Нiring labor in the Right society

[TNHarley]

Go ahead TN Harley, debunk me. Let's see what you got.


All of the lands belong to the people. There's no reason why citizens of the socialist state can't own homes and even lands, provided they're not exploiting anyone. Farmers can form farm cooperatives, and run them democratically.

There is nothing to debunk. What you said was hilarious. Cant take a compliment? lolz

 

[BlackSand]

A worker cooperative or a farm cooperative is when people work together to produce products and they collectively own what they produce. They might decide to consume what they produce or trade it for other goods or sell it on the market. Cooperatives are run democratically, every manager or production team leader is elected into that position and is accountable to everyone. There's mutual accountability, between management and their subordinates.

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Farmers Cooperatives are not unusual and exist here today.
They don't even require all the government garbage ... It's just an agreement between farmers.

They share equipment and labor ... And they use the increased purchasing power to secure better prices on seed, supplies and equipment.
They also use the increased bargaining power when it comes to Commodities Traders.

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[Red Front]

How should disputes be resolved in the cooperative?

Council/Soviet. As a worker-owner, you have rights and the means to exercise them and there's a process, a system in place that allows people to express their grievances and resolve conflicts. Is it perfect? No, human beings aren't perfect, including whatever system they might create. But it's better than being a wage slave and not having any power whatsoever. At least in a worker cooperative, you're not treated like some cog in a machine, you're a member of a community and a worker-owner.

 

[Red Front]

There is nothing to debunk. What you said was hilarious. Cant take a compliment? lolz

Why is it hilarious?

 

[TNHarley]

Why is it hilarious?

Did you read it?

 

[Red Front]

Did you read it?

Of course, I wrote and read it as well. Tell me why you believe it's funny? Are you willing and able to elaborate?

 

[rupol2000]

Council/Soviet. As a worker-owner, you have rights and the means to exercise them and there's a process, a system in place that allows people to express their grievances and resolve conflicts. Is it perfect? No, human beings aren't perfect, including whatever system they might create. But it's better than being a wage slave and not having any power whatsoever. At least in a worker cooperative, you're not treated like some cog in a machine, you're a member of a community and a worker-owner.

In any case, this is not a left-wing enterprise where the property rights belong to the bolshevik-capitalist

 

[TNHarley]

Of course, I wrote and read it as well. Tell me why you believe it's funny? Are you willing and able to elaborate?

Your use of terms of authority to describe private property owners.
Your sense of entitlement.
Your addiction to central authority. Which is extremely ironic.
All humorous.

 

[BlackSand]

Many areas that once hired numerous working hands are now automated.

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This tractor doesn't even have a cab on it ...
It has yet to ask for Union protections, comes with a maintenance plan and warranty, and doesn't require collective bargaining.

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[Red Front]

In any case, this is not a left-wing enterprise where the property rights belong to the bolshevik-capitalist

I'm not a bolshevik or a capitalist. In a capitalist-run economy, the property is still owned by the state and the community that formed it. The community forms the state and the state acts as the property manager and enforcer of the laws of property ownership. The difference between capitalists and socialists is that we tell you the truth. If you want to find out who actually owns "your real estate", don't pay property taxes or try building something on the property without a permit from the state. Stop mowing your lawn, let go ferrel and stop pouring chlorine into your pool, let it go green and become infested with mosquitos. The actual owner of the property will knock on your door eventually and demand you follow the rules or leave. You lose the right to use the property.

In a capitalist-run economy, people actually just own the usage rights. That's what you're buying and selling. Usage rights. You don't own shit, but your fruit of the looms and other personal items. You have personal property, that is yours because you and the community recognize it as yours. In a socialist society, people have more rights to housing, their homes, than in a capitalist-run society where if you don't pay a mortgage or lack money, you lose your home. You end up homeless. In socialism you will never be homeless, because housing is a human right. Food, housing, healthcare, and education, a job, all of that is a right.

 

[Red Front]

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This tractor doesn't even have a cab on it ...
It has yet to ask for Union protections, comes with a maintenance plan and warranty, and doesn't require collective bargaining.


View attachment 672795

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I love that. Here let me show you something...

NO WAGE LABOR = NO PAYING CONSUMERS = NO MARKETS = NO CAPITALISM = SOCIALISM = HIGH COMMUNISM.

Communists love technology. Bring it on.

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[rupol2000]

The difference between capitalists and socialists is that we tell you the truth

Socialists lie more than capitalists. The capitalists at least make no secret of the fact that they have usurped the rights to property. Otherwise, there is no difference

 

[rupol2000]

Food, housing, healthcare, and education, a job, all of that is a right.

Do not confuse rights with coercions

Slaves too, taught to obey and forced to work

 

[rupol2000]

If slaves sucked dick to the Bolsheviks, they would declare the right to suck dick

 

[BlackSand]

I love that. Here let me show you something...

NO WAGE LABOR = NO PAYING CONSUMERS = NO MARKETS = NO CAPITALISM = SOCIALISM = HIGH COMMUNISM.

Communists love technology. Bring it on.

​

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You don't have anything to worry about anyway ...
I grow trees and you would starve to death just waiting to get paid ...

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[Biff_Poindexter]

Talk about how there are too many people in China to provide them with work. According to your logic, there should be 2 billion unemployed

Unemployment is worse in China bro.....

 

[Red Front]

Your use of terms of authority to describe private property owners.
Your sense of entitlement.
Your addiction to central authority. Which is extremely ironic.
All humorous.

Terms of authority describe not just the owners of "private property" or more specifically, the means of production, but the exploiters of human labor for private profits (monetary gain). They're not much better than a fief-lord or little dictators. No one is inherently entitled to own property, much less private property, that can be used to exploit others. A community can recognize the right of its members to own property, while also prohibiting the use of "property" for exploitative means. So a property that is the means of production in a socialist society is always owned collectively by the community. It's never the "private property" of one individual. The democratic socialist state acts as a manager and planner of the economy and the means of production.

What's the state? A social apparatus organized by the people, to manage its large-scale socioeconomic and civil affairs and projects. It's a managerial instrument and source of order.

Communism demolishes the state. Communism is stateless, classless, and without the need for money. Socialism is the process that leads to high communism. Communism isn't born until the consumer has complete control over the means of production. That only occurs with very advanced technology.

What's more ironic is the fact that you pretend that only the state is a central authority and yet see no problem with the centralized authority of private business enterprises. At least in a democratic government that isn't at war (most socialist countries are encircled by capitalist powers, sanctioned, attacked, invaded..etc), we have a lot more democracy, and representation, than in a private for-profit enterprise. When was the last time you participated in an election at work? I've never voted for anything at work, I'm simply told what to do like a slave. No freedom and I have no power or say over what I produce. Everything I produce remains with the capitalist exploiter and king. The fief-lord employer pays me $100 and yet I produce $1000 worth of products. In a socialist society, what the worker produces is more under his or her control.

I don't sell my labor power (i.e. my life), to a capitalist out of free choice. In a capitalist system, I'm either a capitalist, with capital (most people don't have the capital to be capitalists), or you're a member of the working-class. Working class people have to sell their lives to a capitalist, eight, twelve, sixteen hours daily. This silly idea that anyone can become a capitalists (a little fief-lord), is delusional. Should we even be aspiring to become capitalists? Is that really healthy and good for society? No not really.

Socialism is the future, it's what will allow humanity to produce everything it consumes without wage labor. Technology will in the not too distant future, replace a significant % of wage labor, and that will force humanity to adopt a mode of production that is for the purpose of meeting human needs. The new "bottom line" won't be private profits but producing the goods that we consume. Technology will greatly facilitate the establishment of a socialist system of production, no longer dependent upon capitalists or the pursuit of profits. Communists, we're not concerned with the elimination of wage labor. We welcome advanced technology, because it reduces all human labor. It allows us to produce everything that we consume, with less drudgery, work.

 

[Red Front]

Unemployment is worse in China bro.....

China isn't really a socialist country, it decided to become the manufacturing hub of the United States and it unnecessarily adopted markets. Most Chinese don't have sufficient access to healthcare, an education, or adequate housing. China is a mutant ninja turtle.

 

[TNHarley]

Communism demolishes the state. Communism is stateless, classless, and without the need for money.

Will never happen on a scale bigger than a community. Ever.
Its a dreamland. Your retarded hero Marx never considered human nature in his bullshit.
You would figure after all these years a commie would actually start thinking and considering history.
Alas, here we are. Void of thoughtful commies.
You will have to have the state lead you in your pipedream "revolution" Thats where your addiction to authority comes into play.
Ironic, no?

 

[BlackSand]

You will have to have the state lead you in your pipedream "revolution" Thats where your addiction to authority comes into play.

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Precisely ... And also a reason it is called Marxism.
Engels was the brains of the two, and Marx was just the populist and politician peddling the bullshit required.

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