Number of guns in society falling sharply

[Missourian]

If gun availability was really the root problem...it should be reflected throughout society...not only in one segment.

Well...not really. Drugs are a major problem, but not one which impacts all demographic groups equally. Even car accidents impact some groups much more than others.

So it does not surprise me that gun-related homicide impacts young black men more than any other group. Possibly the same is true of rape, without this meaning that rape prevention need focus ONLY on young black men (though I am sure some posters would suggest that it should do).

I would think that solutions to gun crime would necessarily take into account both ethnicity and gang membership, though.

That said - if the US implemented Australia's legislation, the impact of that would rapidly reduce gun crime right across all ethnic sectors and age groups....even in Springfield!

I would dispute that statement.

We have just as bad of a drug problem here as they do in the inner city.

Addictive meth is scourge of rural Missouri



​

But folks aren't killing each other over it every night like they do in the city.


There is some other variable at work here that has nothing to do with firearms.


There are four times as many legally owned guns in the rural areas as there are in the cities.



It's not poverty, we have folks just as poor as those in the city.


It's not drug use, we have as many drug users.


Is it something about living in a metropolis?


Good question...

 

[Missourian]

I found these two map representations from the U.N. interesting:

 

[Skull Pilot]

Horseshit.

Guns in the United Kingdom: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the UK 1.2 per 100,000. They had 724 murders of which only 27 were from firearms.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the US is 5.1 per 100,000. We had 15,953 murders, of which 11,101 were from firearms.

So where does he get this insane "violent crime" stat?

Well, that's a pretty ambigious number, which can include two guys fighting in a pub over whose soccer team lost. The UK Police, who are not busy investigating so many murders, have more time to record this sort of thing than their US Counterparts.

So violent crime only includes murder?

That's crap.

It's the only one important for purposes of this discussion.

Because, honestly, yeah, you might have more assaults in bars in the UK, but they don't escalate into shooting deaths because people don't have guns in their waistbands..

No it's not the only important one.

Getting beaten within an inch of your life, or rape count too.

You can't cherry pick your criteria of violent crime to suit your desire to impose controls on others.

 

[westwall]

Missourian -

So it is - I apologise for that, as I didn't check the date. Here's a newer piece:

Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. Six times as many children and teens—34,387—suffered nonfatal gun injuries as gun deaths in 2008 and 2009. This is equal to one child or teen every 31 minutes, 47 every day, and 331 children and teens every week.”

REPORT: Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

Uncensored:

#1 cause of child death in America - Abortion - by about a 10,000 to 1 ratio
#2 is shaking/pushing.
#3 accidental head trauma.

Of pre-teens, guns aren't even on the top 30 list.

That is not true - for preteens, suicide is a leading cause of death, ranking as the sixth leading cause of death in 2005. Many of those suicides involve guns.

A more serious list:

5-14 years:

Accidents
Cancer
Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth

15-24 years:

Accidents
Homicide
Suicide

Shows four of the top six causes of death include gun deaths.

Death among children and adolescents: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

The fallacy of that "study" is they consider anyone 24 years old or under to be children. Propaganda from a propagandist....

 

[JoeB131]

No it's not the only important one.

Getting beaten within an inch of your life, or rape count too.

You can't cherry pick your criteria of violent crime to suit your desire to impose controls on others.

Not for purposes of this discussion.

Oh, the UK has lower rates of those crimes, too.

 

[Ernie S.]

Missourian -

So it is - I apologise for that, as I didn't check the date. Here's a newer piece:

Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. Six times as many children and teens—34,387—suffered nonfatal gun injuries as gun deaths in 2008 and 2009. This is equal to one child or teen every 31 minutes, 47 every day, and 331 children and teens every week.”

REPORT: Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

Uncensored:

#1 cause of child death in America - Abortion - by about a 10,000 to 1 ratio
#2 is shaking/pushing.
#3 accidental head trauma.

Of pre-teens, guns aren't even on the top 30 list.

That is not true - for preteens, suicide is a leading cause of death, ranking as the sixth leading cause of death in 2005. Many of those suicides involve guns.

A more serious list:

5-14 years:

Accidents
Cancer
Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth

15-24 years:

Accidents
Homicide
Suicide

Shows four of the top six causes of death include gun deaths.

Death among children and adolescents: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Interesting study. It points out that black youths are nearly 6 times as likely to die from a gunshot wound as white kids.

I see nothing in the study that would indicate that outlawing "assault weapons" or 30 round clips would make an appreciable difference, not do I see what good back ground checks for private sales would do.

 

[Abatis]

The number of households with guns in them is declining.

And the number of family households with adult penises dwelling in them has declined also.

"Only 63 percent of children lived in a household with two parents in 2010, down from 82 percent in 1970."

Does that mean there are fewer men in the population?

"Households" is a category that allows all sorts of shenanigans with data.

 

[skookerasbil]

8 people shot in Chicago today.......lots of gun laws = clearly awesomely effective!!!

Gun Violence Rocks Chicago as 8 are Shot in One Day | News | BET


Gun grabbing is gay.......and we have some knuckleheads on this thread who think we are on the verge of banning guns.

New just released Harvard study clearly displays: More guns = less crimes!!!


Having a society with more guns appears to not only reduce violent crime and keep citizens safe, but also dissuades dangerous criminals from wanting to approach people with guns. According to the study, three out of five polled felons say that they won't mess with an armed victim.



Does Owning Guns Reduce Crime?



By the way........JoeB is the best on The US Message Board for posting up bogus/canned data on alot of things, but mainly on guns. Just a little public service announcement there.......

 

[Abatis]

 

[skookerasbil]

Stuff Black People Don't Like - SBPDL: Guns Don't Kill People; Dangerous Minorities Do -- The Chicago Edition

 

[JoeB131]

The number of households with guns in them is declining.

And the number of family households with adult penises dwelling in them has declined also.

"Only 63 percent of children lived in a household with two parents in 2010, down from 82 percent in 1970."

Does that mean there are fewer men in the population?

"Households" is a category that allows all sorts of shenanigans with data.

No, it's actually an accurate statement. You think the women who are single parents are living penis free, that's your problem.

They just aren't letting it stay.

 

[JoeB131]

Gun grabbing is gay.......and we have some knuckleheads on this thread who think we are on the verge of banning guns.

New just released Harvard study clearly displays: More guns = less crimes!!!

up:

Then why do we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world?

 

[Abatis]

However, murder rates in the US remain at levels that would be considered a disaster in any other western country - far higher than any other major westrnised economy.

But America, in many ways is actually multiple "countries" isn't it?

For instance, on the most superficial level since you are holding up homogenous nations with low crime / homicide as exemplary Utopias of gun control . . .

(CDC Stats)

 

[Ernie S.]

Gun grabbing is gay.......and we have some knuckleheads on this thread who think we are on the verge of banning guns.

New just released Harvard study clearly displays: More guns = less crimes!!!

up:

Then why do we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world?

We don't, as has been pointed out repeatedly, bigot.

 

[Ernie S.]

Total crimes UK 6,523,706 US 11,877,218
Population UK 62.74 million US 313.90 million
Population:crime ratio
UK 1 crime per every 9.62 people
US 1 crime per every 26.43 people

LINK

 

[westwall]

Gun grabbing is gay.......and we have some knuckleheads on this thread who think we are on the verge of banning guns.

New just released Harvard study clearly displays: More guns = less crimes!!!

up:

Then why do we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world?

Ummmmm, 'cause we don't would be my guess.

 

[Ernie S.]

Gun grabbing is gay.......and we have some knuckleheads on this thread who think we are on the verge of banning guns.

New just released Harvard study clearly displays: More guns = less crimes!!!

up:

Then why do we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world?

Ummmmm, 'cause we don't would be my guess.

Bbbb but that's not what Joe has been told to parrot.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then why do we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world?

Ummmmm, 'cause we don't would be my guess.

Bbbb but that's not what Joe has been told to parrot.

I always find it amusing that the people who keep telling us that the number of guns here relates directly to the number of muders refuse to compare the % of guns involved in murder between the US and those countries.

For instance, the US has ~275M guns and suffered 8583 gun-related murders (2011), representing 0.003% of the available guns.

If fewer guns = fewer gun-related murders, then the % of available guns used to murder for countriesl like Canada, Germany, England, should be lower that 0.003%.

Anyone care to show that this is the case?

 

[Abatis]

The number of households with guns in them is declining.

And the number of family households with adult penises dwelling in them has declined also.

"Only 63 percent of children lived in a household with two parents in 2010, down from 82 percent in 1970."

Does that mean there are fewer men in the population?

"Households" is a category that allows all sorts of shenanigans with data.

No, it's actually an accurate statement. You think the women who are single parents are living penis free, that's your problem.

They just aren't letting it stay.

I'm not talking about booty calls.

I'm not necessarily disputing that a study / survey could show that the number of US households with guns is declining . . . One could expect that conclusion simply with the shift in the gender demographics of households, as noted, the 19% decline in family households with men in them as well as racial / cultural demographic shifts (e.g., the rise of Latino households) over the last 30 years. That a phone survey could be crafted to show a 34% gun ownership rate is not that surprising.

It sure doesn't support the premise of this thread, that the, "Number of guns in society [is] falling sharply" . . .

I'm sure it has been pointed out that NORC/GSS has always reported the lowest rates of any polling firms for any gun issue category you wish to examine, double digits (13%) lower than other firms like Gallup specifically for this, general household gun ownership.

Also, NORC/GSS is a Joyce Foundation funded enterprise and Joyce is an outcome based anti-gun outfit that is accustomed to getting the conclusions that they pay for, funding "research" "to really move gun policy forward in America" as the 'respected' Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig freely admit.

 

[Ernie S.]

Well, just looking at some numbers, I see that Mexico, with roughly 1/3 the population has essentially the same total number of gun homicides ((2010) 11,200 vs 11,300 for the US)
So you are 3 times more likely to get shot to death south of the border
The US has roughly 300 million privately owned guns and Mexico has about 15 million. You do the math, but it seems to me that there are factors other than gun ownership responsible for murders.
Interesting statistic I saw somewhere today: 83% of homicide victims in Chicago last year had a felony record.