Obama as a Marxist

[PubliusInfinitum]

For the RECORD:

The imbecile "AG" is running around the board DENYING HER ABJECT FAILURE ON THIS THREAD... It is HYSTERICAL!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/69390-worst-president-of-last-100-years-7.html#post1042231

 

[Agnapostate]

What is this, some kind of stupid joke? You don't know jack shit about Marxian political economy, which has led to your pathetic failure in this thread. Let's give you a chance to redeem yourself: commentary on crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

 

[editec]

What is this, some kind of stupid joke? You don't know jack shit about Marxian political economy, which has led to your pathetic failure in this thread. Let's give you a chance to redeem yourself: commentary on crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

Why do you persist attempting to have a serious discussion with PU, Ag?

PU wallows in his ignorance like a pig wallows in mud.

He celebrates his ignorance about political science and takes a delight in making you waste your time trying to educate him on a subject about which he clearly knows exactly nothing

If you continue to encouraging him by responding to his mantra of misinformation he will have no encentive at all to actually ever say anything even remotely reality-based.

If your point is to prove to those of us with a clue, that you understand the terms and meanings of words like Marxism and communism better than those who confuse Obama for a marxist? Well that was a given from the moment this thread ensued.

PU is an anti-intellectual.

He wears his ignorance like a badge of honor.

Save you ASCII for those who aren't out to make you waste it.

 

[Swoop187]

I've increasingly heard Barack Obama depicted as a Marxist, so I'd be curious to know what Marxist theories he advocates.

Moreover, I'd be curious to know of his accusers' knowledge of Marxism. Let's take an example of Marxian political economy: crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

 

[Toro]

I've increasingly heard Barack Obama depicted as a Marxist, so I'd be curious to know what Marxist theories he advocates.

Moreover, I'd be curious to know of his accusers' knowledge of Marxism. Let's take an example of Marxian political economy: crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

 

[Swoop187]

I've increasingly heard Barack Obama depicted as a Marxist, so I'd be curious to know what Marxist theories he advocates.

Moreover, I'd be curious to know of his accusers' knowledge of Marxism. Let's take an example of Marxian political economy: crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

Please give me an example.

 

[editec]

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

Please give me an example.

How about every nation in Europe for starters?

The point some of us try to make to those who are poliSCi-clueless, is that words like Socialism and Marxism have very SPECIFIC meanings.

It's not what people like PU like, or don't like, it means something very specific.

Now the general consensus of the politically unasture is that socialism means government welfare or something (anything, actually) they don't personally approve of.

It doesn't.

So if we allow the terminal dense to destroy the language, we allow them to make it impossible to have any kind of intelligent conversation about these subjects.

And I suspect, that in some cases, that is really their agenda.

 

[Swoop187]

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

Please give me an example.

How about every nation in Europe for starters?

The point some of us try to make to those who are poliSCi-clueless, is that words like Socialism and Marxism have very SPECIFIC meanings.

It's not what people like PU like, or don't like, it means something very specific.

Now the general consensus of the politically unasture is that socialism means government welfare or something (anything, actually) they don't personally approve of.

It doesn't.

So if we allow the terminal dense to destroy the language, we allow them to make it impossible to have any kind of intelligent conversation about these subjects.

And I suspect, that in some cases, that is really their agenda.

Socialism works in nations with limited populations, nations with large populations such as the US 305 million people (new census estimate) fail under socialism.

The USSR is a fantastic example..

Large socialist nations and only one class and thats the dirt poor!

Maybe some liberals need to talk to some russians who defected to the US to find out exactly how awful socialism is...

Not to mention socialism inevitably leads to communism.

 

[Toro]

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

Please give me an example.

You noted entitlements, universal healthcare, infrastructure spending, bail outs, tax increases on the rich and increased spending for the poor as examples of "socialism/Marxism".

You have just described the mixed economy of every industrialized nation on earth, including to some extent the United States.

 

[Swoop187]

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

Please give me an example.

You noted entitlements, universal healthcare, infrastructure spending, bail outs, tax increases on the rich and increased spending for the poor as examples of "socialism/Marxism".

You have just described the mixed economy of every industrialized nation on earth, including to some extent the United States.

So what exactly is your point?

 

[Toro]

Please give me an example.

You noted entitlements, universal healthcare, infrastructure spending, bail outs, tax increases on the rich and increased spending for the poor as examples of "socialism/Marxism".

You have just described the mixed economy of every industrialized nation on earth, including to some extent the United States.

So what exactly is your point?

That your definitions of Marxism are wrong, and thus your criticisms of Obama are wrong. What you are describing is what what every other industrialized nation has on earth, including the United States to some extent.

 

[Swoop187]

You noted entitlements, universal healthcare, infrastructure spending, bail outs, tax increases on the rich and increased spending for the poor as examples of "socialism/Marxism".

You have just described the mixed economy of every industrialized nation on earth, including to some extent the United States.

So what exactly is your point?

That your definitions of Marxism are wrong, and thus your criticisms of Obama are wrong. What you are describing is what what every other industrialized nation has on earth, including the United States to some extent.

No you're wrong... Socialism isnt black and white.. Of course some governments have some control over its people via legislation (that doesnt make them socialist) but economic control is socialism and Obama clearly wants government economic control not free market or capitalist control. Of course this leads to government ownership sooner or later which makes socialism morph into communism.

I can clearly see your anti-capitalist.

You got a problem with the government making profit and politicians getting rich??? God forbid non-government employees getting rich.

I guess the only fair thing is for everyone to live on welfare so no one gets rich, we can all be poor and miserable.

Its no fair right that some people are rich and others are poor so lets just eliminate choice.

Sorry if people want to make money, you wanna get rich make the sacrifices and take the risks.

But of course Obama's policy isnt socialist?????

How about purposely trying to tank capitalism?

The only damn reason why Obama agreed with bailing out the banks is because it gives him an epic amount of power over a capitalist institution. Believe me he would have loved to see those banks eat all the debt created by the poor idiots that couldnt pay their bills as a kick off to his conversion to socialism.

 

[Toro]

No you're wrong... Socialism isnt black and white.. Of course some governments have some control over its people via legislation (that doesnt make them socialist) but economic control is socialism and Obama clearly wants government economic control not free market or capitalist control. Of course this leads to government ownership sooner or later which makes socialism morph into communism.

I can clearly see your anti-capitalist.

You got a problem with the government making profit and politicians getting rich??? God forbid non-government employees getting rich.

I guess the only fair thing is for everyone to live on welfare so no one gets rich, we can all be poor and miserable.

Its no fair right that some people are rich and others are poor so lets just eliminate choice.

Sorry if people want to make money, you wanna get rich make the sacrifices and take the risks.

But of course Obama's policy isnt socialist?????

How about purposely trying to tank capitalism?

The only damn reason why Obama agreed with bailing out the banks is because it gives him an epic amount of power over a capitalist institution. Believe me he would have loved to see those banks eat all the debt created by the poor idiots that couldnt pay their bills as a kick off to his conversion to socialism.

First of all, I'm willing to bet that I know more about business and profits than you. I have analyzed literally a thousand businesses, and I can tear apart financial statements in my sleep. I am also willing to bet that I have done far more to fund and grow "capitalist" businesses than yourself. So don't hand me this "anti-capitalist" idiocy.

Second, I am not wrong. Do you have any understanding how global economies are structured? To say that what Obama is doing morphs into Marxism is silly. If that were true, then Germany, France, Sweden, Belgium, Canada et. al. would have morphed into Marxist states a long time ago. The government's involvement in the economy in the industrialized world is a continuum of a mixed economy, not some ridiculous black and white bumper sticker slogan delineations of "Marxism" and capitalism. Virtually every other economy in the industrialized world has more controls over it than the United States, which is where Obama is taking us. You can debate whether or not that is a good thing but to label it as "Marxist" is ignorant and reflects poorly on the political Right in this country. It demonstrates why parts of the political Right get labeled as "anti-intellectual."

Third, perhaps you weren't paying attention, but Bush handed the banks $350 billion from the Treasury and the Fed under Bush has taken a $1 trillion of shitty loans from the banks. So this "Obama bailing out the banks" to control them is silly.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What is this, some kind of stupid joke?

If by "this" you're referring to YOU... then I'd say ya NAILED IT.

You don't know jack shit about Marxian political economy, which has led to your pathetic failure in this thread.

Golly... So you 'feel' that I failed in this thread?

Huh... The craziest thing is that the record of this thread is written; it's unambiguous and subjective opinion will only carry ya so far… And with that said, I can't find anywhere, at any point in the discussion where any reasonable person could come to the conclusion that my argument failed... what's more, when I find that someone's argument has failed, I usually point to the specific point where the opposition's argument failed; such as THIS post on this very thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/68889-obama-as-a-marxist-4.html#post1039143

Which followed THIS post: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/68889-obama-as-a-marxist-4.html#post1038708

Which was the post I advanced in response to your post wherein YOU DEFINED Marxism and in so doing described the Resume, Campaign and Presidency of President Hussein... Conclusively proving President Hussein a Marxist; at least as YOU HAVE DEFINED MARXISM.

Let's give you a chance to redeem yourself:

Golly that's mighty white of ya... but at the moment we're waiting on YOU to provide evidence and a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid argument in support of you soon to be discredited position that I have failed on this thread.


Now it should be noted that I firmly believe that you're entitled to 'feel' that I have failed... as you're as entitled to your opinions as anyone else.

The purpose of this exercise is to establish your opinion as being one absent a sound intellectual basis; meaning that while you may ’feel’ that I failed… there is no actual evidence which would otherwise validate those feelings; which means your feelings are unfounded and a function of either deceit or delusion; which of course will prove quite conclusively that your opinion is wholly without value... And counter productive to reason… establishing you, once again, as a prattling fool of the absurd variety.

But you shouldn’t feel bad about THAT… because all leftists are absurd fools; and it’s THAT which you should feel bad about.

THEN... if you're still interested, which is fairly unlikely, as you're not likely to enjoy this much... Which means you’re unlikely to hang, but IF ya do, at THAT point, we can move on to discuss the irrelevant minutia of the more pedantic elements of Marxist 'theory...'

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

PU is an anti-intellectual.

ROFLMNAO... Oh GOD that's precious...

Down to redefining "intellectual" are ya?

CLASSIC!

Now that is an assertion of the emphatic variety... it is an assertion which implies a projection of FACT; an intellectual would have followed such an assertion with supporting argument; argument which well reasoned, intellectually sound and logically valid... Yet it is a fact that this member chose NOT to provide such a basis in reasoning... only to add MORE conjecture, which she also projected as FACT.

Now perhaps you're thinkin' that this is just a simple oversight... and HEY! Maybe it is...

Let's find out...

Editec... would you please provide a well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid argument to support this raw ad populum fallacy; this conjectural screed... otherwise known as the spurious rant above; which is one post from being conclusively discredited?

Of course an intellectual would have no problem providing such; as such would simply represent their thought process which lead to the creation of the relavant opinion... while the anti-intellectual would have very little to offer in a reasoned basis, as their position would be comprised of subjective emotion... which simply sought to seek the favor of the observer, appealing to what they percieve is the opinion of the observer; this on the erroneous basis wherein they believe that a popular opinion is a valid opinion.

Of course in fact, there is no potential correlation between the popularity of a given position and the number of people who adhere to it...

Anywho... if the member would show a cogent, sound, logically valid basis for her position... that would GREeeeaaat.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I've increasingly heard Barack Obama depicted as a Marxist, so I'd be curious to know what Marxist theories he advocates.

Moreover, I'd be curious to know of his accusers' knowledge of Marxism. Let's take an example of Marxian political economy: crisis theory. When it comes to two specific forms of crisis, underconsumption crisis and profit squeeze crisis, which occurs when the capitalist class is too strong and which occurs when they are too weak?

How about entitlement?
How about full blown government control (universal health care, infrastructure, bail out dictatorship, etc)
Tax increases on the rich?

Hell the stimulus plan is a perfect example of socialist ideology...

Obama is a Socialist not a Marxist, when/if he succeeds at his socialist agenda then he will be a Marxist.

Obama going out of his way to punish capitalists and the rich and reward the poor is another great example of his socialistic tendencies..

Obama is trying to create a once class society which is another socialist/communist ideology.

So in other words, every single country in the West not named "the United States" is a Marxist country.

CLASSIC Non sequitur!

 

[bk1983]

Well Obama does like to socialize...

Funny, you guys didn't seem to have problems with the Bush admin cavorting with known terrorist..

 

[editec]

Please give me an example.

How about every nation in Europe for starters?

The point some of us try to make to those who are poliSCi-clueless, is that words like Socialism and Marxism have very SPECIFIC meanings.

It's not what people like PU like, or don't like, it means something very specific.

Now the general consensus of the politically unasture is that socialism means government welfare or something (anything, actually) they don't personally approve of.

It doesn't.

So if we allow the terminal dense to destroy the language, we allow them to make it impossible to have any kind of intelligent conversation about these subjects.

And I suspect, that in some cases, that is really their agenda.

Socialism works in nations with limited populations, nations with large populations such as the US 305 million people (new census estimate) fail under socialism.

The USSR is a fantastic example..

Large socialist nations and only one class and thats the dirt poor!

Maybe some liberals need to talk to some russians who defected to the US to find out exactly how awful socialism is...

Not to mention socialism inevitably leads to communism.

I agree.

Socialism isn't a good model for government.

Neither is the model we currently have which isn't socialism.

What's your point?

That Obama is a socialist?

Well then, what was Bush?

They running the same government, dude.

Wake the fuck up and smell the MULTIPLE bailouts.

 

[Meister]

How about every nation in Europe for starters?

The point some of us try to make to those who are poliSCi-clueless, is that words like Socialism and Marxism have very SPECIFIC meanings.

It's not what people like PU like, or don't like, it means something very specific.

Now the general consensus of the politically unasture is that socialism means government welfare or something (anything, actually) they don't personally approve of.

It doesn't.

So if we allow the terminal dense to destroy the language, we allow them to make it impossible to have any kind of intelligent conversation about these subjects.

And I suspect, that in some cases, that is really their agenda.

Socialism works in nations with limited populations, nations with large populations such as the US 305 million people (new census estimate) fail under socialism.

The USSR is a fantastic example..

Large socialist nations and only one class and thats the dirt poor!

Maybe some liberals need to talk to some russians who defected to the US to find out exactly how awful socialism is...

Not to mention socialism inevitably leads to communism.

I agree.

Socialism isn't a good model for government.

Neither is the model we currently have which isn't socialism.

What's your point?

That Obama is a socialist?

Well then, what was Bush?

They running the same government, dude.

Wake the fuck up and smell the MULTIPLE bailouts.

There are degrees to socialism....Bush was a big spender, social on some, and conservatice on others. Obama is going to take us a lot further into socialism that Bush ever did. Remember, Obama just got into his office, and with the likes of Pelosi, and Reid...

 

[editec]

There are degrees to socialism....Bush was a big spender, social on some, and conservatice on others. Obama is going to take us a lot further into socialism that Bush ever did. Remember, Obama just got into his office, and with the likes of Pelosi, and Reid...

No there's aren't.

Socialism has a MEANING.

Obama might be fifty kinds of fool, he may be all sort of things you disapprove of but until he nationalizes this nations MEANS OF PRODUCTION he is no more a socialist than you are.

Jesus christ on a crutch go get a fucking education.