Obamacare passed because of"basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter "

[NYcarbineer]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

 

[healthmyths]

Again, your post was very hard to read with all the grammatical errors, slow down a little, cowboy!

"They don't need as they are under 34 and they can afford as the make OVER $50,000 but don't want their employers' health plan."

^^^^ huh?

Sounds like an answer you might hear from a beauty pageant contestant.

Yup... true! I have dumbed it down considerably because "stupid american voters" like Cabbie can't take the time.."bro"...!

Outside of ONE letter "y" in "the'y'" missing what else is wrong?
Everything I wrote is true... read the link which is what non-stupid american voters would do as it provides further depth which can if the reader is scholarly enough to take the time for the provided validation.
Uninsured by Choice Update NCPA

 

[Vigilante]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

The same thing the 10 million Americans did when they lost their healthcare under Obumacare, except they will pay LESS for it now!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

The same thing the 10 million Americans did when they lost their healthcare under Obumacare, except they will pay LESS for it now!

How will anyone pay less than the expanded Medicaid benefit, or the subsidized exchange insurance?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

This is a very good point, any extra costs uncured by the ACA will not be refunded by repealing it.

It will cost even more cash to repeal it and we would be in a similar boat with regards to skyrocketing costs and pre-existing conditions, etc.

 

[R.D.]

 

[Vigilante]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

The same thing the 10 million Americans did when they lost their healthcare under Obumacare, except they will pay LESS for it now!

How will anyone pay less than the expanded Medicaid benefit, or the subsidized exchange insurance?

UNEXPAND MEDICAID, and a VAST MAJORITY of the people were paying LESS before this shit! I feel NO PAIN for the uninsured, get the economy BACK and the people that can't afford it, will be able TO AFFORD it!

 

[paulitician]

Hey, the man was just being honest. Gotta give him props on that. I mean, the Democratic Party Base is mostly made up of ignorant Moocher whiners, Illegals, Felons, and dumb White Communists/Progessives. The man is Spot-On. So now it's time to tweak or ditch the Obamacare debacle all-together.

Nope, get rid of it entirely. It's already cost us to much. The longer it's around the more damage it will do.

I agree, the whole thing needs to go. But i'm doubtful the Republicans will do that. So at the very least, end the Mandate and tweak other parts of the debacle.

 

[healthmyths]

The ‘Real’ Uninsured

• The Census Bureau estimates that 45.7 million lacked health insurance at any given time in 2007. But fewer lacked coverage for the full year, and more did without for one or more months during the year. All three numbers are likely to be higher for 2008 due to massive job losses.

• Twenty-six percent of the uninsured are eligible for some form of public coverage but do not make use of it, according to The National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. This is sometimes, but not always, a matter of choice.

• Twenty-one percent of the uninsured are immigrants, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But that figure includes both those who are here legally and those who are not. The number of illegal immigrants who are included in the official statistics is unknown.

• Twenty percent of the uninsured have family incomes of greater than $75,000 per year, according to the Census Bureau. But this does not necessarily mean they have access to insurance. Even higher-income jobs don’t always offer employer-sponsored insurance, and not everyone who wants private insurance is able to get it.

• Forty percent of the uninsured are young, according to KFF. But speculation that they pass up insurance because of their good health is unjustified. KFF reports that many young people lack insurance because it’s not available to them, and people who turn down available insurance tend to be in worse health, not better, according to the Institute of Medicine

Analysis
Appearing on NBC’s "Meet the Press" on Sunday, June 21, former presidential candidate Fred Thompson said that the number of the uninsured in the U.S. has been overstated: "The 45 million … figure of uninsured is probably about twice the real number of people who can’t afford insurance or don’t have access to it really, who are not illegal aliens."

First we should note that the official Census figure for 2007 was actually 45.7 million. Thompson shaved off 700,000 uninsured persons by rounding down when he should have rounded up. And the figure for 2008 is likely to be higher, considering the millions who have lost their jobs and benefits since that figure was reported last August.

But what about his claim that illegal immigrants and middle-class earners who don’t feel like buying insurance are swelling the ranks of the uninsured? That theme has been popular lately, appearing in articles and editorials from the National Review Institute and Investor’s Business Daily, among others.

We’ve written before about the makeup of the uninsured, finding that according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79 percent are U.S. citizens, more than 80 percent are from families where at least one person holds a job, and two-thirds earn less than 200 percent of the federal poverty threshold – i.e., less than $42,406 for a family of four in 2007, the most recent year for which Census has figures for the uninsured. (KFF is a nonpartisan think tank that describes itself as "an evidence-based voice for people in the health system," especially the uninsured and "those most vulnerable and disadvantaged." It does not lobby for or against legislation.)

This does, indisputably, mean that 21 percent are not U.S. citizens (they’re both legal and illegal immigrants) and one-third earn more than 200 percent of the poverty level. Does this mean that the "real number" of the uninsured should be lower? Let’s look at some of the common claims.

Claim: The Census numbers are overstated. This depends on what is meant by "uninsured." The Census Bureau’s long-term Survey of Income and Program Participationfound that 27.6 million people were without insurance for the entire year in 2005, and 65.9 million were uninsured for at least one month during the year.

The 45.7 million figure for 2007 comes from a different survey, the Current Population Survey. CPS asks about coverage during the previous year, but the Census states that the results are a better indication of the number of persons who were without insurance at any given moment during the year:

Census: ecause health insurance coverage status can change over the course of a year, answering questions about this long reference period may lead to response errors. For example, some people may report their insurance coverage status at the time of their interview rather than their coverage status during the previous calendar year. Compared with other national surveys, the CPS ASEC’s estimate of the number of people without health insurance more closely approximates the number of people who were uninsured at a specific point in time during the year than the number of people uninsured for the entire year.

The SIPP survey, which asks the same group of people questions every four months, found that 45.2 million were uninsured in the month of December 2005, a point-in-time measurement that does indeed closely approximate the widely cited Census finding.

Claim: Many of the uninsured are not U.S. citizens. About 9.7 million of the uninsured are immigrants, both legal and illegal. The National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation estimates that 5.6 million of these are undocumented, but there are no hard data on that – NIHCM stresses that "the CPS does not collect information on legal status among non-citizens." Immigrants, especially new immigrants, are more likely to be uninsured than citizens. They are also less likely than citizens to use expensive emergency care, according to research from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Claim: Many of the uninsured can afford private health care. About 9.1 million of the uninsured have household incomes greater than $75,000, and 10 percent (about 4.7 million)make more than 400 percent of the federal poverty threshold, according to KFF. In 2007, the most recent year of Census statistics, a family of four at 400 percent of the poverty level would have a household income of $84,812 or more.

So it’s true that many of the uninsured could, in theory, spare the $3,354 average annual employee contribution for employer-sponsored family coverage, or even the $5,799 average premium for individually purchased family coverage. But it’s also true that 66 percent of the uninsured make less than 200 percent of the poverty level according to KFF, which is less than $42,406 for a family of four in 2007. And a family’s premium costs may actually be much higher than the average for individually purchased insurance, depending on the number of dependents, the ages of family members, their state of health and the state in which they live. For instance, the average annual premium for individually purchased family coverage in Massachusetts, according to America’s Health Insurance Plans’ Center for Policy and Research, was $16,897 in 2006-2007 (before the state changed its insurance plan), and in New York it was $12,254.

Furthermore, even those who can afford coverage cannot always get it. AHIP found that 72 percent of 2006 applications for health insurance were eventually approved, while the rest were withdrawn, not processed, or denied for medical or non-medical reasons. And of those who got coverage, 11 percent had to pay a higher rate than requested.

Claim: Many of the uninsured are young people who think they’re invincible. The National Review Institute writes: "More than half of the uninsured are between 18 and 34 years of age, a group which has relatively few expensive health issues and for whom self-insuring (paying their own medical bills) makes sense." Actually, only about 40 percent of the uninsured are between 18 and 34, according to the Census.

Is this younger group uninsured by choice? KFF said young people lack insurance for avariety of reasons: "Many low-income young adults lack access to affordable private coverage since few are full-time students or full-time employees, few have jobs that offer employer coverage, and few have access to coverage through their parents."

Similarly, the Institute of Medicine reports that "adults who decline offers of [employer-sponsored insurance] … are more likely to be in poor health with high-cost medical conditions." So those who turn down available coverage don’t always do so because they’re in great health and don’t want to pay for it. Many find it to be unavailable, or can’t afford it at the price offered.

Claim: Many of the uninsured already are eligible for public coverage. That’s true – NIHCM found that in 2006, 12 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (formerly SCHIP) but were not enrolled. These were disproportionately children – 6.1 million of the 12 million are under the age of 18, versus only 20 percent of the uninsured as a whole. NIHCM posits a number of possible explanations: People may be unaware of the programs or not know how to enroll in them; they may experience administrative hurdles to enrolling or staying in the program; or they may fear the stigma of public assistance. Some states also periodically institute CHIP enrollment caps, which may keep eligible people out of public programs. Utah, Georgia and Florida all had caps in 2007.

Claim: The uninsured get billions of dollars worth of health care. Investor’s Business Daily writes: "The notion that the uninsured are without health care is bogus, as well. They consumed an estimated $116 billion worth of health care in 2008, according to the advocacy group Families USA." Families USA did say that, but the figure is for the total costs, including payments that the uninsured made personally. The figure also covers people who were uninsured for any part of the year, many of whom may have been covered by insurance for the remainder of the year.

Families USA found that the uninsured received $42.7 billion in care in 2008 that wasn’t paid for either out of pocket or by other private or public funds. A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found a slightly higher amount of uncompensated care. KFF found that those who are uninsured for at least part of the year receive $84.3 billion in care during the time they are uninsured, $30 billion of which is paid for out of pocket, leaving $54.3 billion uncompensated.

The uninsured still receive much less medical care and consume fewer medical resources than the insured. KFF found that those who were insured year-round incurred much greater health expenses than the full-year or part-year uninsured – $4,463 per person, versus $1,686 for the full-year uninsured and $2,983 for the part-year uninsured, $2,601 of which was incurred while they had insurance.

In short, it’s true that many of the 45.7 million "uninsured" could find coverage through existing government programs or pay for their own coverage if they chose. Some, perhaps 6 million, are illegal immigrants who would not receive coverage under any proposal now being considered. Do these amount to half the total, as former Sen. Thompson implied? That’s possible, but we judge that the available evidence doesn’t support that conclusion.

The 8216 Real 8217 Uninsured

AGAIN tell me why the CENSUS SAID ON page:
Note:9.6 million NOT Citizens...

Income Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States 2009 - Income Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau


The 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) identified 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured in 2003. Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association contracted with the Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) to provide a detailed analysis of the uninsured identified by the Census Bureau, which found:
■ Nearly one-third [14 million...]'were reachable through public programs, such as Medicaid and the SCHIP program for children
■ One-fifth earn $50,000 or more annually and may be able to afford coverage


https://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

• From 1993 to 2002 the number of uninsured people in households with annual incomes above $75,000 increased by 114 percent.
• The number of uninsured in households with annual incomes from $50,000 to $75,000 increased by 57 percent.
• By contrast, the number of uninsured people in households with incomes under $25,000 fell by 17 percent.

Uninsured by Choice Update NCPA

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Hey, the man was just being honest. Gotta give him props on that. I mean, the Democratic Party Base is mostly made up of ignorant Moocher whiners, Illegals, Felons, and dumb White Communists/Progessives. The man is Spot-On. So now it's time to tweak or ditch the Obamacare debacle all-together.

Nope, get rid of it entirely. It's already cost us to much. The longer it's around the more damage it will do.

I agree, the whole thing needs to go. But i'm doubtful the Republicans will do that. So at the very least, end the Mandate and tweak other parts of the debacle.

You want pre-existing conditions again with skyrocketing overall costs? You want 1 and 2 million dollar lifetime caps?

 

[paulitician]

Hey, the man was just being honest. Gotta give him props on that. I mean, the Democratic Party Base is mostly made up of ignorant Moocher whiners, Illegals, Felons, and dumb White Communists/Progessives. The man is Spot-On. So now it's time to tweak or ditch the Obamacare debacle all-together.

Nope, get rid of it entirely. It's already cost us to much. The longer it's around the more damage it will do.

I agree, the whole thing needs to go. But i'm doubtful the Republicans will do that. So at the very least, end the Mandate and tweak other parts of the debacle.

You want pre-existing conditions again with skyrocketing overall costs? You want 1 and 2 million dollar lifetime caps?

At the very least, end the Mandate. But other parts need to be scrapped too. Personally, i'd like to see the whole thing scrapped. But i don't think the Republicans have the stomach for that. So i'll have to take what i can get.

 

[healthmyths]

My whole point in these comments is that Obamacare depends on the "stupidity of the American voter" to believe the information they put over on people including the fundamentally flawed number of "uninsured"!
with 24 million definitely either not legal or not enrolled due to inefficiencies of government which to me showed how poorly the Obamacare would operate if they couldn't even get a grasp on how many were eligible for government insurance, i.e. 24 million!
Then we have the out and out strong arming of people THAT don't want or need health insurance! At least 18 million that are under 34, make over $50,000 a year and YET they are falsely being included in the 46 million figure!
My point is if the government can't even get it straight how many need something WHY in the hell destroy the system for the other 99.9% of us?

 

[Jackson]

Okay so you repeal the ACA and 10 million Americans lose their newly acquired healthcare coverage.

What do they do?

This is a very good point, any extra costs uncured by the ACA will not be refunded by repealing it.

It will cost even more cash to repeal it and we would be in a similar boat with regards to skyrocketing costs and pre-existing conditions, etc.

It is the fault of Congress that we have this mess. Expand Medicaid for the time being while a new program that is simpler and transparent such as buying insurance across state lines, is available to all citizens. We owe it to the citizens to give them a good program that is available to them in the most efficient and earliest time possible...or go back to what we had before.

 

[paulitician]

My whole point in these comments is that Obamacare depends on the "stupidity of the American voter" to believe the information they put over on people including the fundamentally flawed number of "uninsured"!
with 24 million definitely either not legal or not enrolled due to inefficiencies of government which to me showed how poorly the Obamacare would operate if they couldn't even get a grasp on how many were eligible for government insurance, i.e. 24 million!
Then we have the out and out strong arming of people THAT don't want or need health insurance! At least 18 million that are under 34, make over $50,000 a year and YET they are falsely being included in the 46 million figure!
My point is if the government can't even get it straight how many need something WHY in the hell destroy the system for the other 99.9% of us?

The asshole was just being honest. I'll actually give him props on that. The Law is very flawed and Un-American. Hopefully it'll be tweaked, or scrapped all-together.

 

[gipper]

Even a hardcore leftist claims the MSM would explode if Gruber were an R.

Mika Admits If Gruber Were Republican MSM Would Be Exploding

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Libs dont care how it got passed. As long as they get their subsidized obamacare off the backs of the American people it's all good.

 

[Ava]

Ain't he jest the bestest thing that evr happened to the party of Democrats???

And the Gallup poll this morning reflects it all:

Gallup: Dems plunge to record low

Gallup Dems plunge to record low - Lucy McCalmont - POLITICO

 

[healthmyths]

Hey, the man was just being honest. Gotta give him props on that. I mean, the Democratic Party Base is mostly made up of ignorant Moocher whiners, Illegals, Felons, and dumb White Communists/Progessives. The man is Spot-On. So now it's time to tweak or ditch the Obamacare debacle all-together.

Nope, get rid of it entirely. It's already cost us to much. The longer it's around the more damage it will do.

I agree, the whole thing needs to go. But i'm doubtful the Republicans will do that. So at the very least, end the Mandate and tweak other parts of the debacle.

You want pre-existing conditions again with skyrocketing overall costs? You want 1 and 2 million dollar lifetime caps?

And YOU tell me how many bogus "pre-existing number" Obama claimed? Over 155 million! Do you understand that Obama was counting on you not asking the simple question.."If 155 million have pre-existing conditions then how come 85% of Americans have insurance?"
Do you see? This administration was pumping the numbers because they knew the "stupidity of the American voters" would not ask!
The fact is less the 1.5 million people were either denied or paid higher premiums but NO where need half of all Americans!

a total of 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama s Pre-existing Conditions Whopper - Forbes

so again... how can anyone trust what Obama administration puts out when just these two common sense numbers should raise all the red flags
regarding information about Obamacare and even more the ability to EXECUTE! Again remember 14 million counted as uninsured all needed to be done was be registered with Medicaid or SCHIP! If Obamacare can't even keep current programs valid how in the hell 1/6th of the economy?

 

[healthmyths]

BUT folks!!! What was the "health care crisis" the required ACA?
Was it the bogus "46 million uninsured" figure that made it a crisis??? There was absolutely NO NEED for any health care legislation!
Case in point how can we have any confidence that any bill would fix any problem if we first can't agree on the magnitude?
Almost everyone believing the "crisis" issue used the 46 million uninsured figure for justification.
BUT IT IS A BOGUS number that EVEN the Census agrees was wrong!
The Hippocratic Corpus, states "first do no harm" is what EVERY American voter should consider when voting for a representative...i.e. will this person understand that first don't add more problems to existing problems!

 

[Mac1958]

Even a hardcore leftist claims the MSM would explode if Gruber were an R.

Mika Admits If Gruber Were Republican MSM Would Be Exploding

Funny watching that clip - of course Barnicle spins away from her point and Dean minimizes it, that's what obedient partisan ideologues do.

She's absolutely right, had a Republican said something like that the media would have gone ape.

Good for her, she was honest.

.