Obamacare and affordability

[Freewill]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

Key phrase. Excellent work.

“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

So are you saying what the IRS estimates is not true? I hope you are correct. Now take your strawman to the hay barn he needs restuffed.

 

[healthmyths]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

http://www.consumerreports.org/health/resources/pdf/ncqa/health-reform.pdf

I just did and thank you for proving MY POINT!
Page 6
"If you are covered through a small employer or buy insurance on your own, insurers must spend at least 80% of premiums on medical care"

Insurance companies Already PAY an average of 80% of premiums out in claims...
FACTS:
FACTS why are people so ignorant when the Internet provides this!
1) % of premiums spent on Claims:
Total Premium % of Premium
in billions - 2009 paid in claims

• UnitedHealth Group $81,186 82.30%
• WellPoint $61,251 80.60%
• Aetna $30,951 76.90%
• Humana $28,946 83.20%
• Cigna $19,101 82.30%
• Health Net $15,367 83.90%

AVERAGE % of Premiums paid in claims: 81.53%!!!

SO BIG WOOH!!!! Why was it necessary to put into law something that was already being done!
NOW in fact because law "80%" companies like Health Net at 83.9% of every dollar will CUT BACK on paying out ONLY 80% !
Good going Obamacare!!!

 

[Freewill]

Just a further note about the "Pinocchio-in-Chief" from Washington Post ..gasp!

But it is also curious that the White House refuses to provide any documentary evidence that he actually used the shooting range at Camp David, since he claims he uses it “all the time,” or that a presidential friend has not come forward to confirm the president’s comments.
The White House?s curious silence about Obama?s claim of skeet shooting - The Washington Post

Just one more proof what Obama says and does are TWO different things!
He tells people what they want to hear .. "you can keep your plan".. but does it occur..NO!

"If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor.
I don't want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care."

FACT: "The result ObamaCare which today McKinsey & Company commissioned a survey of 1,329 U.S. private sector employers to measure their attitudes about healthcare reform concluded that 30% of all companies would stop providing health coverage once Obamacare kicked in in 2014.
US employer healthcare survey | McKinsey & Company

I do wonder why he says some of the stuff he says. If Bush would have been nearly as disengenous do you think the MSM would give him a pass? Just saying. I am surprised that Obama shot a gun at all but to lie about it, that does not surprise me in the least.

As I said, my company has already announced it wasn't paying after 2014.

 

[billyerock1991]

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

Key phrase. Excellent work.

“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family | CNS News

So are you saying what the IRS estimates is not true? I hope you are correct. Now take your strawman to the hay barn he needs restuffed.

if this is true which it is not... it will cost each and every person in that family of 5, 334.00 month per person ... right now I pay for myself 439.00 a month with a 5000 dollar deductible ... wife is paying 650.00 a month, with a 10,000 dollar deductible, I'll take that deal if its true ... when you see 20,000 dollars a year that's 4000 per person a year ... which turns out to be 334. 00 a month ... that's cheap compared to what I'm paying now ... so why are you bitching???

 

[healthmyths]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

Read the Law | HealthCare.gov

sorry had the wrong one

Hey rockhead!!!
page 5 of the same report YOU obviously being ignorant NEVER READ NOR UNDERSTOOD IMPLICATIONS NOR DID Consumer's UNION!
•Medicare Advantage changes: The extra Medicare payments that private Medicare Advantage plans have been getting will phase out over the next several years, starting in 2011. That may change your benefits or out-of-pocket costs if you are in one of these plans. But 76% of Medicare
recipients won’t be paying these extra costs, and Advantage plans that provide high-quality care will get bonus payments."

I AM A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MEMBER AND will be faced with the FOLLOWING INCREASED COSTS due to Obama hating for profit companies!

1) Did you know on traditional Medicare $96.40 a month is deducted from the recipient's social security check?
UNDER MY Advantage plan it is NOT deducted so Advantage plan members have $96.40 more per month?
Which is better a SS check with $96.40 more per month or $96.40 deducted each month? DUH!!!

2) Traditional Medicare requires 20% co-payment!
MY Advantage plan ZERO!
If as a traditional Medicare visits physician 3 times at $80/visit I would pay of the $240 in office visits, $48!
But under my Advantage plan I PAY ZERO!!! Which is better paying a 20% co-pay or NOT paying a co-pay??? DUH!!!

3) Advantage plan provides up to $50/month in free over the counter (OTC) like free 81mg aspirin reduces heart problems, among FREE items vitamins to
prevent problems why I even got a blood pressure monitor all under my OTC plan that I order each month off the internet and shipped to me!
With Traditional Medicare? zero nothing nada zip!
Which is better getting $20 /month in free vitamins,aspirin blood pressure meter,etc. OR nothing! DUH!!!

4) Finally it is widely know that Medicare has over $60 billion a year in waste,fraud and abuse!
Advantage charges Medicare an average of $800/month per member! THAT's IT! NO more NO less. So Medicare KNOWS exactly how much is going out!
Does Medicare have ANY other expenses? NOPE! How much easier to administer write $800 check once/month versus having 20 different for profit
companies that have underwritten Medicare contracting (Many are losing money!! that write hundreds in claim payments? DUH!!!!

After Obama's hatred of "for profits" is complete and Advantage plans abolished IT WILL COST ME OVER $3,000 a year NOW!
Wait till I have to go to the hospital under traditional Medicare easily $10,000 more then I would under my Advantage Plan!

SO the facts are in Rockyhead... YOU and the Consumer's Union are SHILLS and ignorant ones at that!!!

 

[billyerock1991]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

http://www.consumerreports.org/health/resources/pdf/ncqa/health-reform.pdf

I just did and thank you for proving MY POINT!
Page 6
"If you are covered through a small employer or buy insurance on your own, insurers must spend at least 80% of premiums on medical care"

Insurance companies Already PAY an average of 80% of premiums out in claims...
FACTS:
FACTS why are people so ignorant when the Internet provides this!
1) % of premiums spent on Claims:
Total Premium % of Premium
in billions - 2009 paid in claims

• UnitedHealth Group $81,186 82.30%
• WellPoint $61,251 80.60%
• Aetna $30,951 76.90%
• Humana $28,946 83.20%
• Cigna $19,101 82.30%
• Health Net $15,367 83.90%

AVERAGE % of Premiums paid in claims: 81.53%!!!

SO BIG WOOH!!!! Why was it necessary to put into law something that was already being done!
NOW in fact because law "80%" companies like Health Net at 83.9% of every dollar will CUT BACK on paying out ONLY 80% !
Good going Obamacare!!!

the reason was at any one point in time these insurers could change it so Obama went to 80% why because it wasn't law and now it is...

p's. you didn't give a source for your numbers

 

[healthmyths]

But...those of us with brains know that our payroll taxes are not higher now than when he said that. We think rationally. They went down.......then they went back to where they were. Like a miracle that didn't raise the tax but gave dummies a talking point anyway! Halle-fucking-luliah!

Thanks for making another person point this out to you. Have you touched everyone with this little bit of disingenuous horesehit?

IT Doesn't matter! The facts are people like YOU have a very very short attention span!
They just see their paychecks are less and the government is taking more!
THAT's FACTS idiot!

IF the short attention span Americans REMEMBER AS I DO that
FACT: $8 trillion was lost due to dot.com bust/9/11/worst hurricanes... and as a result Americans are paying $100 billion a year LESS since 2003!
FACT: That Those events REDUCED employment by 850,000 jobs.. destroyed, businesses wiped out .. THAT MEANT MONEY going out.

But see like YOU most Americans have forgotten that.
SO AGAIN because YOU have a short attention span: Taxes have gone up in spite of Obama's pledge "WILL NOT RAISE YOUR PAYROLL TAXES"

That is the truth. He could have lobbied his OWN Senate NOT to have them go up. He didn't!

So he broke his PLEDGE. He is a liar!

I would love for you to calmly explain the logic in that statement. I have demonstrated that I understand the matter. You are accusing me of doing that which you did. By saying that itvdoesn't matter....are you referring to poli-optics as being more important than facts? I think so.

"Calmly?"..
I am presenting facts to readers with obviously a SHORT attention span so I apologize for any "bold" color letters for emphasis.
"Logic" in what statement?


Obama broke his pledge "I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

Therefore he is a liar!

Pretty simple to me. He said NO payroll taxes increase.. yet they did and HE could have prevented that simply by vetoing! HE DIDN"T! He broke his pledge. He lied!

 

[healthmyths]

Amy Davidson writes in The New Yorker:

Cuts to the already highly regressive payroll tax are being allowed to expire, meaning that they will rise from 4.2 per cent to 6.2 per cent. Obama didn’t even fight for them. In his statement Tuesday night, Obama described the bill as “preventing a middle-class tax hike” that could have hurt families and sent the country back into a recession; that is true, but it allowed another middle-class tax hike that could have the same effect. He also said that middle-class families “will not see their income taxes go up.” That is false, unless one goes along with the idea — and most of Washington does — that payroll taxes, which are on income and levied by the federal government, are not federal income taxes.

 

[billyerock1991]

The 80/20 Rule: Providing Value and Rebates to Millions of Consumers

The new health reform law, the Affordable Care Act, holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that American families are reimbursed if health insurance companies don’t meet a fair standard of value.

Because of the Affordable Care Act, insurance companies now must reveal how much of premium dollars they actually spend on health care and how much they spend on administration, such as salaries and marketing. This information was not shared with consumers in the past. Not only is this information made available to consumers for the first time, If an insurance company spends less than 80% of premiums on medical care and quality (or less than 85% in the large group market, which is generally insurance provided through large employers), it must rebate the portion of premium dollars that exceeded this limit.[1] This 80/20 rule is commonly known as the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) rule.

On June 1, 2012, insurance companies nationwide submitted their annual MLR reports for coverage provided in 2011 to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Based on this data, insurance companies that didn’t meet the 80/20 rule will provide nearly 12.8 million Americans with more than $1.1 billion in rebates this year. Americans receiving the rebate will benefit from an average rebate of $151 per household.

Under the new health care law, rebates must be paid by Aug. 1 each year. As a result, 12.8 million Americans will see one of the following:

* a rebate check in the mail
* a lump-sum reimbursement to the same account that was used to pay the premium if it was paid by credit card or debit card
* a direct reduction in their future premiums
* their employer providing one of the above rebate methods, or applying the rebate in a manner that benefits its employees.

Consumers in every state will also receive notifications from their insurance company about the 80/20 rule. Under the Affordable Care Act, insurance companies will send a letter to subscribers every year they miss the 80/20 mark. The letter will explain the purpose of the 80/20 rule, how far the insurance company fell short of this goal, and the percentage of premium it owes in rebates. In 2012, insurance companies that meet or exceed the standard in the 2011 coverage year will send a notice to consumers explaining the purpose of the 80/20 rule and notifying consumers that they met or exceeded the standard. Insurance companies will provide consumers with unprecedented information about the value consumers get for every dollar spent on premiums. All of this information will be publicly available on HealthCare.gov.

The 80/20 rule is ensuring that insurance companies provide consumers value for their premium dollars. This rule works in combination with other consumer protections in the Affordable Care Act, like the program that reviews insurance companies’ rates to ensure that premium increases are not unreasonable. Insurance companies are now required to subject insurance premium rate increases of 10% or more to a new review process and justify these increases. Most states now have the authority to determine whether these increases are excessive, while HHS reviews rates in states that do not operate effective rate review programs. In making these determinations, HHS and the states closely review insurance companies’ 80/20 or MLR standards.
Summary of All Markets

Americans covered by insurance companies that failed to meet the MLR standard will receive an average rebate of $151 per family across all markets. The average rebate per family is expected to be $152 in the individual market, $174 in the small group market (which is generally insurance provided through small employers), and $135 in the large group market.. The states with average rebates above $500 per family are: Vermont ($807),Oregon ($777) and Indiana ($503) in the large group market; Georgia ($811), Ohio ($783), New York ($632), Alaska ($622), and Illinois ($551) in the small group market; and Mississippi ($651) and Alabama ($582) in the individual market.

Approximately 66.7 million consumers are insured by an insurance company that provides the required value for their premium dollars. This means that a large majority of consumers are insured by companies that meet or exceed the MLR standard: 62% of consumers in the individual market; 83% in the small group market; and 89% in the large group market.
Individual Market

In the individual market, companies that did not meet the standard will pay $394 million in rebates to an estimated 2.6 million households this year.

The average rebate in the individual market is approximately $152 per family. Subscribers in Mississippi ($651), Alabama ($582), Maryland ($496), and Delaware ($461) are likely to see the highest rebates.
Small Group Market (Insurance Provided Through Small Employers)

Over 1.8 million families, which include 3.3 million consumers enrolled in those policies, will see an average rebate of $174 provided to their employers in the small group market. Insurance companies in the small group market will issue $321 million in rebates this year.

The average rebate per family will be more than $500 in Alaska ($622), Georgia ($811), Illinois ($551), New York ($632), and Ohio ($783).
Large Group Market (Insurance Provided Through Large Employers)

Insurance companies in the large group market are expected to return $386 million in rebates. Generally these rebates will be paid directly to the employers to be distributed to their employees according to employees’ contributions to premium, benefiting approximately 2.9 million families or 5.3 million Americans. Though fewer companies in the large group market owe rebates, at a national level these companies are providing roughly the same dollar amount in terms of total rebates. This is because a larger number of consumers benefit from rebates in the large group market when compared to the individual or small group markets.

States whose health insurers have the highest average rebate in the large group market are Vermont ($807), Oregon ($777), Indiana ($503), Colorado ($475), Maine ($463), and New Jersey ($359).
Conclusion

For years, Americans have watched their premiums rise faster than their wages. Although these increases are partly due to rising medical costs and utilization of services, they are exacerbated by rising insurance company administrative costs (including marketing and salaries of CEOs) and profits, which contribute little or nothing to the care of patients or the health of consumers.

Many Americans are working hard to ensure that their families have health insurance coverage, and they do not deserve to have their premium dollars wasted on excessive administrative costs and profits. The Affordable Care Act and the 80/20 rule guarantee this right for consumers, and the over $1.1 billion in rebates provided through this rule show that insurance companies can no longer pass excessive administrative costs and profits on to consumers.

Appendix I: Total Rebates in All Markets for Consumers and Families, by State
Totals
State Total Rebates Total Consumers Benefiting from Rebates Average Rebate per Family
*USA* $1,101,372,250 12,760,266 $151
AK $1,280,908 2,712 $622
AL $4,220,331 13,556 $518
AR $7,787,177 115,461 $114
AZ $27,868,667 413,912 $118
CA $73,905,280 1,877,186 $65
CO $27,452,769 208,197 $227
CT $12,949,130 137,452 $168
DC $47,189,436 592,234 $157
DE $1,846,989 5,639 $351
FL $123,624,635 1,251,397 $168
GA $19,764,771 243,813 $134
HI $195,053 26,900 $15
IA $1,469,276 28,042 $100
ID $1,124,918 32,576 $70
IL $61,802,411 299,544 $380
IN $14,249,673 283,432 $99
KS $4,139,506 67,512 $91
KY $15,326,103 249,275 $114
LA $4,111,975 75,493 $94
MA $11,886,643 163,949 $140
MD $27,882,606 141,129 $340
ME $2,579,922 10,589 $463
MI $13,908,262 113,995 $214
MN $8,956,885 123,171 $160
MO $60,664,564 587,654 $173
MS $10,122,532 51,744 $329
MT $2,607,244 25,353 $194
NC $18,678,898 216,649 $158
ND $10,160 4,229 $5
NE $4,832,049 46,444 $215
NH $77,507 16,023 $9
NJ $7,670,066 44,998 $300
NM $0 0
NV $4,548,500 46,590 $180
NY $86,526,642 1,001,476 $138
OH $11,331,726 143,327 $139
OK $20,296,875 263,404 $126
OR $4,654,772 23,394 $368
PA $51,588,303 575,551 $165
RI $0 0
SC $19,630,152 251,632 $131
SD $47,948 1,370 $68
TN $28,810,557 240,298 $201
TX $166,975,840 1,516,721 $187
UT $3,696,778 109,893 $85
VA $43,127,639 686,738 $115
VT $2,346,018 4,636 $807
WA $594,031 7,681 $185
WI $10,369,793 282,812 $76
WV $2,703,790 16,434 $374
WY $1,112,043 6,290 $350

Territories Total Rebates Total Consumers Benefiting from Rebates Average Rebate per Family
GU $15,394,953 46,390 $852
MP $291,586 1,022 $782
PR $5,508,831 58,648 $225
VI $1,629,124 5,698 $462

Appendix II: Total Rebates by Market and State for Consumers and Families: Table shows state by state rebate data for the individual market, small group market, and large group market.

Appendix II: Total Rebates by Market and State for Consumers and Families

Note: People using assistive technology may not be able to fully access information in the data table above. Instead use the accessible data tables below:

Total Rebates by Market and State for Consumers and Families:

Individual Market | Small Group Market | Large Group Market


Individual Market
State Individual Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
*USA* $393,877,421 4,122,682 $152
AK $0 0 $0
AL $3,189,860 8,718 $582
AR $533,645 12,406 $75
AZ $12,692,460 218,153 $97
CA $20,506,850 956,514 $30
CO $3,062,448 109,460 $44
CT $3,989,874 47,990 $124
DC $151,721 1,908 $103
DE $963,002 2,948 $461
FL $47,257,109 308,944 $240
GA $2,889,653 85,442 $51
HI $0 0 $0
IA $0 0 $0
ID $144,303 1,083 $323
IL $7,794,746 60,787 $199
IN $2,838,374 42,320 $128
KS $3,535,948 54,763 $101
KY $232,937 2,830 $150
LA $2,858,378 23,866 $193
MA $226,702 2,487 $116
MD $12,102,203 38,696 $496
ME $0 0 $0
MI $11,872,643 99,919 $205
MN $494,492 30,512 $38
MO $16,329,386 181,007 $139
MS $6,133,419 15,789 $651
MT $1,685,051 16,825 $203
NC $3,111,464 26,185 $218
ND $10,160 4,229 $5
NE $3,704,559 29,827 $267
NH $0 0 $0
NJ $114,290 4,430 $25
NM $0 0 $0
NV $721,052 9,744 $115
NY $6,048,297 83,541 $90
OH $8,195,193 130,898 $106
OK $6,602,858 104,568 $110
OR $2,630,847 13,528 $360
PA $20,677,286 133,264 $238
RI $0 0 $0
SC $15,277,769 105,043 $227
SD $47,948 1,370 $68
TN $18,445,730 140,962 $207
TX $134,482,051 657,993 $356
UT $2,741,795 47,358 $145
VA $5,006,309 265,149 $32
VT $0 0 $0
WA $432,333 4,939 $161
WI $649,028 19,759 $63
WV $2,268,826 10,305 $383
WY $932,840 5,201 $356


Territories Small Group Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
GU $0 0 $0
MP $291,586 1,022 $782
PR $0 0 $0
VI $0 0 $0


Small Group Market
State Small Group Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
*USA* $321,116,259 3,295,798 $174
AK $1,280,908 2,712 $622
AL $1,030,471 4,838 $387
AR $5,666,923 81,139 $120
AZ $8,852,429 126,619 $131
CA $42,256,439 336,121 $206
CO $653,254 2,916 $403
CT $459,952 4,283 $162
DC $9,156,289 83,599 $186
DE $0 0 $0
FL $50,713,189 476,010 $190
GA $1,754,466 4,614 $811
HI $0 0 $0
IA $1,469,276 28,042 $100
ID $980,615 31,493 $63
IL $47,391,579 164,372 $551
IN $9,243,360 232,887 $78
KS $603,559 12,749 $58
KY $4,119,316 34,007 $207
LA $0 0 $0
MA $9,210,815 143,469 $130
MD $2,281,663 13,333 $310
ME $0 0 $0
MI $2,035,619 14,076 $293
MN $0 0 $0
MO $38,424,482 240,893 $276
MS $951,898 10,838 $150
MT $922,193 8,528 $180
NC $894,587 66,311 $21
ND $0 0 $0
NE $1,127,491 16,617 $131
NH $0 0 $0
NJ $0 0 $0
NM $0 0 $0
NV $3,445,694 27,187 $225
NY $3,663,077 7,958 $632
OH $3,136,533 12,429 $783
OK $13,282,727 118,029 $170
OR $1,209,614 7,359 $282
PA $345,698 3,991 $200
RI $0 0 $0
SC $4,297,790 145,401 $53
SD $0 0 $0
TN $3,251,333 46,106 $125
TX $14,307,687 351,754 $65
UT $97,392 33,534 $7
VA $22,125,579 236,171 $181
VT $0 0 $0
WA $0 0 $0
WI $2,948,238 122,516 $48
WV $434,964 6,130 $334
WY $179,203 1,089 $319


Territories Small Group Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
GU $3,997,788 12,018 $1,167
MP $0 0 $0
PR $1,283,046 17,966 $191
VI $1,629,124 5,698 $462


Large Group Market
State Large Group Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
*USA* $386,378,570 5,341,787 $135
AK $0 0 $0
AL $0 0 $0
AR $1,586,610 21,916 $114
AZ $6,323,778 69,140 $170
CA $11,141,991 584,551 $43
CO $23,737,066 95,821 $475
CT $8,499,305 85,179 $202
DC $37,881,427 506,727 $152
DE $883,987 2,691 $278
FL $25,654,337 466,444 $94
GA $15,120,652 153,757 $172
HI $195,053 26,900 $15
IA $0 0 $0
ID $0 0 $0
IL $6,616,086 74,385 $176
IN $2,167,939 8,225 $503
KS $0 0 $0
KY $10,973,850 212,439 $97
LA $1,253,598 51,627 $43
MA $2,449,125 17,993 $203
MD $13,498,740 89,100 $268
ME $2,579,922 10,589 $463
MI $0 0 $0
MN $8,462,393 92,660 $197
MO $5,910,696 165,755 $63
MS $3,037,215 25,117 $202
MT $0 0 $0
NC $14,672,847 124,153 $237
ND $0 0 $0
NE $0 0 $0
NH $77,507 16,023 $9
NJ $7,555,776 40,568 $359
NM $0 0 $0
NV $381,755 9,660 $105
NY $76,815,268 909,977 $139
OH $0 0 $0
OK $411,290 40,807 $18
OR $814,312 2,507 $777
PA $30,565,319 438,296 $137
RI $0 0 $0
SC $54,594 1,188 $85
SD $0 0 $0
TN $7,113,493 53,230 $253
TX $18,186,102 506,974 $61
UT $857,591 29,001 $81
VA $15,995,751 185,417 $167
VT $2,346,018 4,636 $807
WA $161,698 2,742 $303
WI $6,772,527 140,537 $104
WV $0 0 $0
WY $0 0 $0


Territories Small Group Market
Rebates Enrollees Benefiting from Rebates Avg Rebate
per
Family
GU $11,397,165 34,372 $779
MP $0 0 $0
PR $4,225,785 40,682 $238
VI $0 0 $0

Posted on: June 21, 2012

 

[billyerock1991]

SO you can see why I question your information

 

[LoneLaugher]

IT Doesn't matter! The facts are people like YOU have a very very short attention span!
They just see their paychecks are less and the government is taking more!
THAT's FACTS idiot!

IF the short attention span Americans REMEMBER AS I DO that
FACT: $8 trillion was lost due to dot.com bust/9/11/worst hurricanes... and as a result Americans are paying $100 billion a year LESS since 2003!
FACT: That Those events REDUCED employment by 850,000 jobs.. destroyed, businesses wiped out .. THAT MEANT MONEY going out.

But see like YOU most Americans have forgotten that.
SO AGAIN because YOU have a short attention span: Taxes have gone up in spite of Obama's pledge "WILL NOT RAISE YOUR PAYROLL TAXES"

That is the truth. He could have lobbied his OWN Senate NOT to have them go up. He didn't!

So he broke his PLEDGE. He is a liar!

I would love for you to calmly explain the logic in that statement. I have demonstrated that I understand the matter. You are accusing me of doing that which you did. By saying that itvdoesn't matter....are you referring to poli-optics as being more important than facts? I think so.

"Calmly?"..
I am presenting facts to readers with obviously a SHORT attention span so I apologize for any "bold" color letters for emphasis.
"Logic" in what statement?


Obama broke his pledge "I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

Therefore he is a liar!

Pretty simple to me. He said NO payroll taxes increase.. yet they did and HE could have prevented that simply by vetoing! HE DIDN"T! He broke his pledge. He lied!

OK genius. Is the payroll tax higher now than when President Obama made that statement?

This is a yes or no question.

 

[healthmyths]

SO you can see why I question your information

Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):

76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
80.6% - WellPoint

 

[healthmyths]

I would love for you to calmly explain the logic in that statement. I have demonstrated that I understand the matter. You are accusing me of doing that which you did. By saying that itvdoesn't matter....are you referring to poli-optics as being more important than facts? I think so.

"Calmly?"..
I am presenting facts to readers with obviously a SHORT attention span so I apologize for any "bold" color letters for emphasis.
"Logic" in what statement?


Obama broke his pledge "I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

Therefore he is a liar!

Pretty simple to me. He said NO payroll taxes increase.. yet they did and HE could have prevented that simply by vetoing! HE DIDN"T! He broke his pledge. He lied!

OK genius. Is the payroll tax higher now than when President Obama made that statement?

This is a yes or no question.

Did Obama PROMISE NO PAYROLL TAXES INCREASE Yes!
Did 77% of Americans see LESS in their paychecks and AND INCREASE in what was paid in TAXES? YES!
So Obama LIED. Payroll taxes increased on 77% of Americans and GUESS WHAT.. that's what Americans see is the bottom line.. they have less money to take home because Obama LIED when he said there would be no increases! THAT IS A FACT!!!
Anything else is parsing. Is nuancing. Right back to "it depends on what 'is' is"!!!! By Bill Clinton under oath!

 

[Greenbeard]

This is the opportunity for those who support Obamatax to show me the savings, TO ME or ANYONE. This is important to me and really may keep me working until I physically can't work then I don't know what will happen.

Discussing savings implies talking about numbers; this thread doesn't have any. But what do you really care about the pre-Medicare population? When the age rating bands that protect the premiums of older workers came out, your ilk called them a tax on the young. When CBO predicted that the ACA will allow some older workers to retire earlier, that small labor force decline became a "job killer" to you folks.

Changes to the insurance market, including provisions that prohibit insurers from denying coverage to people because of preexisting conditions and that restrict how much
prices can vary with an individual’s age or health status, will increase the appeal of health insurance plans offered outside the workplace for older workers. As a result, some older workers will choose to retire earlier than they otherwise would.

 

[healthmyths]

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (CBSDC) — A medical company is blaming President Obama’s health care law for the layoffs of nearly 100 people.
Smith & Nephew says a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices in the “Obamacare” law caused the layoffs in the Memphis and Andover, Mass., offices.
“The nearly $30 billion tax on medical devices that took effect Jan. 1, 2013, has impacted a number of companies across the U.S.,” the company said in a statement to WHBQ-TV.
Medical Company Blames ?Obamacare? For Layoffs Of Nearly 100 People « CBS DC

So NOW we have at least 100 people that they and their employers WERE Paying Payroll taxes Say at average salary of $40,000 a year
and taxes of 15.3% or $6,120 per person no longer being collected or $612,000 LOSS IN FEDERAL Revenue!
NOw these same people are going to collect at least $300/week for 99 weeks.. where will that $2,970,000 come from??
FUTA which is no longer being paid by the EMPLOYER!!!

Tell me did the minute planning over-grasping BIG idea people at Obamacare Central Planning take that in to account?

See it is these "devil in the details" LITTLE points that add up.

Just an educational point. We would NOT be in this ENTIRE Obamanation of health care reform if it hadn't been for this meddling by Congress!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.

So if a hospital takes Medicare payments they MUST see a patient regardless of ability to pay..
GEEZ doesn't that sound great? Isn't that the compassion that we all come to expect of our government?

Well today because of that "compassion" some hospitals OVERCHARGE Medicare by 6,000% to recoup the above "unreimbursed" services!

Then the other major revelation to people should be the $850 billion a year that physicians 90% in fact say in their own words..
In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature. Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests, 29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations, 14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.

Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.
The costs of defensive medicine


SAVINGS of $50 to $600 billion a year!!!!!
Put that into perspective if just $100 billion a year were saved in duplicate tests,etc. how much lower would premiums be reduced?

 

[LoneLaugher]

"Calmly?"..
I am presenting facts to readers with obviously a SHORT attention span so I apologize for any "bold" color letters for emphasis.
"Logic" in what statement?


Obama broke his pledge "I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

Therefore he is a liar!

Pretty simple to me. He said NO payroll taxes increase.. yet they did and HE could have prevented that simply by vetoing! HE DIDN"T! He broke his pledge. He lied!

OK genius. Is the payroll tax higher now than when President Obama made that statement?

This is a yes or no question.

Did Obama PROMISE NO PAYROLL TAXES INCREASE Yes!
Did 77% of Americans see LESS in their paychecks and AND INCREASE in what was paid in TAXES? YES!
So Obama LIED. Payroll taxes increased on 77% of Americans and GUESS WHAT.. that's what Americans see is the bottom line.. they have less money to take home because Obama LIED when he said there would be no increases! THAT IS A FACT!!!
Anything else is parsing. Is nuancing. Right back to "it depends on what 'is' is"!!!! By Bill Clinton under oath!

Nope. That is not what Americans see. That is what partisan hack Americans see.

Are you dishonest or stupid? I'm guessing both.

 

[Freewill]

This is the opportunity for those who support Obamatax to show me the savings, TO ME or ANYONE. This is important to me and really may keep me working until I physically can't work then I don't know what will happen.

Discussing savings implies talking about numbers; this thread doesn't have any. But what do you really care about the pre-Medicare population? When the age rating bands that protect the premiums of older workers came out, your ilk called them a tax on the young. When CBO predicted that the ACA will allow some older workers to retire earlier, that small labor force decline became a "job killer" to you folks.

Changes to the insurance market, including provisions that prohibit insurers from denying coverage to people because of preexisting conditions and that restrict how much
prices can vary with an individual’s age or health status, will increase the appeal of health insurance plans offered outside the workplace for older workers. As a result, some older workers will choose to retire earlier than they otherwise would.

More liberal obstruction. This has nothing to do with what YOU say I think or anyone else. Obama and your controlling ilk types jammed this down America's throat. It is what YOU and your ilk wanted. AS you pointed out it is NOT what I or my ilk wanted. But that doesn't matter it is what it is.

Now if you can put your straw man BS aside tell me why the ACA is good for YOU and why you wanted it. Then maybe I can see that it may be good for me. So far not one Obama supporter has said that the largest tax increase in American history will be good for YOU or for ME. And if you can't contribute that little bit then STFU.

BTW, Obamacare being a tax makes breaks Obama's promise concerning taxes.

 

[Greenbeard]

Now if you can put your straw man BS aside tell me why the ACA is good for YOU and why you wanted it.

It's good for me because I live in this country and I or someone I care about is eventually going to have to interact with what's historically been an unaccountable, inefficient, dangerous, and expensive delivery system. A system that's been marred by bad financial incentives for providers, poor organization, serious under investments in primary care, and inadequate infrastructure for identifying, rewarding, and encouraging quality.

For the first time we're seeing steps toward a delivery system that can meet the challenges of the 21st century. That's why it's good for me.

 

[healthmyths]

Now if you can put your straw man BS aside tell me why the ACA is good for YOU and why you wanted it.

It's good for me because I live in this country and I or someone I care about is eventually going to have to interact with what's historically been an unaccountable, inefficient, dangerous, and expensive delivery system. A system that's been marred by bad financial incentives for providers, poor organization, serious under investments in primary care, and inadequate infrastructure for identifying, rewarding, and encouraging quality.

For the first time we're seeing steps toward a delivery system that can meet the challenges of the 21st century. That's why it's good for me.

1) Not once did you mention the $850 billion a year that the experts i.e. doctors attest THEY spend needlessly out of FEAR of lawsuits. This is the primary cause of higher health care costs!
2) Not once did you mention the falsehood there are 50 million uninsured that at least 6 yes votes passed because they thought there were 50 million!
In fact of the 50 million, 10 million not citizens per Census.. 14 million ARE covered already by Medicaid finally 18 million people counted as uninsured could afford at $50k average income to participate with employers' insurance but since they spend less then $1,000 a year out of their OWN pocket why are they being counted in this phony number???
8 million truly uninsured that want coverage people could have legitimately health coverage - simply by doing what Obamacare is doing now to the tanning industry 10% tax but instead of a measly $20 million tax the $250 billion lawyers WHO created the FEAR of lawsuits!
$25 billion a year in taxes from millionaire,ambulance chasing lawyers would provide coverage for the 8 million who need it!
NO messing around gigantic misplaced, totally ignorant Obamacare!

But no Obama wanted GIGANTIC changes for his legacy... WELL he's getting GIGANTIC disruption of 1/6th of the economy when all he had to do was ignore the $300 million lawyers paid to Congress and Obama in 2008 and put in this simple mechanism:
When a hospital under EMTALA sees an uninsured. the claims are sent to a for profit low bid insurance company.
Patient registered and hospital claims paid!
In doing so the hospital agrees to audits of claims filed with Medicare/insurance companies and as it is now some hospitals are overcharging 6,000% for services paid by Medicare. I have access to a database of these 6,000 hospitals and what they bill Medicare for services that cost FAR less.
This would also reduce dramatically Medicare/insurance costs!

 

[billyerock1991]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

Read the Law | HealthCare.gov

sorry had the wrong one

Hey rockhead!!!
page 5 of the same report YOU obviously being ignorant NEVER READ NOR UNDERSTOOD IMPLICATIONS NOR DID Consumer's UNION!
•Medicare Advantage changes: The extra Medicare payments that private Medicare Advantage plans have been getting will phase out over the next several years, starting in 2011. That may change your benefits or out-of-pocket costs if you are in one of these plans. But 76% of Medicare
recipients won’t be paying these extra costs, and Advantage plans that provide high-quality care will get bonus payments."

I AM A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MEMBER AND will be faced with the FOLLOWING INCREASED COSTS due to Obama hating for profit companies!

1) Did you know on traditional Medicare $96.40 a month is deducted from the recipient's social security check?
UNDER MY Advantage plan it is NOT deducted so Advantage plan members have $96.40 more per month?
Which is better a SS check with $96.40 more per month or $96.40 deducted each month? DUH!!!

2) Traditional Medicare requires 20% co-payment!
MY Advantage plan ZERO!
If as a traditional Medicare visits physician 3 times at $80/visit I would pay of the $240 in office visits, $48!
But under my Advantage plan I PAY ZERO!!! Which is better paying a 20% co-pay or NOT paying a co-pay??? DUH!!!

3) Advantage plan provides up to $50/month in free over the counter (OTC) like free 81mg aspirin reduces heart problems, among FREE items vitamins to
prevent problems why I even got a blood pressure monitor all under my OTC plan that I order each month off the internet and shipped to me!
With Traditional Medicare? zero nothing nada zip!
Which is better getting $20 /month in free vitamins,aspirin blood pressure meter,etc. OR nothing! DUH!!!

4) Finally it is widely know that Medicare has over $60 billion a year in waste,fraud and abuse!
Advantage charges Medicare an average of $800/month per member! THAT's IT! NO more NO less. So Medicare KNOWS exactly how much is going out!
Does Medicare have ANY other expenses? NOPE! How much easier to administer write $800 check once/month versus having 20 different for profit
companies that have underwritten Medicare contracting (Many are losing money!! that write hundreds in claim payments? DUH!!!!

After Obama's hatred of "for profits" is complete and Advantage plans abolished IT WILL COST ME OVER $3,000 a year NOW!
Wait till I have to go to the hospital under traditional Medicare easily $10,000 more then I would under my Advantage Plan!

SO the facts are in Rockyhead... YOU and the Consumer's Union are SHILLS and ignorant ones at that!!!

there you go agiain quoting from some blogger ... read the god damn fuckin' bill