No Special Master As DOJ Drops Bombshell 40 Page Ruling Obstruction By Trump Team

[Meathead]

Have your whiny little baby fit. It just shows us you see the writing on the wall.

I try to avoid talking trash. I am not always successful.

 

[Faun]

I don't think you get it, the GSA would be violating the law, and the DOJ would be raiding the GSA personnel who boxed and transported such doccuments, unless unless it was ok to do so-oops View attachment 689638

It's not illegal to move classified documents out of the White House.

 

[postman]

Secondly, it isn’t null. It just isn’t formally entered and able to be recognized until it’s filed.

And this wouldn't equally apply to declassification?
Not able to be recognized.

It’s not an act. If he declassifies a classified document in his possession, it is declassified.

It's still a presidential act, like pardoning, or nominating judges, or any of his other executive powers under the constitution.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Among the most incriminating details in the government filing is a photograph, showing a number of files labeled “Top Secret” with bright red or yellow cover sheets, spread out over a carpet. Those files were found inside a container in Trump’s office, according to the court filing. A close examination of one of the cover sheets in the photo shows a marking for “HCS,” a government acronym for systems used to protect intelligence gathered from secret human sources.


The 36-page filing also reveals, for the first time, the text of a written assurance given to the Justice Department by Trump’s “custodian of records” on June 3. It says Trump’s team had done a thorough search for any classified material in response to a subpoena and had turned over any relevant documents.

Trump team may have hidden, moved classified papers, Justice Dept. says — The Washington Post

In response to the Justice Department filing, lawyers for Donald Trump say prosecutors “significantly mischaracterized” some of their interactions with Trump’s representatives.

apple.news

What kind of shit is the FBI making up, now?

 

[postman]

Utter nonsense, Welshy. If the president doesn't inform anyone he declassified a document, how does anyone know it's been declassified?

If the president pardons somebody, but doesn't tell anyone, that person was never pardoned.
If the president nominates somebody to be a judge, but doesn't tell anyone, that person never becomes a judge.

How is the act of declassification any different?

For presidential acts to become official, he has to notify the people who actually to the ministerial acts to make them official.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

What kind of shit is the FBI making up, now?

And now we have come full circle, every other tactic tried by Trump and his followers have failed...so now they are recycling the old ones

 

[Seymour Flops]

I don't know if reasonable doubt can be reached merely by Trump saying he did so. I don't think it's particularly reasonable to think that he actually wanted all those documents he had squirreled away to become public information, which is what declassification would actually mean.

Not at all. Declassified doesn't mean the documents must be released to the public. It means that after that there's no crime of mishandling classified if you take them home. Not even if the DOJ has selected a man and then desperately searched for a crime to pin on him.

These were top secret government documents including human sources and spy satellite data. Disclosure of the information in these documents (which seems most likely to be contemporary information, not historical) would be basically unprecedented.

Who was it disclosed to and when?

Doing so without notification of anyone until after the raid seems a little too convenient to be true.

The DoJ filing last night indicates Trump and his lawyers did not tell anyone that these were declassified documents. Not when they sent them to NARA. Not when Jay Bratt picked them up in June. As far as I can tell, Trump has not submitted to any actual authority that these documents were at all declassified.

Trump WAS the sole authority when he declassified them. Even if he never told a soul, which I doubt, the legal presumption would be that he intended to declassify them rather than violate laws about handling classified material.

But as others have pointed out, even if we accept they were declassified, that still does not get Trump out of trouble. The laws that the DoJ cited as justification for the search do not require classified data. Trump still was given a subpoena for all documents bearing classified markings and failed to produce all these documents. That's a pretty significant legal problem.

I'd need to see the subpoena to judge that. I think proving intent, and getting indictments, given the Hillary doctrines, will be impossible.

There are other relevant privacy laws that the president cannot waive a magic wand with.

Just so. That's why he could declassify documents never intended for release to the public.

 

[BackAgain]

And this wouldn't equally apply to declassification?
Not able to be recognized.

It's still a presidential act, like pardoning, or nominating judges, or any of his other executive powers under the constitution.

You’re entitled to believe whatever you wish. But nothing in Marbury addresses this. Nothing.

 

[postman]

It's not illegal to move classified documents out of the White House.

Actually the GSA would be in trouble, if they had been informed that the boxes they never saw the contents of, in fact contained classified materials.

They would then have to treat them differently than boxes with Melania's shoes.

 

[postman]

Not at all. Declassified doesn't mean the documents must be released to the public.

Actually it does. Any record in the hands of the government that isn't classified, or constitute private information like HIPPA or Privacy Act documents, have to be disclosed to anyone who asks for them.

FOIA.

(with limited executive work product, ongoing investigation etc exceptions)

 

[postman]

You’re entitled to believe whatever you wish. But nothing in Marbury addresses this. Nothing.

Marbury said it ain't official till the paperwork to make it official is done.

Trump would need somebody to carry out the paperwork to declassify the materials, before it's official.

 

[WEATHER53]

They've got him this time, alright!

They got him big time for doing what they have concocted into a crime. They are playing “what if” again in yet another salacious attempt to prevent a person they know will beat them from even appearing on the ballot

 

[Rye Catcher]

Yes. I did.

Nope. Once the president has declassified them, they aren’t classified anymore. And the documents are the property of the United States with or without regard to their status as being classified.

I agree. He is not the owner. But then again, I never said he was.

But feel free to continue arguing things I haven’t discussed.

Try to keep some common sense, along with the law. Read the link above, the one you seem to mock and didn't comprehend.

As to the common sense, all of the classified documents and especially Top Secret and above cannot be declassified to the Public. Nor can any other document, or the record or testimony under oath in a criminal grand jury.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Show us the FBI's evidence. Let's see it.

 

[BackAgain]

Marbury said it ain't official till the paperwork to make it official is done.

Trump would need somebody to carry out the paperwork to declassify the materials, before it's official.

You may keep repeating your misguided and ignorant belief.

 

[Marener]

Not at all. Declassified doesn't mean the documents must be released to the public. It means that after that there's no crime of mishandling classified if you take them home. Not even if the DOJ has selected a man and then desperately searched for a crime to pin on him.

Yes, it does. Declassified documents must be disclosed at the request of people due to a little law called the Freedom of Information Act.

Who was it disclosed to and when?

It would be disclosed if they were declassified. If you asked the government to provide you a copy of any of them, they would be required legally to turn them over to you.

Trump WAS the sole authority when he declassified them. Even if he never told a soul, which I doubt, the legal presumption would be that he intended to declassify them rather than violate laws about handling classified material.

I don't know. This idea that Trump can declassify something without telling anyone seems to be legally shaky. Trump also had the ability to pardon anyone, even preemptively. Take a hypothetical, Guy Reffitt was a Capitol Rioter and sentenced to 7 years. What if Trump came out and said he pardoned Reffitt and just didn't tell anyone. Do you think the court would take that seriously? I doubt it.

I don't think there is any legal presumption that these documents are declassified. It's like finding a gun. It's loaded until proven otherwise. Those documents are classified until proven otherwise.

I'd need to see the subpoena to judge that. I think proving intent, and getting an inductments, given the Hillary doctrines will be impossible

Good news. The subpoena was just revealed in the latest DoJ filing. It's on page 47.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Proving intent is not impossible. For starters, some of these documents were found in one of Trump's drawers in his office next to his passport. Many of them were found in the storage room which their lawyers said they searched thoroughly. It's not just one page. It's hundreds of them. They have bright cover sheets that are hard to miss. This is far different than Clinton.

Just so. That's why he could declassify documents never intended for release to the public.

I think those same privacy laws would prevent Trump from having those documents in his closet too.

 

[postman]

You may keep repeating your misguided and ignorant belief.

Name any other power of the presidency that propagates instantaneously.

The president as commander in chief, can't even order a nuclear strike, until other ministerial acts are carried out.

 

[HaShev]

way too many words to be a useful meme

Caught you again, ad hominems, excuses, avoidance.....none of these replies adresses your shame NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS FEEL.
I rest my case, the media programed & made you guys sociopaths.

 

[HaShev]

Wrong.

No more than if you mailed a letter containing illegal drugs, or other contraband, the Post Office would not be violating the law by delivering them.

The post office asks you if there is flamables explosives etc, they will not box up something illegal, the GSA is not allowed to box up and deliver unlawful docs in the same manner.
And your comment about the Post office is flawed, they too have corrupt employees, years ago one which found it amusing to remove a
Jewish Exponant paper from my father's envelope and replace it with Nazis literature.
There goes your Post office would not do anything illegal analogy. There's bad actors everywhere, and itcs just a coincidence they all connect back to Biden's associates.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Caught you again, ad hominems, excuses, avoidance.....none of these replies adresses your shane NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS FEEL.
I rest my case, the media programed & made you guys sociopaths.

can you tell us more about this shane you feel and why you think it is normal?