North Charleston : Thug robs Waffle House; Concealed carry citizen shoots him. Crime solved!

[bucs90]

Have you got anything to show that most people with that piece of paper have a long history with guns, or that that history includes proper training?

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's true that cops have ADs. They handle guns every single day...sometimes in quick fashion and under stress. Worst of all....getting so comfortable and routine that a careless mistake happens.

Same reason cops and cab drivers are involved in wrecks so much more often than any average person. Being in a car 10 hours a day every day.

CWP holders are mostly very careful and responsible. Same as most cops. One difference....many CWP holders I know rarely take their gun out of its holster. A solid leather one and it stays there unless they go to the range. Cops are often mandated to take it out and unload it daily....and draw it at work for work reasosn. More frequent handling will mean more ADs. Just math.

 

[BULLDOG]

Have you got anything to show that most people with that piece of paper have a long history with guns, or that that history includes proper training?

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

 

[westwall]

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Untrue. The CDC (government last time I checked) publishes studies on the subject all the time. Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

 

[bucs90]

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Just curious...
What % of CCW holders are involved in an accidental or erroneous shooting?
What % of police officers are involved in an accidental or erroneous shooting?

I'm not really sure, but cops screwing up doesn't mean cc license holders are safe with a gun.

What leads you to believe they are unsafe?

No reason to believe they are safe.

You did not answer my question:
What leads you to believe they are unsafe?

No verifiable adequate training. You don't think that little cc course is adequate do you?

So, nothing concrete, just your blanket impression based on nothing more than your preconceptions.
Roger. Thanks.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Untrue. The CDC (government last time I checked) publishes studies on the subject all the time. Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

If the CDC is studying guns, it is a relatively recent event. Perhaps in the last year or two. If the CDC found that most CC license holders are well trained,that would certainly change my mind. You got a link to that, or any other credible source that backs up your claim that most do?

 

[westwall]

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's true that cops have ADs. They handle guns every single day...sometimes in quick fashion and under stress. Worst of all....getting so comfortable and routine that a careless mistake happens.

Same reason cops and cab drivers are involved in wrecks so much more often than any average person. Being in a car 10 hours a day every day.

CWP holders are mostly very careful and responsible. Same as most cops. One difference....many CWP holders I know rarely take their gun out of its holster. A solid leather one and it stays there unless they go to the range. Cops are often mandated to take it out and unload it daily....and draw it at work for work reasosn. More frequent handling will mean more ADs. Just math.

No, they have NEGLIGENT Discharges. HUUUUUUGE difference. And accident is the fault of the weapon, a negligent discharge is because the moron had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

 

[westwall]

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Untrue. The CDC (government last time I checked) publishes studies on the subject all the time. Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

If the CDC is studying guns, it is a relatively recent event. Perhaps in the last year or two. If the CDC found that most CC license holders are well trained,that would certainly change my mind. You got a link to that, or any other credible source that backs up your claim that most do?

They have been doing it for years. Yet another example of how you know nothing about the the subject.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

 

[westwall]

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

 

[BULLDOG]

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Untrue. The CDC (government last time I checked) publishes studies on the subject all the time. Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

If the CDC is studying guns, it is a relatively recent event. Perhaps in the last year or two. If the CDC found that most CC license holders are well trained,that would certainly change my mind. You got a link to that, or any other credible source that backs up your claim that most do?

They have been doing it for years. Yet another example of how you know nothing about the the subject.

Just checked.They started again 2 years ago Jan 2013. I was wrong about that and freely admit it. Now, perhaps you can show something to justify your claim that most are well trained.

 

[BULLDOG]

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

I already admitted I was wrong because I didn't know about the CDC recently studying guns, even though two years hasn't given them time to gather very much information. My only other claim is that I have seen nothing to make me believe most CC holders are well trained. You haven't produced anything to back up that claim. Perhaps you should quit until you can come up with something. I'll wait.

 

[westwall]

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

I already admitted I was wrong because I didn't know about the CDC recently studying guns, even though two years hasn't given them time to gather very much information. My only other claim is that I have seen nothing to make me believe most CC holders are well trained. You haven't produced anything to back up that claim. Perhaps you should quit until you can come up with something. I'll wait.

And you have not been able to come up with anything that says they're not. I have presented MSM reports that show an overwhelming number of police ND's as compared to CCW ND's and even you claim that law enforcement is well trained. The reports from over the last 20 years show that cops are far more dangerous with their weapons than CCW's.

Period end of story.

 

[Conservative65]

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

My mother would be in the 5% that doesn't fit one of those types. However, she still had as much experience with guns as many of those others based on the family having been in the business for many years.

 

[Conservative65]

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

I already admitted I was wrong because I didn't know about the CDC recently studying guns, even though two years hasn't given them time to gather very much information. My only other claim is that I have seen nothing to make me believe most CC holders are well trained. You haven't produced anything to back up that claim. Perhaps you should quit until you can come up with something. I'll wait.

You simply can't admit you were wrong. It takes a real man to do it when he is. Guess you're not a real man. Perhaps you should wash the sand out of your pussy before it rubs it raw.

 

[Conservative65]

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Untrue. The CDC (government last time I checked) publishes studies on the subject all the time. Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

He's a gun hater and admitting he was wrong would mean he no longer has an argument about gun control.

 

[Conservative65]

You made the claim that all they have is a CC permit from a half day class. Do you have anything showing they don't have experience?

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Yet you've provided no documentation to back up your claim.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

I already admitted I was wrong because I didn't know about the CDC recently studying guns, even though two years hasn't given them time to gather very much information. My only other claim is that I have seen nothing to make me believe most CC holders are well trained. You haven't produced anything to back up that claim. Perhaps you should quit until you can come up with something. I'll wait.

And you have not been able to come up with anything that says they're not. I have presented MSM reports that show an overwhelming number of police ND's as compared to CCW ND's and even you claim that law enforcement is well trained. The reports from over the last 20 years show that cops are far more dangerous with their weapons than CCW's.

Period end of story.

Then run along an play. You claimed that the majority of CC license holders are well trained. The fact that cops aren't as safe as civilians is a condemnation of cops.It isn't proof that most holders are well trained. As usual your best support is "because I say so" That might be fine among gun nuts, but real proof is required for adults. Your claim that MOST Concealed Carry license holders are well trained is just nuts.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

From 8 years working as as a cop....I encountered a lot of CWP guys at voluntary training classes and sometimes at work.

They're typically 1 of 4 types of guys from my experience:
Prior military
Prior police
Competitive gun shooters
Life long hunters

I didn't encounter too many who have never handled guns much and just decided to buy one and get a cwp. In the ghetto....yes....but no cwp.

I'd argue 95% of cwp are among the 4 types above and have extensive experience with guns.

You met some who take additional voluntary training. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean the claim that the majority do that is true.

You keep blabbering but can produce nothing to back up your bullshit. I suggest you stop while you're just behind.

I already admitted I was wrong because I didn't know about the CDC recently studying guns, even though two years hasn't given them time to gather very much information. My only other claim is that I have seen nothing to make me believe most CC holders are well trained. You haven't produced anything to back up that claim. Perhaps you should quit until you can come up with something. I'll wait.

You simply can't admit you were wrong. It takes a real man to do it when he is. Guess you're not a real man. Perhaps you should wash the sand out of your pussy before it rubs it raw.

I admitted that I was wrong. I didn't know that the CDC started studying gun violence two years ago. I'm quick to change my beliefs when I receive justifying information. However, that is not what this conversation has been based on. WW's claim that most CCW holders are well trained has not been proven.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you have any verifiable reason to believe more than a few of them do?

Personal experience and the fact that there are far, FAR more reports of cops experiencing negligent discharges and shooting innocents, as well as themselves, than there are reports of CCW's doing the same.

An enjoyable class and a poor showing by cops is not reason to believe the majority of cc license carriers are well trained. Some sort of documentation would be. I get the impression that you think I am anti-gun. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've had guns since my daddy gave me a 410 for my 14th birthday. A realistic view of who has that license and a desire for reasonable common sense restrictions doesn't make me a gun hater.

Actual newspaper reports belie your statement. There are at least two orders of magnitude more police negligent discharges reported than there are CCW reports. And, police try to hide their ND's (I know of one California DOJ agent who has had TWO ND's, one of which almost hit one of his team mates, neither one made it into an official report because he was the lead agent) so the actual number is much greater than that reported. CCW's however, are under a microscope so the slightest mistake is reported gleefully by the press.

You are simply, and utterly, wrong.

It's against the law for the government to study gun violence if any of the findings might be used to advocate for gun control, so there are no real numbers, but how exactly does crappy behavior by cops translate to the majority of CC license holders are well trained? I'll tell you what would prove your case. Documentation would. The is no reason to believe any of them have more training than that little inadequate course, no matter how much you might want it to be true. Do you think that course alone makes anyone capable of being counted on in a shots fired in a public place situation? Only an idiot would believe that.

Yet you've provided no documentation to back up your claim.

Wasn't my claim to prove. WW said most CCW were well trained, and I called bullshit.