Number of guns in society falling sharply

[Ernie S.]

Uncensored -

Increasing rights through stripping rights.

I have no idea where you get the idea of 'stripping' rights from - the basic concept of public safety is one of increasing rights and empowering people.

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

When I hear gun fans start to address those rights, I'll certainly listen.

While murder rates in France, Spain and the UK increase, they fall in the USA. Does that mean anything? Well, yeah - it means that France, Spain, and the UK are increasing the numbers of third world populations who are not assimilated into the main culture.

It means that you haven't looked at the stats - the murder rate in the UK is at its lowest point for decades. Do go and check.

Violent crime in the UK has decreased by 47% since '95 (31 victims per 1000) while it has decreased by 66% in the US. (16.9 per 1000)
You are almost twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime in the UK.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I have no idea where you get the idea of 'stripping' rights from - the basic concept of public safety is one of increasing rights and empowering people.

Your goal is to strip civil rights from Americans. Specifically the right to defend oneself and ones family from attack.

Many in the reconstruction era claimed that they supported rights by locking Negroes up, because they were a danger to white women.

Your logic is similar, that by stripping civil rights from some, you protect others.

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

Yawn - utter stupidity.

First off, children fear bullies in school, they don't fear that their neighbor has a gun and might shoot an intruder. And of course the wardens do nothing about the bullies - American public schools differ little if at all from American prisons - the strong brutalize the weak.

You engage in an appeal to emotion logical fallacy, because you know that fact refutes your anti-civil rights campaign.

#1 cause of child death in America - Abortion - by about a 10,000 to 1 ratio
#2 is shaking/pushing.
#3 accidental head trauma.

Of pre-teens, guns aren't even on the top 30 list.

Data Access - Vital Statistics Online

When I hear gun fans start to address those rights, I'll certainly listen.

Logical fallacy isn't a right - it's a fraudulent form of argument.

 

[westwall]

Holding diametrically opposed beliefs is a sign of mental illness.

You mean like claiming that guns protect people, when the homicide rate in the US is ten times that in which less guns are owned?

"There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually."





GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?




Kind of makes you look dumb.....

 

[JoeB131]

[


I read fine. Let me ask you something. 300,000,000 (low estimate) guns already in private hands. Why the need for 5 MILLION more to be added EVERY year...and going up?

Those who wanted guns already had them. So who's buying them now? Your logic makes no sense at all. It is YOU who can't read. As gun ownership becomes stigmatized by the press and the unwashed, those who own them keep it to themselves. That's why the survey as it was done is useless. People had the opportunity to opt out....that makes them worthless.

Were you a non-partisan, propagandist, hack, troll, you would understand that. But, as those appellations ALL apply to you, no amount of logic will ever penetrate that pea sized brain of yours.

I've told you who is buying them. Crazy ass gun nuts like Nancy Lanza. You've had this explained to you a couple of times.

The PERCENTAGE of households with guns in them is declining. The households with guns, the idiots who cling to their guns and their bibles and stock up on more guns because there's a negro in the White House, yup, they make up most of those sales.

Sadly, the gun industry only feeds into the irresponsibility, which is why we have increasing numbers of incidents like Sandy Hook.

 

[JoeB131]

[
There are already laws to keep guns out of the hands of crazies.
The fact that I have 10 or 12 guns does not make me a crazy. The fact that someone else might own 100 doesn't make him a terrorist anymore than the fact that I am contemplating the purchase of an M-2 makes me a right wing militia member.
What you refuse to address is that the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by people who don't believe that current laws don't apply to them.Want to cut down on gun crimes? Issue search warrants for every gang banger on probation for a felony conviction and seize any weapons found.
Make it a 10 year minimum incarceration for anyone convicted of a fire arm crime after a felony conviction.
It you want to end crime and shit, go after criminals, but leave my guns the fuck alone!

No, the vast majority of gun deaths are

Suicides.
Domestic Arguments
Accidents

Very few gun deaths are by the evil criminals you seem to think are lurking behind every bush.

 

[westwall]

QUOTE=JoeB131;7314656]

[


I read fine. Let me ask you something. 300,000,000 (low estimate) guns already in private hands. Why the need for 5 MILLION more to be added EVERY year...and going up?

Those who wanted guns already had them. So who's buying them now? Your logic makes no sense at all. It is YOU who can't read. As gun ownership becomes stigmatized by the press and the unwashed, those who own them keep it to themselves. That's why the survey as it was done is useless. People had the opportunity to opt out....that makes them worthless.

Were you a non-partisan, propagandist, hack, troll, you would understand that. But, as those appellations ALL apply to you, no amount of logic will ever penetrate that pea sized brain of yours.

I've told you who is buying them. Crazy ass gun nuts like Nancy Lanza. You've had this explained to you a couple of times.

The PERCENTAGE of households with guns in them is declining. The households with guns, the idiots who cling to their guns and their bibles and stock up on more guns because there's a negro in the White House, yup, they make up most of those sales.

Sadly, the gun industry only feeds into the irresponsibility, which is why we have increasing numbers of incidents like Sandy Hook.[/QUOTE]






You claim the percentage is dropping but any person capable of critical thinking would say, "you know...there's already so many out there that those new ones are being bought by someone...but who?" Well a certain percentage will buy guns they don't need for the hell of it. A certain percentage buy them for investment purposes, a certain percentage are just kooks and buy them even when they can't afford them somehow, but that leaves at least a million.....I wonder where those are going"

 

[Saigon]

It is really interesting to note how concerned gun enthusiasts really are about civil rights:

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

Yawn - utter stupidity.
.

 

[Saigon]

A few more gun facts:

Male Teens: Gun Deaths Exceed All Natural Causes

More teen-age boys die from gunshots than from all natural causes combined, and a black male teen-ager is 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun than is a white male teen-ager, Health and Human Services Secretary Louis Sullivan said last night in a speech that linked firearms, race and family breakdown.

Business | Male Teens: Gun Deaths Exceed All Natural Causes | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[Missourian]

A few more gun facts:

Male Teens: Gun Deaths Exceed All Natural Causes

More teen-age boys die from gunshots than from all natural causes combined, and a black male teen-ager is 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun than is a white male teen-ager, Health and Human Services Secretary Louis Sullivan said last night in a speech that linked firearms, race and family breakdown.

Business | Male Teens: Gun Deaths Exceed All Natural Causes | Seattle Times Newspaper

That article is 22 years old...

 

[Saigon]

Missourian -

So it is - I apologise for that, as I didn't check the date. Here's a newer piece:

Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. Six times as many children and teens—34,387—suffered nonfatal gun injuries as gun deaths in 2008 and 2009. This is equal to one child or teen every 31 minutes, 47 every day, and 331 children and teens every week.”

REPORT: Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

Uncensored:

#1 cause of child death in America - Abortion - by about a 10,000 to 1 ratio
#2 is shaking/pushing.
#3 accidental head trauma.

Of pre-teens, guns aren't even on the top 30 list.

That is not true - for preteens, suicide is a leading cause of death, ranking as the sixth leading cause of death in 2005. Many of those suicides involve guns.

A more serious list:

5-14 years:

Accidents
Cancer
Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth

15-24 years:

Accidents
Homicide
Suicide

Shows four of the top six causes of death include gun deaths.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm

 

[TemplarKormac]

Missourian -

So it is - I apologise for that, as I didn't check the date. Here's a newer piece:

Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. Six times as many children and teens—34,387—suffered nonfatal gun injuries as gun deaths in 2008 and 2009. This is equal to one child or teen every 31 minutes, 47 every day, and 331 children and teens every week.”

REPORT: Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

Uncensored:

#1 cause of child death in America - Abortion - by about a 10,000 to 1 ratio
#2 is shaking/pushing.
#3 accidental head trauma.

Of pre-teens, guns aren't even on the top 30 list.

That is not true - for preteens, suicide is a leading cause of death, ranking as the sixth leading cause of death in 2005. Many of those suicides involve guns.

A more serious list:

5-14 years:

Accidents
Cancer
Developmental and genetic conditions that were present at birth

15-24 years:

Accidents
Homicide
Suicide

Shows four of the top six causes of death include gun deaths.

Death among children and adolescents: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[Missourian]

Missourian -

So it is - I apologise for that, as I didn't check the date. Here's a newer piece:

Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. Six times as many children and teens—34,387—suffered nonfatal gun injuries as gun deaths in 2008 and 2009. This is equal to one child or teen every 31 minutes, 47 every day, and 331 children and teens every week.”

REPORT: Gun Homicide is the Leading Cause Of Death Among Black Teens

These are a little dated, but judging by your article...it would seem that things haven't changed...

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/187239.pdf


Now, taking these two charts in concert...is the problem guns...or is it something else?

 

[Saigon]

Missourian -

Those are fasincating graphs.

Now, taking these two charts in concert...is the problem guns...or is it something else?

Well the two charts clearly present two very different key factors - both of which have to be taken into consideration.

Clearly the availability of firearms is a massive issue in Chart #1. It is THE issue, in fact.

And clearly the race of victims is also a massive issue in Chart #2.

However, society can not make laws that only apply to particular racial groups. Any solution has to apply to all citizens, right?

 

[Missourian]

Missourian -

Those are fasincating graphs.

Now, taking these two charts in concert...is the problem guns...or is it something else?

Well the two charts clearly present two very different key factors - both of which have to be taken into consideration.

Clearly the availability of firearms is a massive issue in Chart #1. It is THE issue, in fact.

And clearly the race of victims is also a massive issue in Chart #2.

However, society can not make laws that only apply to particular racial groups. Any solution has to apply to all citizens, right?

The first question we should be asking is, what is the root problem?

If gun availability was really the root problem...it should be reflected throughout society...not only in one segment.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can see what it isn't.

I live in a community where gun ownership is the rule...yet, gun crime here is almost unheard of.

Springfield, MO, a city of 161,000 has an average of 6 homicides per year

Saint Louis, MO with a population 318,000 has an average of 128 homicides per year.

Now the Greater St. Louis area is 6.7 times larger than the greater Springfield area according to Wikipedia...436,712 to 2,900,605...but even factoring that in, the murder rate of Springfield times 6.7 is 40 homicides on average...not 128!

And again, there are a lot of guns out here, so what is the root cause of the higher murder rate?

THAT is the issue we need to be addressing...if the goal is really reducing homicides...

 

[Saigon]

If gun availability was really the root problem...it should be reflected throughout society...not only in one segment.

Well...not really. Drugs are a major problem, but not one which impacts all demographic groups equally. Even car accidents impact some groups much more than others.

So it does not surprise me that gun-related homicide impacts young black men more than any other group. Possibly the same is true of rape, without this meaning that rape prevention need focus ONLY on young black men (though I am sure some posters would suggest that it should do).

I would think that solutions to gun crime would necessarily take into account both ethnicity and gang membership, though.

That said - if the US implemented Australia's legislation, the impact of that would rapidly reduce gun crime right across all ethnic sectors and age groups....even in Springfield!

 

[JoeB131]

You claim the percentage is dropping but any person capable of critical thinking would say, "you know...there's already so many out there that those new ones are being bought by someone...but who?" Well a certain percentage will buy guns they don't need for the hell of it. A certain percentage buy them for investment purposes, a certain percentage are just kooks and buy them even when they can't afford them somehow, but that leaves at least a million.....I wonder where those are going"

Not to new owners, guy. The number of households with guns in them is declining. You guys are becoming an increasingly radicalized minority.

This is what you guys are in denial about. Gun ownership is becoming like smoking. Something that is frowned upon, but a loud obnoxious minority is still insisting on their "right" to do it.

 

[JoeB131]

Uncensored -

Increasing rights through stripping rights.

I have no idea where you get the idea of 'stripping' rights from - the basic concept of public safety is one of increasing rights and empowering people.

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

When I hear gun fans start to address those rights, I'll certainly listen.

While murder rates in France, Spain and the UK increase, they fall in the USA. Does that mean anything? Well, yeah - it means that France, Spain, and the UK are increasing the numbers of third world populations who are not assimilated into the main culture.

It means that you haven't looked at the stats - the murder rate in the UK is at its lowest point for decades. Do go and check.

Violent crime in the UK has decreased by 47% since '95 (31 victims per 1000) while it has decreased by 66% in the US. (16.9 per 1000)
You are almost twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime in the UK.

Horseshit.

Guns in the United Kingdom: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the UK 1.2 per 100,000. They had 724 murders of which only 27 were from firearms.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the US is 5.1 per 100,000. We had 15,953 murders, of which 11,101 were from firearms.

So where does he get this insane "violent crime" stat?

Well, that's a pretty ambigious number, which can include two guys fighting in a pub over whose soccer team lost. The UK Police, who are not busy investigating so many murders, have more time to record this sort of thing than their US Counterparts.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Uncensored -



I have no idea where you get the idea of 'stripping' rights from - the basic concept of public safety is one of increasing rights and empowering people.

The right to go to school and feel safe. The right to be safe at work. The right for a child to feel safe at home.

When I hear gun fans start to address those rights, I'll certainly listen.



It means that you haven't looked at the stats - the murder rate in the UK is at its lowest point for decades. Do go and check.

Violent crime in the UK has decreased by 47% since '95 (31 victims per 1000) while it has decreased by 66% in the US. (16.9 per 1000)
You are almost twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime in the UK.

Horseshit.

Guns in the United Kingdom: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the UK 1.2 per 100,000. They had 724 murders of which only 27 were from firearms.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the US is 5.1 per 100,000. We had 15,953 murders, of which 11,101 were from firearms.

So where does he get this insane "violent crime" stat?

Well, that's a pretty ambigious number, which can include two guys fighting in a pub over whose soccer team lost. The UK Police, who are not busy investigating so many murders, have more time to record this sort of thing than their US Counterparts.

So violent crime only includes murder?

That's crap.

 

[JoeB131]

Violent crime in the UK has decreased by 47% since '95 (31 victims per 1000) while it has decreased by 66% in the US. (16.9 per 1000)
You are almost twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime in the UK.

Horseshit.

Guns in the United Kingdom: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the UK 1.2 per 100,000. They had 724 murders of which only 27 were from firearms.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

The murder rate in the US is 5.1 per 100,000. We had 15,953 murders, of which 11,101 were from firearms.

So where does he get this insane "violent crime" stat?

Well, that's a pretty ambigious number, which can include two guys fighting in a pub over whose soccer team lost. The UK Police, who are not busy investigating so many murders, have more time to record this sort of thing than their US Counterparts.

So violent crime only includes murder?

That's crap.

It's the only one important for purposes of this discussion.

Because, honestly, yeah, you might have more assaults in bars in the UK, but they don't escalate into shooting deaths because people don't have guns in their waistbands..

 

[namvet]

the figures are from the NY and LA slime??? give your brain a chance. a shot in the dark.

LMFAO !!!!!