. That's the power of advanced technology. Atomic precision manufacturing machines/nanotechnology will free humanity from all states. Again, all relationships and communities will be 100% voluntary. There will be no system of coercion that will be able to maintain or take the role of the state. The state ceases to exist. This is the Marxist definition of high-communism.

 

[TNHarley]

The original purpose of the state was to protect private property and the interests of the owner class. Under socialism, the state takes a different role. It organizes production and protects the interests of the working class. However, high-communism is born when the consumer (everyone is a consumer), has complete personal control or ownership over the means of production (able to produce everything that they consume without anyone else's help or contribution). So in 100 or 200 years, when technology permits, the individual consumer will be able to produce everything they will ever need to live:

​

This is when the state becomes superfluous. All relations become 100% voluntary. No one needs anyone else to help them produce the material goods that they consume, hence communities are no longer in need of the apparatus of the state. There would be no state authority or force that could impose anything upon anyone, since people could literally, just pack up and leave and go anywhere. When there's absolute abundance, there's no need to manage production or centrally plan an economy. That's the power of advanced technology. Atomic precision manufacturing machines/nanotechnology will free humanity from all states. Again, all relationships and communities will be 100% voluntary. There will be no system of coercion that will be able to take the role of a state.

You ignore human nature. Most people must be lead.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Ummm how about America? The principles of the founders were just about the same.
I mean, its not now. The stupidity of the American people let this country turn into a corporatocracy, unfortunately.

No matter how much you try to dance around the fact, America was never libertarian -- and there has never been a libertarian economic system, ever.....


You are more than welcome to create your own libertarian wonderland....it ain't like folks ain't tried.....


Even when they tried libertarianism on the smallest of scales...it failed.....why??

How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears

Seriously, this happened. You should absolutely read about it.

www.vox.com

The Short, Unhappy Life of a Libertarian Paradise

The residents of Colorado Springs undertook a radical experiment in lean government. Here’s what they got.

www.politico.com

When the folks who love Libertarianism the most, the wealthiest of people, decided they can create their own libertarian utopia, it failed....why??

A Silicon Valley billionaire's dream of a floating libertarian utopia may have finally been killed

The Seasteading Institute wants to build a floating libertarian utopia in the middle of the ocean. But a key partner has pulled out of the plans.

www.businessinsider.com

The usual excuse when Libertarian bullshit fails is "Bro, not that type of Libertarian, bro" -- and a new strain of Libertarian is born...until reality inconveniences that fantasy too....that is why there are 8272763 different types of Libertarianism....reality keeps forcing them to make up a new one

 

[Red Front]

You ignore human nature. Most people must be lead.

You're the one obviously ignoring human nature and nature in general. Leadership doesn't have to be authoritarian, it can be based on mutual interests and the consent of the governed. So in a civilized society, there can be leaders, but those leaders are elected by the members of the community. There's a name for that, it's called "democracy". You, unfortunately, apparently believe might makes right, and authority and leadership are based on class privilege and self-entitlement = capitalism.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

You're the one obviously ignoring human nature and nature in general. Leadership doesn't have to be authoritarian, it can be based on mutual interests and the consent of the governed. So in a civilized society, there can be leaders, but those leaders are elected by the members of the community. There's a name for that, it's called "democracy". You, unfortunately, apparently believe might makes right, and authority and leadership are based on class privilege and self-entitlement = capitalism.

Most pseudo-libertarians like TN think might makes right....it makes them feel better about their own insecurity

 

[TNHarley]

No matter how much you try to dance around the fact, America was never libertarian -- and there has never been a libertarian economic system, ever.....


You are more than welcome to create your own libertarian wonderland....it ain't like folks ain't tried.....


Even when they tried libertarianism on the smallest of scales...it failed.....why??

How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears

Seriously, this happened. You should absolutely read about it.

www.vox.com

The Short, Unhappy Life of a Libertarian Paradise

The residents of Colorado Springs undertook a radical experiment in lean government. Here’s what they got.

www.politico.com

When the folks who love Libertarianism the most, the wealthiest of people, decided they can create their own libertarian utopia, it failed....why??

A Silicon Valley billionaire's dream of a floating libertarian utopia may have finally been killed

The Seasteading Institute wants to build a floating libertarian utopia in the middle of the ocean. But a key partner has pulled out of the plans.

www.businessinsider.com

The usual excuse when Libertarian bullshit fails is "Bro, not that type of Libertarian, bro" -- and a new strain of Libertarian is born...until reality inconveniences that fantasy too....that is why there are 8272763 different types of Libertarianism....reality keeps forcing them to make up a new one

You can deny it if you want. Doesnt bother me a bit.
I mean, you are wrong on just about everything else. Why not the history of your own country? Lolz

 

[TNHarley]

You're the one obviously ignoring human nature and nature in general. Leadership doesn't have to be authoritarian, it can be based on mutual interests and the consent of the governed. So in a civilized society, there can be leaders, but those leaders are elected by the members of the community. There's a name for that, it's called "democracy". You, unfortunately, apparently believe might makes right, and authority and leadership are based on class privilege and self-entitlement = capitalism.

You are absolutely horrible at assuming things. Blows my mind how you come up with this shit lol
So there will be a government? Now you seem to be bouncing all over the place.

 

[Red Front]

You are absolutely horrible at assuming things. Blows my mind how you come up with this shit lol
So there will be a government? Now you seem to be bouncing all over the place.

When did I ever say that socialism doesn't have a government? Socialism is the process that leads to high communism, which is a stateless, classless society. You fail to comprehend what you read and ignore what people say, making irrelevant points. I'm not going to continue going back and forth with you, so have the last word and delude yourself into thinking you've "won" something.

For everyone else who is genuinely interested in learning more about socialism, message me your questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[TNHarley]

When did I ever say that socialism doesn't have a government? Socialism is the process that leads to high communism, which is a stateless, classless society. You fail to comprehend what you read and ignore what people say, making irrelevant points. I'm not going to continue going back and forth with you, so have the last word and delude yourself into thinking you've "won" something.

For everyone else who is genuinely interested in learning more about socialism, message me your questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

We were talking about COMMUNISM, you stupid fuck. Good gawd almighty
Have a wonderful day, pinko

 

[BlackSand]

classless society

.

There is no such thing as a "classless society".

There will always be People that want more, have more, and that are not satisfied with a mediocre existence.
They will always achieve greater wealth and control in whatever form it may appear ... And there will always be the dregs of society that aren't really worth a shit.

.​

 

[WinterBorn]

.

If someone owns a rice field in Northern Arkansas and lets a farmer plant, tend, harvest and sell the rice at whatever he can manage in cost and profit ...
Then charges duck hunters $500 a day (each gun), for guided hunts over the harvested rice field during duck season ...

Does that count as a cooperative ...

.​

YES!!

 

[Red Front]

.

There is no such thing as a "classless society".

There will always be People that want more, have more, and that are not satisfied with a mediocre existence.
They will always achieve greater wealth and control in whatever form it may appear ... And there will always be the dregs of society that aren't really worth a shit.

.​

In capitalism, there are socioeconomic classes, but in socialism and high communism, there are no socioeconomic classes. There are no haves and have-nots, exploiters, and exploited, people that have food and others who don't, people who have a home and people who are homeless, people who own land, and others that don't or couldn't own land even if they wanted to. All of the consumer's primary needs for survival are recognized as human rights. Food, housing, healthcare, education..etc, are provided to the individual by society (the collective). Lands are owned and managed collectively. The state plans the economy (the production and distribution of goods), in cooperation with the worker-elected heads of industries and production team leaders of worker-cooperatives. Production in socialism isn't for the purpose of private profits or the private accumulation of capital, it is rather to meet people's needs. If technology is advanced enough, and indeed today it is, each individual can have a very high standard of living.

Everyone in a socialist society can have a home or perhaps several homes, with some land. Everyone will have a means of transportation, both personal and public. Everyone of course will have plenty of food, access to healthcare, and education, and a job in a field they choose to work in. Every member of society that can work will work, a certain number of hours weekly. That work will become less and less laborious as technology advances. Since we work to support the system that is providing us with a high standard of living and to help support our needs, and not for wages or money, there is no fear of technology taking our jobs. Technology is seen as a tool to make production less laborous or let's say, human labor intensive. Our goal is to have technology do as much of the work as possible. What I just described now is socialism, which is the process that leads to high communism.

High communism, which is the objective of socialism, is when the individual consumer (you), is capable of producing everything he or she consumes without anyone else's assistance or input, thanks to technology. The individual consumer has complete control over the means of production or the process of producing consumer goods and services like food, clothing and even eventually healthcare as well. I embedded videos in a previous post, showing the technology that will make that possible in the future. When each individual consumer has access to that technology, the socialist state becomes superfluous. That doesn't happen overnight, it's a process. There is no more use for a state authority to centrally plan and lead production, because each individual will have the technology to produce everything they consume and use. The functions of the state, with its elections, law enforcement, all of that is reduced to the level of the local community soviets or people's councils. The councils can cooperate with others, but the authority or power of coercian is decentralized hence there is no large state aparatus.

Anyone can leave and live anywhere with their nannotechnology, if the elected officials of a community council become overbearing. You just go "bye bye" and that's it. You don't need anyone, all human relations become 100% consentual. That's what technology is going to allow in the not too distant future.

A community governing body or soviet, can be organized to manage the robots, artificial intelligence, autonomous systems, self-driving vehicles, in their maintenance tasks for public properties, like public transportation, public hospitals and educational institutions, assuming they're still needed. Technology will eventually get rid of even public hospitals. You'll be able to treat yourself medically with technology and educate yourself as well. This is the objective of high-communism, which is complete personal autonomy and control over the means of production. You personally own the means of production. Socialism is the process that leads to that.

Capitalism will get in the way of that, due to its socioeconomic class structure and system of production. It requires a capitalist that is pursuing private profits, through the exploitation of human wage labor. The capitalists in a capitalist society are the pillars of society and the wage labor is the foundation upon which they rest. So when you have technology that replaces wage labor, the capitalist will create a type of techno-feudalism, where they exclusively own the technology of production, and legally control it, not allowing a worker-cooperative or any other individual or group (the public, the state or government) to use it without paying a hefty fee to the capitalists. Human progress will be undermined because the capitalists recognize that if technology advances to a point where wage labor isn't needed anymore, being replaced by technology, that will be the end of markets and hence capitalism. They lose their power and privileged social status. That's why so many billionaires are now talking about giving everyone a UBI or "Universal Basic Income". They have to conjure up fake paying consumers and an artificial market.

When technology replaces wage labor, the whole edifice of capitalism crumbles. Like I just mentioned earlier, human wage labor is the foundation upon which the pillars of capital rest. You eliminate the foundation and the whole building collapses. So that's why the capitalists want the government to hand everyone a monthly check to artificially create paying consumers that will buy their products. UBI is capitalism on life support.

Socialism and high-communism is the solution to high technology replacing wage-labor. You no longer produce for a profit or for money, you produce to meet human needs. You can create a very advanced society, providing everyone with a high standard of living, thanks to technology. Socialists aren't afraid of technology, we welcome it, because our mode of production isn't based on wage-labor. Labor and wage labor are two different things. One is waged, another isn't.

The future of human production is eventually high communism. We began with primitive communism, tens of thousands of years ago when we lived in tribes:

We end with high-communism (high-tech communism):

​

Life first took the form of singular celled organisms. It then evolved into multicelled life, as in coral reefs, plants, plankton, invertebrates, fish, and many other animals. These animals evolved to form communities and likewise, the human animal also evolved and eventually formed its own unique communities. Human society is born and evolves into civilization, and it's up to the majority of people to decide what's the best way to organize their labor and the production of goods that they must consume. As technology advances, it will become apparent that we can do much better than capitalism, a system of human exploitation that only exists to primarily serve the needs of a few at the great expense of the many. With the advancement of technology, wage labor will be significantly reduced and eventually eliminated hence creating massive unemployment and the collapse of capitalism. The solution to the end of capitalism due to advanced technology is socialist production (the socialization and democratization of production), which produces all of the goods people consume for the sake of meeting human needs rather than generating private profits. Socialism and high-communism is the future of human production.

Monthly Review | Why Socialism?

Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is.… Clarity about the aims and…

monthlyreview.org

​

 

[BlackSand]

In capitalism, there are socioeconomic classes, but in socialism and high communism, there are no socioeconomic classes. There are no haves and have-nots, exploiters, and exploited, people that have food and others who don't, people who have a home and people who are homeless, people who own land, and others that don't or couldn't own land even if they wanted to. All of the consumer's primary needs for survival are recognized as human rights. Food, housing, healthcare, education..etc, are provided to the individual by society (the collective). Lands are owned and managed collectively. The state plans the economy (the production and distribution of goods), in cooperation with the worker-elected heads of industries and production team leaders of worker-cooperatives. Production in socialism isn't for the purpose of private profits or the private accumulation of capital, it is rather to meet people's needs. If technology is advanced enough, and indeed today it is, each individual can have a very high standard of living.

Everyone in a socialist society can have a home or perhaps several homes, with some land. Everyone will have a means of transportation, both personal and public. Everyone of course will have plenty of food, access to healthcare, and education, and a job in a field they choose to work in. Every member of society that can work will work, a certain number of hours weekly. That work will become less and less laborious as technology advances. Since we work to support the system that is providing us with a high standard of living and to help support our needs, and not for wages or money, there is no fear of technology taking our jobs. Technology is seen as a tool to make production less laborous or let's say, human labor intensive. Our goal is to have technology do as much of the work as possible. What I just described now is socialism, which is the process that leads to high communism.

High communism, which is the objective of socialism, is when the individual consumer (you), is capable of producing everything he or she consumes without anyone else's assistance or input, thanks to technology. The individual consumer has complete control over the means of production or the process of producing consumer goods and services like food, clothing and even eventually healthcare as well. I embedded videos in a previous post, showing the technology that will make that possible in the future. When each individual consumer has access to that technology, the socialist state becomes superfluous. That doesn't happen overnight, it's a process. There is no more use for a state authority to centrally plan and lead production, because each individual will have the technology to produce everything they consume and use. The functions of the state, with its elections, law enforcement, all of that is reduced to the level of the local community soviets or people's councils. The councils can cooperate with others, but the authority or power of coercian is decentralized hence there is no large state aparatus.

Anyone can leave and live anywhere with their nannotechnology, if the elected officials of a community council become overbearing. You just go "bye bye" and that's it. You don't need anyone, all human relations become 100% consentual. That's what technology is going to allow in the not too distant future.

A community governing body or soviet, can be organized to manage the robots, artificial intelligence, autonomous systems, self-driving vehicles, in their maintenance tasks for public properties, like public transportation, public hospitals and educational institutions, assuming they're still needed. Technology will eventually get rid of even public hospitals. You'll be able to treat yourself medically with technology and educate yourself as well. This is the objective of high-communism, which is complete personal autonomy and control over the means of production. You personally own the means of production. Socialism is the process that leads to that.

Capitalism will get in the way of that, due to its socioeconomic class structure and system of production. It requires a capitalist that is pursuing private profits, through the exploitation of human wage labor. The capitalists in a capitalist society are the pillars of society and the wage labor is the foundation upon which they rest. So when you have technology that replaces wage labor, the capitalist will create a type of techno-feudalism, where they exclusively own the technology of production, and legally control it, not allowing a worker-cooperative or any other individual or group (the public, the state or government) to use it without paying a hefty fee to the capitalists. Human progress will be undermined because the capitalists recognize that if technology advances to a point where wage labor isn't needed anymore, being replaced by technology, that will be the end of markets and hence capitalism. They lose their power and privileged social status. That's why so many billionaires are now talking about giving everyone a UBI or "Universal Basic Income". They have to conjure up fake paying consumers and an artificial market.

When technology replaces wage labor, the whole edifice of capitalism crumbles. Like I just mentioned earlier, human wage labor is the foundation upon which the pillars of capital rest. You eliminate the foundation and the whole building collapses. So that's why the capitalists want the government to hand everyone a monthly check to artificially create paying consumers that will buy their products. UBI is capitalism on life support.

Socialism and high-communism is the solution to high technology replacing wage-labor. You no longer produce for a profit or for money, you produce to meet human needs. You can create a very advanced society, providing everyone with a high standard of living, thanks to technology. Socialists aren't afraid of technology, we welcome it, because our mode of production isn't based on wage-labor. Labor and wage labor are two different things. One is waged, another isn't.

The future of human production is eventually high communism. We began with primitive communism, tens of thousands of years ago when we lived in tribes:

View attachment 673018



View attachment 673019



We end with high-communism (high-tech communism):


View attachment 673020


View attachment 673022

View attachment 673031


View attachment 673032

View attachment 673030


View attachment 673023


View attachment 673024



View attachment 673025



View attachment 673026


View attachment 673027


View attachment 673028







​

Life first took the form of singular celled organisms. It then evolved into multicelled life, as in coral reefs, plants, plankton, invertebrates, fish, and many other animals. These animals evolved to form communities and likewise, the human animal also evolved and eventually formed its own unique communities. Human society is born and evolves into civilization, and it's up to the majority of people to decide what's the best way to organize their labor and the production of goods that they must consume. As technology advances, it will become apparent that we can do much better than capitalism, a system of human exploitation that only exists to primarily serve the needs of a few at the great expense of the many. With the advancement of technology, wage labor will be significantly reduced and eventually eliminated hence creating massive unemployment and the collapse of capitalism. The solution to the end of capitalism due to advanced technology is socialist production (the socialization and democratization of production), which produces all of the goods people consume for the sake of meeting human needs rather than generating private profits. Socialism and high-communism is the future of human production.

View attachment 673036

Monthly Review | Why Socialism?

Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is.… Clarity about the aims and…

monthlyreview.org

​

.

Yeah ... Good Luck With That ...

.​

 

[Red Front]

.

Yeah ... Good Luck With That ...

.​

Good luck with capitalism.

 

[BlackSand]

Good luck with capitalism.

View attachment 673067​

.

Thanks ... But don't worry about me ...

.​

.

 

[Red Front]

All the socialist shit you want turns people into slaves to the owners of machines and land that do not belong to proletariat.

That's all of the capitalist shit that you want, where a few rich people own everything and hire people like you to slave for them. It's better to have a democratic state plan the economy and production, in cooperation with democratically run worker-cooperatives. Democracy is better than the capitalist shit tyranny that you're defending.