No frivolous gun control laws would have stopped this...

[Ray From Cleveland]

No you dumb F, the point is that laws don't guarantee results.

Maybe this will make clear how silly your arguments are...
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

listen dude, if you don't like this country and our laws, GTF out of it. We don't need or want you.

Do you follow the news? Maybe you haven't noticed, but children are getting gunned down regularly. Yeah you need help.

then arm the teachers and put metal detectors at every door, and listen to neighbors and other kids when they say that someone is acting weird. this is mostly happening because we are scared of offending someone by accusing them of being mentally ill.

The armed security at this last shooting was shot and 10 kids died. They don't do any of those things in countries with strong gun control and they don't have a school shooting problem.

He was armed? Link please.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No you dumb F, the point is that laws don't guarantee results.

Maybe this will make clear how silly your arguments are...
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

You do realize The Onion is satire, don't you?

Obviously, it is doing a great job of mocking many of your ridiculous arguments....

Actually it's doing a great job making you look like a fool trying to use it as evidence of something.

How are OH crime rates looking? You have plenty of concealed carry right? Murder up...
Ohio Crime Rates 1960 - 2016

Crime sure did go down after we got some gun control though didn't it?

Moving the goal posts once again.

 

[Markle]

I wouldn't go that far. The NRA was a sensible organization up until the 1970's... when it supported common sense gun laws.

Then the nuts like LaPeirre took over.

This was also about the time that hunting started falling out of fashion as a sport, so the gun industry realized that the home protection market was the way to go.

And, now we have common sense gun laws. How many more common sense gun laws do we need before they go beyond common sense and accomplish nothing?

Perhaps hunting has fallen out of favor where you live, but it certainly has not where I live, the panhandle of Florida.

As you know, personal protection has worked and worked well. More guns have equaled fewer murders and violent crimes. Why is that a problem for you? Why do you demand more murders and violent crimes?

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

I have no such hesitation and I'm not law enforcement.

Please show us your reliable source and link proving your point about 21 percent of LE were murdered with their own service weapon.

 

[Rustic]

A law requiring gun owners to store and secure weapons in a standardized method or face civil and even criminal charges for failure to do so may have had an impact in this latest school shooting incident and would have had absolutely nothing to do with gun ownership rights.

Lol
You do realize more people are killed by bathtubs?

For most people, baths have a use. Evidently not for you.

Lol
I use the shower not a bath tub, bathtubs are for women and old people.

 

[Rustic]

Ok,. if you want to talk about individual crimes, lets do that. How about the boston marathon bombers? the Orlando gay night club shooter. We still don't know much about the Vegas guy, why is it taking so long for the authorities to find out who he was and why he did it? are they hiding something?

But you brought up nation by nation crime stats, that includes all violent acts, and in the USA most of those violent crimes are committed either by minorities or in big cities or both. mostly both.

Yes they are in gangs, just like most the violent crimes are done by gangs in every other country. You have no real point to your claim.

are you going to take guns away from gangs? if so, how?

Well stronger gun laws would slow our gun owners from constantly arming them:
Criminals steal more than 237,000 guns from legal American gun owners every year

Lots of legal gun ownership guarantees lots of illegal gun use.

your desperation is making you look very stupid. might be time to call it and go lick your wounds. you lost this one big time.

237,000 guns stolen from gun owners and directly into the hands of criminals. Yeah you are arming the gangs.

...and still not the firearms fault. Shit for brains

 

[Rustic]

no, but we are talking about national statistics. Sounds like this kid was a nutcase. Dimitri--------maybe he was a minority. Russian, Serb, ?

Was the florida school shooter a minority? How about our worst mass shooter ever from the Vegas shooting?

Ok,. if you want to talk about individual crimes, lets do that. How about the boston marathon bombers? the Orlando gay night club shooter. We still don't know much about the Vegas guy, why is it taking so long for the authorities to find out who he was and why he did it? are they hiding something?

But you brought up nation by nation crime stats, that includes all violent acts, and in the USA most of those violent crimes are committed either by minorities or in big cities or both. mostly both.

Yes they are in gangs, just like most the violent crimes are done by gangs in every other country. You have no real point to your claim.

are you going to take guns away from gangs? if so, how?

Well stronger gun laws would slow our gun owners from constantly arming them:
Criminals steal more than 237,000 guns from legal American gun owners every year

Lots of legal gun ownership guarantees lots of illegal gun use.

Someone else’s Firearm ownership is 100% personal, none of your fucking business, none of my fucking business and certainly none of the federal government’s business.

The fact remains you can’t get any more personal than firearm ownership…

 

[Rustic]

No you dumb F, the point is that laws don't guarantee results.

Maybe this will make clear how silly your arguments are...
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

listen dude, if you don't like this country and our laws, GTF out of it. We don't need or want you.

Do you follow the news? Maybe you haven't noticed, but children are getting gunned down regularly. Yeah you need help.

then arm the teachers and put metal detectors at every door, and listen to neighbors and other kids when they say that someone is acting weird. this is mostly happening because we are scared of offending someone by accusing them of being mentally ill.

The armed security at this last shooting was shot and 10 kids died. They don't do any of those things in countries with strong gun control and they don't have a school shooting problem.

Like I said firearm ownership is 100% personal… None of your fucking business

 

[Rustic]

I wouldn't go that far. The NRA was a sensible organization up until the 1970's... when it supported common sense gun laws.

Then the nuts like LaPeirre took over.

This was also about the time that hunting started falling out of fashion as a sport, so the gun industry realized that the home protection market was the way to go.

And, now we have common sense gun laws. How many more common sense gun laws do we need before they go beyond common sense and accomplish nothing?

Perhaps hunting has fallen out of favor where you live, but it certainly has not where I live, the panhandle of Florida.

As you know, personal protection has worked and worked well. More guns have equaled fewer murders and violent crimes. Why is that a problem for you? Why do you demand more murders and violent crimes?

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

I don’t think I want to be a victim and depend on a fucking collective. So shut the fuck up

 

[Skull Pilot]

You finally said something that makes sense

Dad should definitely be charged. We need to go after anyone who arms these killers, they clearly need an incentive to be more responsible with their arms.

Didn't the courts overturn a law that gun owners needed to secure their weapons (I think it was in D.C.). The courts said you can't tell a man what to do inside his castle. So I don't think holding Dad accountable will fly in the long run.
TBH, I think the Dad will suffer for the rest of his life about this. Imagine if it were your kid who did this. It must be nearly insufferable.

You do have a point. If a kid gets into the liquor cabinet at home, gets drunk, and grabs his car getting into a fatal accident, you don't blame the parents because the kid stole booze.

But the parents are still responsible for the acts of their minor children

No. In most states, parents are responsible for all malicious or willful property damage done by their children. The parent is obligated only to financially compensate the party harmed by his or her child's actions.

Regardless of that the father should still be held culpable as his kid used his guns to murder 10 people.

It is not difficult to secure firearms.

 

[JoeB131]

This is true. Look how well we did with totally banning recreational narcotics in this country.

How many recreational drug users are in your life?

I don't know any.

 

[JoeB131]

And, now we have common sense gun laws. How many more common sense gun laws do we need before they go beyond common sense and accomplish nothing?

Perhaps hunting has fallen out of favor where you live, but it certainly has not where I live, the panhandle of Florida.

Okay, guy, I'm sure it's still popular where people's family trees don't fork, but it's been on the decline nationally for some time.

The gun industry realizes this, which is why they are pushing guns into homes and marketing towards the "super-owners", the 3% of the population who own 50% of the guns. Much like the alcohol industry focuses on the drunks.

 

[Redfish]

here's your opportunity libs and dems.

give us the wording of a gun law that would prevent school shootings. Give us the specific language that you want congress to put in a bill.

If you are unable to do that, STFU and go away.

 

[Redfish]

Dad should definitely be charged. We need to go after anyone who arms these killers, they clearly need an incentive to be more responsible with their arms.

Didn't the courts overturn a law that gun owners needed to secure their weapons (I think it was in D.C.). The courts said you can't tell a man what to do inside his castle. So I don't think holding Dad accountable will fly in the long run.
TBH, I think the Dad will suffer for the rest of his life about this. Imagine if it were your kid who did this. It must be nearly insufferable.

You do have a point. If a kid gets into the liquor cabinet at home, gets drunk, and grabs his car getting into a fatal accident, you don't blame the parents because the kid stole booze.

But the parents are still responsible for the acts of their minor children

No. In most states, parents are responsible for all malicious or willful property damage done by their children. The parent is obligated only to financially compensate the party harmed by his or her child's actions.

Regardless of that the father should still be held culpable as his kid used his guns to murder 10 people.

It is not difficult to secure firearms.

I agree with that. parents should be responsible for the acts of their minor children. The problem with that is that many in the inner cities don't know who their parents are.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Good job in never letting a good tragedy go to waste!

Gotta fight fire with fire.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

So, what you're saying is that limiting magazine capacity is a terrible idea if you want to promote self-defense?

 

[Redfish]

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

So, what you're saying is that limiting magazine capacity is a terrible idea if you want to promote self-defense?

'
see post #392, give us the wording of a gun control law that you think would work.

 

[Flash]

[QU

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

As a firearm instructor I would agree with you.

However, there is not proficiency requirement for the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights.

The problem with having a proficiency requirement is that becomes a tool for the asshole Liberals to control who is allowed to enjoy that right. You can't trust Liberals with your liberties.

Just look at the commie states that have strict restrictions on concealed carry as an example.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

[QU

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

As a firearm instructor I would agree with you.

However, there is not proficiency requirement for the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights.

The problem with having a proficiency requirement is that becomes a tool for the asshole Liberals to control who is allowed to enjoy that right. You can't trust Liberals with your liberties.

Just look at the commie states that have strict restrictions on concealed carry as an example.

And, in your expert opinion, as a firearm instructor, is it a good idea to limit magazine capacity, particularly in home defense scenarios, given the stress and proficiency considerations of such a scenario?

 

[Flash]

[QU

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

As a firearm instructor I would agree with you.

However, there is not proficiency requirement for the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights.

The problem with having a proficiency requirement is that becomes a tool for the asshole Liberals to control who is allowed to enjoy that right. You can't trust Liberals with your liberties.

Just look at the commie states that have strict restrictions on concealed carry as an example.

And, in your expert opinion, as a firearm instructor, is it a good idea to limit magazine capacity, particularly in home defense scenarios, given the stress and proficiency considerations of such a scenario?

Nope. More firepower the better.

More firepower the better chance of success.

 

[Flopper]

I wouldn't go that far. The NRA was a sensible organization up until the 1970's... when it supported common sense gun laws.

Then the nuts like LaPeirre took over.

This was also about the time that hunting started falling out of fashion as a sport, so the gun industry realized that the home protection market was the way to go.

And, now we have common sense gun laws. How many more common sense gun laws do we need before they go beyond common sense and accomplish nothing?

Perhaps hunting has fallen out of favor where you live, but it certainly has not where I live, the panhandle of Florida.

As you know, personal protection has worked and worked well. More guns have equaled fewer murders and violent crimes. Why is that a problem for you? Why do you demand more murders and violent crimes?

I think carrying a gun makes you fell safe. I know it did for me years ago. However, I suspect that feeling safe has little to do with being safe. Having a gun and being able to make a spit second decision to use it and do so effectively when your're scared shirtless is something totally different.

Trained, experience law enforcement officers often fair poorly in emergency situations. I saw a study that said 21 percent of law enforcement officers killed with a handgun were shot with their own service weapon. They average a 20 percent hit ratio in armed confrontations, meaning that only 20 percent of shots fired hit the intended target. And these guys are professionals.

I have no such hesitation and I'm not law enforcement.

Please show us your reliable source and link proving your point about 21 percent of LE were murdered with their own service weapon.

It was 12%, not 21%. I reversed the digits
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf

If you truly have no hesitation when drawing a gun, I doubt you're representative of most gun owners. Less than 7% of all gun owners have used a gun to defend themselves, their family or possessions. It also appears most gun owners are not very active in maintaining their skills, an occasional trip to a gun range or a yearly hunting trip. For people to respond properly in life threatening situations, it takes skill and repetitive training, something few gun owners have. And when those situations involve innocent bystanders as in schools and shopping center, the untrained, inexperience gun owner is likely to do more harm than good.
1. The demographics of gun ownership