Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

[Conservative65]

The point I've confirmed is that I while I got mine, I don't expect anything more of others than I do myself. When I'm meeting my responsibility as a parent and I see others demanding I meet it for their kids because they won't, you have part of it right. It isn't I got mine, it's fuck the rest of you that want me to do for you what you won't do for your own kids.

You have a problem with me wanting to use MY money for MY kids yet you don't have one demanding I be forced to do what another parent isn't for their own kids. I don't owe them a college education.

You're still stuck in the same blind spot.
Such an idea is not for the benefit of "your" kids, "my" kids, "his", "her" or "their" kids. It's for the benefit of the greater whole, the country, the culture, the society, choose your term. Just as the fire department isn't there to protect "your" property or "mine". You keep trying to personalize the Commons into the Personal Possession as if it's some kind of trinket that must be "owned" by one entity or another, that's your blind spot.

This just in: not everything in life is material, and not everything is quantifiable as "X amount of money".

This proposal isn't for the benefit of my kids. My kids will be going to a real college not the 13th and 14th grade like community college.

Your blind spot is that you have already determined that it will benefit the greater whole without one damn bit of proof to back it up.

Yuh huh.
Then why do we publicly fund 1-12?

Matter o' fact why do we require education at all if there's no benefit to the Commons?

For that matter why does the concept of education even exist? To benefit Numero Uno if Numero Uno can afford it?

See what I mean? You still don't get it.

Let me explain it to you using the Constitution. The 10th Amendment states that all powers not delegated to the federal government nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States. Delegated means expressed or in simple terms, written. Prohibited means you can't do it. Reserved means that the body granted that type of power can, but it not required to, make laws related to it. Reserved does not mean that if the body given that type of power chooses not to do anything related to the federal government, by default, gets it.

Knowing that, let's answer your question of why do we publicly fund 1 - 12? There is no simple answer. ALL you need to realize and acknowledge is that the authority to pass any laws related to education belongs to the States not the federal government regardless of level of education. There is absolutely no express, delegated, or written authority for the federal government to do anything related to education. Therefore, according to the Constitution, the authority, under RESERVED powers, falls to the States as to whether or not they choose to do it. All 50 have chosen to do it with nothing in one State having to do with anything in another State unless the STATES agree between themselves. For example, my State of SC has certain requirements in order to be a certified teacher. The requirements of GA, our next door neighbor, aren't exactly the same although many similarities exist. I had a friend that moved from SC to GA to teach and she was informed that GA would accept her teaching certificate from SC with one requirement she had to meet. She has to take a special education class because GA, under the reserved powers to regulate what the federal government has no authority to regulate, thinks its teachers should have that class.

Back to your question. Since the authority to regulate education falls to the States through RESERVED powers, there's that word again, if a State chooses to fund its educational system with taxes provided by those within the State, they have that authority unless in doing it, the laws created to do it violate the U.S. Constitution. Since State's have the concurrent power to tax related to things intrastate, it doesn't violate the Constitution. That's why we fund things through the 12th grade.

Many supporters of this use California as an example of a State that funded college then blame Reagan for doing away with it. If only those within California funded college through their taxes, California, under RESERVED powers, can do that as level of education is irrelevant. However, what California can't do is place taxes on others States to fund it as that is against the Constitution. I don't agree with that but I don't live in California.

There are federal guidelines such as those under No Child Left Behind that many States adopted. Do you think those States had to adopt those guideline because the federal government established them?

The same concept can be applied to healthcare. Many Obamacare supporters say Romney put something similar in place in Massachusetts so why don't Republicans support it nationwide. Same explanation. Healthcare isn't a delegated power, therefore, if a State chooses to do something like was done in Massachusetts and it involves only that State, they have that power. What they can't do is tax other States to fund it.

Got it?

The whole "state's rights" is such a crock of shit. Everyone knows why Republicans are ALWAYS screaming "state's rights". They want to discriminate against gays or blacks or some other minority. Or they want to pollute and not be told to stop. They just want to do something unethical or immoral and claim it's their right. No one is fooled.

Are you saying the 10th Amendment is a crock of shit?

You can claim you think you know. You're the fool if you do. Now run along and suck more Democrat dick.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You don't have to believe me but I can prove what I said. When I do prove that the one I used as an example is 65 or more, all I ask of you is to admit you're wrong.

I could open a "college" and offer an associates degree for chewing gum.

BUT this will not be an accredited school. For those accredited, the rules are set, 40 hours of coursework per unit, 60 units for an AA.

Home Senior College and University Commission

An associate degree has only one value, credit toward a bachelors degree. IF you cannot transfer units to a 4 year program, then the associates has no value at all. A non-accredited AA will not transfer.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So, technical certificates have value. No question about that. An MSCE, CCIE, or even A+ will be very useful.

An associates degree though:? It's good ONLY as a start to a bachelors.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Are you saying the 10th Amendment is a crock of shit?

You can claim you think you know. You're the fool if you do. Now run along and suck more Democrat dick.

rdean has contempt for the ENTIRE Constitution, not just the 10th.

 

[Flopper]

The value of a "general" or non-specialized degree is almost non-existent now.
Adding even more unqualified people for even more worthless degrees further dilutes the value.
Soon, and likely before Obama exits - you will see the liberals trying to push for lower standards as OVERWHELMING numbers of federal-grant students never graduate. In some schools less than 10% ever achieve a degree. But by all means - lets not address this huge issue, lets just keep piling up more failing students and pat eachother on the back for helping the under privileged.

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So we should be willing to invest in something that you admit won't create any thingpo but not so great jobs? No thanks.

I didn't say that. Community colleges provide education that is applicable to the workplace, something most people don't get in high school. A person without experience and just training is not going get a great job but with a 2 year degree, they can get a start in a real career as oppose to the dead end jobs that most high school kids end up with. If a person want to go on to a four year school, most of the curriculum will transfer.

People forget that community colleges are more than just stepping stones to a 4 year school They offer degrees for dental hygienist, medical assistants, paralegals, office assistants, and dozens of other semi-professional jobs with good pay and a future. There are millions of jobs in the country that require more than a high school diploma but less than a bachelor's degree.

 

[Flopper]

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So, technical certificates have value. No question about that. An MSCE, CCIE, or even A+ will be very useful.

An associates degree though:? It's good ONLY as a start to a bachelors.

There are a lot of LPN's, dental hygienist, and medical assistants that would disagree..

 

[Conservative65]

The value of a "general" or non-specialized degree is almost non-existent now.
Adding even more unqualified people for even more worthless degrees further dilutes the value.
Soon, and likely before Obama exits - you will see the liberals trying to push for lower standards as OVERWHELMING numbers of federal-grant students never graduate. In some schools less than 10% ever achieve a degree. But by all means - lets not address this huge issue, lets just keep piling up more failing students and pat eachother on the back for helping the under privileged.

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So we should be willing to invest in something that you admit won't create any thingpo but not so great jobs? No thanks.

I didn't say that. Community colleges provide education that is applicable to the workplace, something most people don't get in high school. A person without experience and just training is not going get a great job but with a 2 year degree, they can get a start in a real career as oppose to the dead end jobs that most high school kids end up with. If a person want to go on to a four year school, most of the curriculum will transfer.

People forget that community colleges are more than just stepping stones to a 4 year school They offer degrees for dental hygienist, medical assistants, paralegals, office assistants, and dozens of other semi-professional jobs with good pay and a future. There are millions of jobs in the country that require more than a high school diploma but less than a bachelor's degree.

It's not true that most of the curriculum will transfer. The local technical college that I've referenced on other posts has English courses that are part of the Associate degrees it offers. However, it's not the same English that 4 year schools accepts. They are two different classes.

I understand all you say about more than high school but less than a bachelor degree job. However, NONE of that warrants forcing one person to pay for another person's kid to get any of it. The bullshit you spread about it will produce better paid workers who contribute to society is pure speculation.

 

[Conservative65]

Are you saying the 10th Amendment is a crock of shit?

You can claim you think you know. You're the fool if you do. Now run along and suck more Democrat dick.

rdean has contempt for the ENTIRE Constitution, not just the 10th.

That's because he's the typical Statist. You know, policies so good they have to be mandated.

 

[Conservative65]

You don't have to believe me but I can prove what I said. When I do prove that the one I used as an example is 65 or more, all I ask of you is to admit you're wrong.

I could open a "college" and offer an associates degree for chewing gum.

BUT this will not be an accredited school. For those accredited, the rules are set, 40 hours of coursework per unit, 60 units for an AA.

Home Senior College and University Commission

An associate degree has only one value, credit toward a bachelors degree. IF you cannot transfer units to a 4 year program, then the associates has no value at all. A non-accredited AA will not transfer.

The local tech school I referenced offer Associate degrees and college transfer courses. For example, the math courses for the Fire Science degree are for the AA degree. For it to transfer to a 4 year school, it has to be a higher level than the AA Fire Science requires for that degree.

 

[Unkotare]

Sounds like you want the taxpayers to fund for your granddaughter what you aren't willing to do yourself. Fuck that. If you won't fund it for her, I damn sure won't do it.

Would you say the same about a kid just starting jr. high?

 

[Flopper]

The value of a "general" or non-specialized degree is almost non-existent now.
Adding even more unqualified people for even more worthless degrees further dilutes the value.
Soon, and likely before Obama exits - you will see the liberals trying to push for lower standards as OVERWHELMING numbers of federal-grant students never graduate. In some schools less than 10% ever achieve a degree. But by all means - lets not address this huge issue, lets just keep piling up more failing students and pat eachother on the back for helping the under privileged.

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So we should be willing to invest in something that you admit won't create any thingpo but not so great jobs? No thanks.

I didn't say that. Community colleges provide education that is applicable to the workplace, something most people don't get in high school. A person without experience and just training is not going get a great job but with a 2 year degree, they can get a start in a real career as oppose to the dead end jobs that most high school kids end up with. If a person want to go on to a four year school, most of the curriculum will transfer.

People forget that community colleges are more than just stepping stones to a 4 year school They offer degrees for dental hygienist, medical assistants, paralegals, office assistants, and dozens of other semi-professional jobs with good pay and a future. There are millions of jobs in the country that require more than a high school diploma but less than a bachelor's degree.

It's not true that most of the curriculum will transfer. The local technical college that I've referenced on other posts has English courses that are part of the Associate degrees it offers. However, it's not the same English that 4 year schools accepts. They are two different classes.

I understand all you say about more than high school but less than a bachelor degree job. However, NONE of that warrants forcing one person to pay for another person's kid to get any of it. The bullshit you spread about it will produce better paid workers who contribute to society is pure speculation.

It may depend on the community college. I'm not familiar with all of them. I've seen the curriculums in several schools. I would say in about 50% of the curriculums all courses transfer which is what most students choose. Community colleges offer degrees in subjects whose courses do not transfer such as Ceramics, Sculpture, Cosmetology, Dental Hygiene, and Medical Transcription but most students elect curriculums that do transfer such as Education, Computer Science, Business Administration, Accounting, Economics, Marketing, Management, Advertising, and Engineering, etc.....

Your argument against paying for other peoples education is exactly the same thing I hear at School Board Meeting whenever a tax increase or bond issue is proposed. "I don't want to pay to educate somebody else's kid." The reply is always, "Everybody benefits from better education and it always falls on deaf ears as I'm sure it will now.

 

[Conservative65]

The value of a "general" or non-specialized degree is almost non-existent now.
Adding even more unqualified people for even more worthless degrees further dilutes the value.
Soon, and likely before Obama exits - you will see the liberals trying to push for lower standards as OVERWHELMING numbers of federal-grant students never graduate. In some schools less than 10% ever achieve a degree. But by all means - lets not address this huge issue, lets just keep piling up more failing students and pat eachother on the back for helping the under privileged.

I was just looking at degrees offered in the local community college. There are over 75 curriculums, and only one is in general studies. Over 90% of these degrees do provide valuable job skills.

After I retired I taught computer courses at a local community college. The courses I taught prepared students to pass certification exams in network administration and workstation assistant. Most of the students had no experience, yet almost all were able to find jobs in the field. Granted most of the jobs weren't that great but they were a start, something they wouldn't get with just a high school diploma.

So we should be willing to invest in something that you admit won't create any thingpo but not so great jobs? No thanks.

I didn't say that. Community colleges provide education that is applicable to the workplace, something most people don't get in high school. A person without experience and just training is not going get a great job but with a 2 year degree, they can get a start in a real career as oppose to the dead end jobs that most high school kids end up with. If a person want to go on to a four year school, most of the curriculum will transfer.

People forget that community colleges are more than just stepping stones to a 4 year school They offer degrees for dental hygienist, medical assistants, paralegals, office assistants, and dozens of other semi-professional jobs with good pay and a future. There are millions of jobs in the country that require more than a high school diploma but less than a bachelor's degree.

It's not true that most of the curriculum will transfer. The local technical college that I've referenced on other posts has English courses that are part of the Associate degrees it offers. However, it's not the same English that 4 year schools accepts. They are two different classes.

I understand all you say about more than high school but less than a bachelor degree job. However, NONE of that warrants forcing one person to pay for another person's kid to get any of it. The bullshit you spread about it will produce better paid workers who contribute to society is pure speculation.

It may depend on the community college. I'm not familiar with all of them. I've seen the curriculums in several schools. I would say in about 50% of the curriculums all courses transfer which is what most students choose. Community colleges offer degrees in subjects whose courses do not transfer such as Ceramics, Sculpture, Cosmetology, Dental Hygiene, and Medical Transcription but most students elect curriculums that do transfer such as Education, Computer Science, Business Administration, Accounting, Economics, Marketing, Management, Advertising, and Engineering, etc.....

Your argument against paying for other peoples education is exactly the same thing I hear at School Board Meeting whenever a tax increase or bond issue is proposed. "I don't want to pay to educate somebody else's kid." The reply is always, "Everybody benefits from better education and it always falls on deaf ears as I'm sure it will now.

"You would say . . "

That means nothing.

My argument isn't I don't want to. My argument is it's not my place to pay for college for someone that won't do it for his/her own kids. If they aren't doing it for their own, it damn sure isn't someone else's place to do if the kid's own parents won't do it.

I benefit from paying for MY kid's education. It's not my place to benefit a person's kid who won't pay for their own.

 

[Conservative65]

Sounds like you want the taxpayers to fund for your granddaughter what you aren't willing to do yourself. Fuck that. If you won't fund it for her, I damn sure won't do it.

Would you say the same about a kid just starting jr. high?

Not a valid comparison. 1 - 12 grades is not the same as demanding someone pay for college for another person's kid.

 

[Conservative65]

Evil, just evil. Edumacatin' Murkins? We don't want that goin' on. Next thing you know peoples will be makin' dem intelligent arguments and shit. Larnin' reason an' logic, maybe even... science.

Nope, we likes our sheeples dumbed down 'n' stoopid. Give 'em books an' dey gets all uppity. Starts readin' them Constitutionals. I tell ya the old church had it right when they make it illegal to read the Holy Babble. Infermation's a dangerous game, leave it to duh experts. We wunt da common peoples in line and iggerant. When you know too much, you crow too much.

Educating Americans isn't evil. Demanding one person be forced to pay for it for another person's kid when they won't do it for their own is evil

 

[Conservative65]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

So he will give extra funding to the golden apples, who would pass and get a job anyway. While the rest that community colleges are meant to be there for have to pack their bags, as the government attempts to make them as elitist as Harvard.

What this means is that community colleges will accept only students that get the government hand out for 'good grades' or those that can pay upfront.

Once again 'good intentions' of government is destroying American education, just like common core. Thanks Obama, for keeping the poor and struggling students out of education.

Community colleges generally have no academic requirements for admission other than graduation from high school and in some states even that is not required.

And you want taxpayers to fund something that requires nothing but a heartbeat and breathing to enter. Hard to get behind doing something that requires NOTHING to get in.

 

[Conservative65]

If we can piss away a trillion dollars on the Iraq fiasco, we certainly afford two years of community college for our own people.

Why shouldn't the parents pay for their own kids instead of expecting taxpayers to do it?

 

[Conservative65]

They already have that in Missouri, the A+ scholarship funded through lottery sales.

In South Carolina, we have the Education Lottery. It goes to the technical schools which is the type school being discussed.

 

[Conservative65]

Evil, just evil. Edumacatin' Murkins? We don't want that goin' on. Next thing you know peoples will be makin' dem intelligent arguments and shit. Larnin' reason an' logic, maybe even... science.

Nope, we likes our sheeples dumbed down 'n' stoopid. Give 'em books an' dey gets all uppity. Starts readin' them Constitutionals. I tell ya the old church had it right when they make it illegal to read the Holy Babble. Infermation's a dangerous game, leave it to duh experts. We wunt da common peoples in line and iggerant. When you know too much, you crow too much.

Exactly. It's a tragedy, a terrible tragedy to give people the chance to improve their lot it life, to train for a vocation or to prepare for a chance at completing a university degree. What a great loss to the country it would be to have more people prepared to be valuable members of the work force, to be self supporting, and to contribute in a positive way to society.

What's tragic is forcing someone like me and other taxpayers to do for someone else's kid what they won't do for their own kids.

 

[Esmeralda]

Evil, just evil. Edumacatin' Murkins? We don't want that goin' on. Next thing you know peoples will be makin' dem intelligent arguments and shit. Larnin' reason an' logic, maybe even... science.

Nope, we likes our sheeples dumbed down 'n' stoopid. Give 'em books an' dey gets all uppity. Starts readin' them Constitutionals. I tell ya the old church had it right when they make it illegal to read the Holy Babble. Infermation's a dangerous game, leave it to duh experts. We wunt da common peoples in line and iggerant. When you know too much, you crow too much.

Exactly. It's a tragedy, a terrible tragedy to give people the chance to improve their lot it life, to train for a vocation or to prepare for a chance at completing a university degree. What a great loss to the country it would be to have more people prepared to be valuable members of the work force, to be self supporting, and to contribute in a positive way to society.

What's tragic is forcing someone like me and other taxpayers to do for someone else's kid what they won't do for their own kids.

It is hardly 'tragic.' You people are using terms like 'evil' and 'tragic' for situations that are nothing near those concepts: you obviously don't understand what true tragedy and true evil are. I was using the term 'tragic' ironically; you may not have picked up on that. I was not using it literally.

All you conservatives are complaining about the cost. How much do we pay for prisons every year? There are approximately 2.25 million men and women in American prisons. In California, for example, 70% of them spent time in foster homes as children. First, we cannot at all expect foster parents to foot the bill to put a foster child through college. But, most of all, if you believe in the aphorism, "Idle hands are the devil's playground," then you can possibly understand that if we provide people with a vocation or trade, they are less likely to break the law and end up in prison.

Community colleges mainly offer vocational programs wherein people can learn a trade and be employable. If we foot the bill for 2 years of community college, we are very likely to have far more young people working than not, and, thus, end up with a much smaller prison population, meaning that the money going to supporting prisons (a negative thing) will go to education and training--a positive thing. You are paying for prisons now; why not pay for education and training instead? Oh, and btw, two years of community college is far less expensive than prison, or welfare for that matter.

 

[Esmeralda]

If we can piss away a trillion dollars on the Iraq fiasco, we certainly afford two years of community college for our own people.

Why shouldn't the parents pay for their own kids instead of expecting taxpayers to do it?

Most likely because their parents don't have the funds to pay for it. One thing we need to do in America is to get people to change their lives and change the cycle of poverty. If people are trained in a vocation, they are far more likely to succeed where their antecedents didn't. They are more likely to get out of the cycle of poverty, to be tax paying citizens, etc. Why anyone would be against that is mystifying.