no tax return, no place on ballot

[Ray From Cleveland]

Minimum wage was started so employers could not take advantage of desperate employees. Of course back then we didn't have nearly the social programs we have today, nor the opportunities. Today, most starting jobs pay more than minimum because not many people will work for that kind of money depending on the job. Minimum wage workers are about 4% of our workforce.

Immigrants will work for that kind of money. That's why there is such a market for their labor.

Correct, and that's why we need a wall to stop them from coming here.

there is no wall, and will never be a wall.

Trump settled for a fence barrier duplicating portions of the old fence - you know, the one THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK STOPPING IMMIGRANTS -

You don't know what he settled on because it hasn't been settled yet. Trump has input from the border patrol, engineers and our military. Unlike Hussein who never even owned a hotdog stand, Trump is very well versed when it comes to structures.

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

 

[pknopp]

"Your very own"....that's really stupid.

Banks Repaid Fed Bailout With Other Fed Money: Government Report | HuffPost

You do know your article is from 2012, don't you? That's seven years ago, very post recession.

The claims it was paid back are even older than that. Nothing has changed since the post. We lost big time on the bail outs and then were lied to.

It's funny because it was the Obama administration that lied to us but here you are defending them.

We shouldn't have loaned the banks money, we should have bought shares and owned and then separated them.

There are many things we should have done differently.

Yeah, like suing banks in the name of racism, to make sub-prime loans. That would be the top of my list of things we should not have done.

That was a quid pro quo. The banks got the politicians to relax regulations and then made loans the politicians wanted and backed.

 

[pknopp]

"Your very own"....that's really stupid.

Banks Repaid Fed Bailout With Other Fed Money: Government Report | HuffPost

You do know your article is from 2012, don't you? That's seven years ago, very post recession.

The claims it was paid back are even older than that. Nothing has changed since the post. We lost big time on the bail outs and then were lied to.

It's funny because it was the Obama administration that lied to us but here you are defending them.

I'm not defending anybody. I'm a believer in the words of James Madison:

"I canot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Now when you insist that the loans were not really paid back (and they were) I am merely pointing out your false allegation. So you respond by posting a seven year old article to make your point. Well guess what? Everybody has been doing much better since 2012. I'm sure every dime of borrowed money was paid back.

I provided more than simply my opinion as to why they were not. You can counter that argument or not.

And I provided a report from one of your very own, the Communist News Network that says the loans were repaid.

Now as for your article from seven years ago, it was the last one written on the subject. I checked. Even though several news outlets reported the same thing, their single source was the same as well.

The government was the source.

 

[pknopp]

Immigrants will work for that kind of money. That's why there is such a market for their labor.

Correct, and that's why we need a wall to stop them from coming here.

there is no wall, and will never be a wall.

Trump settled for a fence barrier duplicating portions of the old fence - you know, the one THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK STOPPING IMMIGRANTS -

You don't know what he settled on because it hasn't been settled yet. Trump has input from the border patrol, engineers and our military. Unlike Hussein who never even owned a hotdog stand, Trump is very well versed when it comes to structures.

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

Which isn't being paid for.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

sounds good to me -

Trump’s tax returns required under new California election law

Who cares, he isn’t going to win there anyway. I swear, you liberals get boners over the dumbest things.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Correct, and that's why we need a wall to stop them from coming here.

there is no wall, and will never be a wall.

Trump settled for a fence barrier duplicating portions of the old fence - you know, the one THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK STOPPING IMMIGRANTS -

You don't know what he settled on because it hasn't been settled yet. Trump has input from the border patrol, engineers and our military. Unlike Hussein who never even owned a hotdog stand, Trump is very well versed when it comes to structures.

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

Which isn't being paid for.

I have no idea what you mean by that. The money was appropriated by Congress for the military spending before Trump even brought up the idea.

 

[pknopp]

there is no wall, and will never be a wall.

Trump settled for a fence barrier duplicating portions of the old fence - you know, the one THAT DIDNT FUCKING WORK STOPPING IMMIGRANTS -

You don't know what he settled on because it hasn't been settled yet. Trump has input from the border patrol, engineers and our military. Unlike Hussein who never even owned a hotdog stand, Trump is very well versed when it comes to structures.

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

Which isn't being paid for.

I have no idea what you mean by that. The money was appropriated by Congress for the military spending before Trump even brought up the idea.

I mean what I said. It's not being paid for. Something Trump is known for.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You do know your article is from 2012, don't you? That's seven years ago, very post recession.

The claims it was paid back are even older than that. Nothing has changed since the post. We lost big time on the bail outs and then were lied to.

It's funny because it was the Obama administration that lied to us but here you are defending them.

I'm not defending anybody. I'm a believer in the words of James Madison:

"I canot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Now when you insist that the loans were not really paid back (and they were) I am merely pointing out your false allegation. So you respond by posting a seven year old article to make your point. Well guess what? Everybody has been doing much better since 2012. I'm sure every dime of borrowed money was paid back.

I provided more than simply my opinion as to why they were not. You can counter that argument or not.

And I provided a report from one of your very own, the Communist News Network that says the loans were repaid.

Now as for your article from seven years ago, it was the last one written on the subject. I checked. Even though several news outlets reported the same thing, their single source was the same as well.

The government was the source.

No, the Wall Street Journal was the source, and it's a pay site so you can't read it unless subscribed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You don't know what he settled on because it hasn't been settled yet. Trump has input from the border patrol, engineers and our military. Unlike Hussein who never even owned a hotdog stand, Trump is very well versed when it comes to structures.

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

Which isn't being paid for.

I have no idea what you mean by that. The money was appropriated by Congress for the military spending before Trump even brought up the idea.

I mean what I said. It's not being paid for. Something Trump is known for.

Try to follow this:

Money was previously appropriated for military funding.

Trump is taking money from that fund that was appropriated and paying for the wall.

Any other questions?

 

[pknopp]

The claims it was paid back are even older than that. Nothing has changed since the post. We lost big time on the bail outs and then were lied to.

It's funny because it was the Obama administration that lied to us but here you are defending them.

I'm not defending anybody. I'm a believer in the words of James Madison:

"I canot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Now when you insist that the loans were not really paid back (and they were) I am merely pointing out your false allegation. So you respond by posting a seven year old article to make your point. Well guess what? Everybody has been doing much better since 2012. I'm sure every dime of borrowed money was paid back.

I provided more than simply my opinion as to why they were not. You can counter that argument or not.

And I provided a report from one of your very own, the Communist News Network that says the loans were repaid.

Now as for your article from seven years ago, it was the last one written on the subject. I checked. Even though several news outlets reported the same thing, their single source was the same as well.

The government was the source.

No, the Wall Street Journal was the source, and it's a pay site so you can't read it unless subscribed.

No, it's from the governments report. It's right in my link.

 

[pknopp]

Not so much in paying for them though.

He is paying for them. He is securing funds from our military budget.

Which isn't being paid for.

I have no idea what you mean by that. The money was appropriated by Congress for the military spending before Trump even brought up the idea.

I mean what I said. It's not being paid for. Something Trump is known for.

Try to follow this:

Money was previously appropriated for military funding.

Trump is taking money from that fund that was appropriated and paying for the wall.

Any other questions?

We didn't pay for that funding. Fact.

 

[NotYourBody]

Minimum wage was started so employers could not take advantage of desperate employees. Of course back then we didn't have nearly the social programs we have today, nor the opportunities. Today, most starting jobs pay more than minimum because not many people will work for that kind of money depending on the job. Minimum wage workers are about 4% of our workforce.

Immigrants will work for that kind of money. That's why there is such a market for their labor.

Correct, and that's why we need a wall to stop them from coming here.

Wall won't stop them. They go over, under and through.

 

[daveman]

Democrats love creating problems like this. It costs God knows how many millions of dollars to fight this through the court system only to eventually be overturned. The Democrats know this quite well, but hell, it's not their money, so why should they care?

These political stunts are getting too costly. Get rid of all Democrats in power and we can end these little antics of theirs.

And we can get rid of the Corporate total control of the government as well where the phrase "For the People, by the People" have become a laughing stock. Figure out how to do that and you can have my support.

Prior to Trump, we had the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. DumBama and many other Presidents saddled them with more choking regulations than you can shake a stick at.

There is no corporate control of our government because corporations are too small of a vote to cater to. It's all in your head. If corporations have control of our government, they are doing a pretty lousy job at it.

For them, they are doing a bangup job. They get all the social benefits, their workers are on Welfare so they don't have to pay them enough to live on, they don't pay a single dime in taxes, the top levels have almost completely tax free lives and live like Kings and Queens. And when they want something, they have enough clout to send in their army of Lobbyists to purcha.....er...... convince the government to give them what they want. What you mean is, the Government is doing a lousy job for you and I and others like us. But they are doing a bang up job for the people that they actually work for. Hell, they don't even have to write the bills, the Corporations do that for them and the Legislators don't even bother to read them when they pass them.

You are under the naive idea that your vote actually means something. It doesn't. It's there to make you feel good. You don't get a choice except which old white hair old geezer gets the nod that's already been predetermined before hand. Your Representatives just go through the motions to make you feel good and so you won't wake up one day and figure out the scam.

Yes, we do have the power to change things by voting. But first we would have to come out of the friggin coma we are in as a group. It's a group coma sprinkled with magical dust. But, just remember, it's always the other side that's that way, never our side.

You bring up a good point: our vote don't count. So next election and following elections, make sure you don't vote. You show them. Not only that, try to discourage all your friends and family that think like you from voting too. Do your part I always say.

Employers don't base their employee pay on what government gives out. They base it on the going market. If they can get people to work for eight bucks an hour, that's what they'll pay. If they can't find anybody for eight bucks an hour, they raise their offer to nine, if no bites, ten, and it goes on from there. If they get plenty of people to apply for ten bucks an hour, they drop the rate to nine. That's how it works in this country.

Government doesn't give corporations anything. All they can do is take less from them. If you take all the lazy and poor in this country and put them on an island somewhere, nobody would miss them, in fact, society and country would benefit. Take all the rich and corporations and do the same thing, the country collapses.

Or you can regulate the Corporations and tell them if they won't pay their workers a living wage maybe they shouldn't be in business. You know, the way that a small business is forced to operate.

Oooh! Maybe you should put the evil business owners in re-education camps! You totalitarians like to do that, right?

 

[daveman]

Some retailers have gone one step further. They require you to allow them to scan your ID to purchase tobacco products. Companies like Walgreens, Alta and a few others. I refused and told them they could just get my birth date off my drivers license visually. I was told by Walgreens (in a nice voice) that I didn't have to shop there. At Alta, I was told (in a very nasty way) that I didn't have to shop there. Both of them said it was the law. It's not the law. There is information in the strip of your DL that is none of their business and it's an invasion of privacy.

Right. But you support a state forcing a presidential candidate to show their tax returns to the public, and you have no problem with that.

No, wait, it's only OTHER people's privacy that should be invaded.

I am a Democrat because I believe that we should take our noses out of other people's bedrooms. I say we move the noses to their banks and storage sheds and scout troops, and so forth.

 

[daveman]

And you can pretend unicorns will fart healthcare. What you want is a failure.

I can tell you've never been treated by the VA.

There are occasions an airplane falls from the sky. That does not mean airflight is a failure. We need to hold those who run the VA to a different standard than what we do. I will not argue otherwise but then again, there should be far fewer being treated.

There should be fewer being treated...but you want to put the whole country under the VA or similar government-run healthcare?

Bernie lied to you. And you just ate it up.

People love Medicare. Go ahead, try and end it.

People hate Communism. Go ahead, try and force it on them.

If you are unable to actually address what I said, why not just move on?

Oh, I addressed it. Your unwillingness to acknowledge it has no bearing.

 

[daveman]

You must think most western democracies are communist.

You must not think at all.

Someone mentions Medicare and you talk about Communism. So, what Western Democracies who have a way more robust healthcare system than Medicare do you consider Communist? It's that simple.

Yeah, because the government forcing people to buy something under penalty of law, and taking other people's money by threat of force to help pay for it, is not at all totalitarian.

Yeah, you sure showed me, didn't you?

Ok, so you think pretty much all wesern democracies are communist.

Do you hate being forced to pay for potholes too?

Repairing potholes benefit society equally. Forcing one person to pay for another's healthcare is one benefiting at the disadvantage of another.

Leftists have always supported slavery. That's never changed.

 

[daveman]

Prior to Trump, we had the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. DumBama and many other Presidents saddled them with more choking regulations than you can shake a stick at.

There is no corporate control of our government because corporations are too small of a vote to cater to. It's all in your head. If corporations have control of our government, they are doing a pretty lousy job at it.

For them, they are doing a bangup job. They get all the social benefits, their workers are on Welfare so they don't have to pay them enough to live on, they don't pay a single dime in taxes, the top levels have almost completely tax free lives and live like Kings and Queens. And when they want something, they have enough clout to send in their army of Lobbyists to purcha.....er...... convince the government to give them what they want. What you mean is, the Government is doing a lousy job for you and I and others like us. But they are doing a bang up job for the people that they actually work for. Hell, they don't even have to write the bills, the Corporations do that for them and the Legislators don't even bother to read them when they pass them.

You are under the naive idea that your vote actually means something. It doesn't. It's there to make you feel good. You don't get a choice except which old white hair old geezer gets the nod that's already been predetermined before hand. Your Representatives just go through the motions to make you feel good and so you won't wake up one day and figure out the scam.

Yes, we do have the power to change things by voting. But first we would have to come out of the friggin coma we are in as a group. It's a group coma sprinkled with magical dust. But, just remember, it's always the other side that's that way, never our side.

You bring up a good point: our vote don't count. So next election and following elections, make sure you don't vote. You show them. Not only that, try to discourage all your friends and family that think like you from voting too. Do your part I always say.

Employers don't base their employee pay on what government gives out. They base it on the going market. If they can get people to work for eight bucks an hour, that's what they'll pay. If they can't find anybody for eight bucks an hour, they raise their offer to nine, if no bites, ten, and it goes on from there. If they get plenty of people to apply for ten bucks an hour, they drop the rate to nine. That's how it works in this country.

Government doesn't give corporations anything. All they can do is take less from them. If you take all the lazy and poor in this country and put them on an island somewhere, nobody would miss them, in fact, society and country would benefit. Take all the rich and corporations and do the same thing, the country collapses.

Or you can regulate the Corporations and tell them if they won't pay their workers a living wage maybe they shouldn't be in business. You know, the way that a small business is forced to operate.

Small businesses are like big businesses in what they pay. No difference. Until we no longer live in a free country, we don't force anybody to do anything in private matters. It's their concern--not governments. And if government doesn't want to give them welfare or food stamps, they have my approval to discontinue them.

A small business pays their fair share of taxes. They don't get the big loopholes. And they usually pay a higher wage and get the better workers than the corporates do. They also have a much lower profit margin. If they don't meet a certain profit then they can't take hat in hand to the Government and get help. They go out of business. No bailout, no extra tax breaks, nothing. Corporations should be treated exactly like small business. Either make it or go out of business. No Company should be too big to fail.

Does that apply to Democrat-controlled cities and states?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

That's a lie. I just covered this the other night. Odds are you saw it.

They paid back Tarp funds with other "loans" like Harp which were never paid back. They thought no one would notice.

Then post it again because I never saw it. This is your very own CNN reporting BTW.

"Your very own"....that's really stupid.

Banks Repaid Fed Bailout With Other Fed Money: Government Report | HuffPost

You do know your article is from 2012, don't you? That's seven years ago, very post recession.

The claims it was paid back are even older than that. Nothing has changed since the post. We lost big time on the bail outs and then were lied to.

It's funny because it was the Obama administration that lied to us but here you are defending them.

I'm not defending anybody. I'm a believer in the words of James Madison:

"I canot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Now when you insist that the loans were not really paid back (and they were) I am merely pointing out your false allegation. So you respond by posting a seven year old article to make your point. Well guess what? Everybody has been doing much better since 2012. I'm sure every dime of borrowed money was paid back.

He presents old (but it's proof anyway) data and you say he's wrong. You present newer proof yet it shows that YOU are wrong. And then it's Obama's fault. Wow, james Madison must be churning in the grave knowing you are quoting him on this and then misinterpreting him big time. Or Bigly time. The fact remains, not all have yet to pay back all bailout funds. The biggies have but there was more to it than just what the news covered. The smaller ones just weren't news worthy. And still aren't. And they'll probably get away with it.

 

[daveman]

You bring up a good point: our vote don't count. So next election and following elections, make sure you don't vote. You show them. Not only that, try to discourage all your friends and family that think like you from voting too. Do your part I always say.

Employers don't base their employee pay on what government gives out. They base it on the going market. If they can get people to work for eight bucks an hour, that's what they'll pay. If they can't find anybody for eight bucks an hour, they raise their offer to nine, if no bites, ten, and it goes on from there. If they get plenty of people to apply for ten bucks an hour, they drop the rate to nine. That's how it works in this country.

Government doesn't give corporations anything. All they can do is take less from them. If you take all the lazy and poor in this country and put them on an island somewhere, nobody would miss them, in fact, society and country would benefit. Take all the rich and corporations and do the same thing, the country collapses.

Or you can regulate the Corporations and tell them if they won't pay their workers a living wage maybe they shouldn't be in business. You know, the way that a small business is forced to operate.

Small businesses are like big businesses in what they pay. No difference. Until we no longer live in a free country, we don't force anybody to do anything in private matters. It's their concern--not governments. And if government doesn't want to give them welfare or food stamps, they have my approval to discontinue them.

A small business pays their fair share of taxes. They don't get the big loopholes. And they usually pay a higher wage and get the better workers than the corporates do. They also have a much lower profit margin. If they don't meet a certain profit then they can't take hat in hand to the Government and get help. They go out of business. No bailout, no extra tax breaks, nothing. Corporations should be treated exactly like small business. Either make it or go out of business. No Company should be too big to fail.

I've worked for small business most of my life. They do things the same way large companies do. In fact, larger companies pay better money for the same kind of work in most cases. When Commie Care started, most of the small businesses dropped their employee coverage while larger companies kept that benefit to their employees.

I created small businesses and one large one. All but one small one was successful. But, hey, you can't learn how to win if you don't know how to lose. Not once did I try and even get a loan much less a government bailout. And I paid better than the corporates did with better benefits. Including Health. I fully retired before the ACA so I can't compare it to that. But I can compare it to companies like Walmart who is a Corporate Welfare Queen and Slave Employer.

Would you have gladly submitted to the amount of government control you're advocating now?

Rhetorical question. We know you wouldn't.

 

[daveman]

For them, they are doing a bangup job. They get all the social benefits, their workers are on Welfare so they don't have to pay them enough to live on, they don't pay a single dime in taxes, the top levels have almost completely tax free lives and live like Kings and Queens. And when they want something, they have enough clout to send in their army of Lobbyists to purcha.....er...... convince the government to give them what they want. What you mean is, the Government is doing a lousy job for you and I and others like us. But they are doing a bang up job for the people that they actually work for. Hell, they don't even have to write the bills, the Corporations do that for them and the Legislators don't even bother to read them when they pass them.

You are under the naive idea that your vote actually means something. It doesn't. It's there to make you feel good. You don't get a choice except which old white hair old geezer gets the nod that's already been predetermined before hand. Your Representatives just go through the motions to make you feel good and so you won't wake up one day and figure out the scam.

Yes, we do have the power to change things by voting. But first we would have to come out of the friggin coma we are in as a group. It's a group coma sprinkled with magical dust. But, just remember, it's always the other side that's that way, never our side.

You bring up a good point: our vote don't count. So next election and following elections, make sure you don't vote. You show them. Not only that, try to discourage all your friends and family that think like you from voting too. Do your part I always say.

Employers don't base their employee pay on what government gives out. They base it on the going market. If they can get people to work for eight bucks an hour, that's what they'll pay. If they can't find anybody for eight bucks an hour, they raise their offer to nine, if no bites, ten, and it goes on from there. If they get plenty of people to apply for ten bucks an hour, they drop the rate to nine. That's how it works in this country.

Government doesn't give corporations anything. All they can do is take less from them. If you take all the lazy and poor in this country and put them on an island somewhere, nobody would miss them, in fact, society and country would benefit. Take all the rich and corporations and do the same thing, the country collapses.

Or you can regulate the Corporations and tell them if they won't pay their workers a living wage maybe they shouldn't be in business. You know, the way that a small business is forced to operate.

Really, what part of the Constitution allows the feds to dictate employment contracts.

.

You mean like a minimum wage? Sorry, you guys already lost that one.

Looks like the states are picking that one up. One at a time. When the people notice that the state next to theirs is living much better it tends to drive changes. Considering that the Red States are much poorer than the blue states, imagine when the rest of the states turn blue. What then?

People are leaving California and Illinois at a crazy pace. When all the states are blue and similarly hostile to normal people, where will they move? I know! You can make moving illegal.