Obligation to "society"

[Truthmatters]

and there they are hating on democracy.


why the hell not move out of the country you hate everying about democracy

 

[rightwinger]

So its better to use the government to force people to pay for things that probably do not benefit them one bit? Why not ASK people to donate to a cause you believe in instead of using the IRS's gun at thier head to force contributions?

Forced generosity is not generosity at all.

You belong to a society and have been given the vote. As a member of society, you get to elect representatives who decide on the needs of society and how they should be paid for. You may agree with those decisions or you may disagree. But you still benefit as a member of society

"Society" has no claim upon me whatsoever, no matter how you try to rationalize your despotic attitudes.

LOL....keep telling yourself that

You're not the boss of me

 

[Truthmatters]

Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Under Article VIII of the Articles of Confederation, the United States federal government did not have the power to tax. All such power lay with the states. The United States Constitution, adopted in 1787, authorized the federal government to lay and collect taxes, but required that some types of tax revenues be given to the states in proportion to population. Tariffs were the principal federal tax through the 1800s.

why are you on the right spitting in the founders faces?

 

[Oddball]

You belong to a society and have been given the vote. As a member of society, you get to elect representatives who decide on the needs of society and how they should be paid for. You may agree with those decisions or you may disagree. But you still benefit as a member of society

"Society" has no claim upon me whatsoever, no matter how you try to rationalize your despotic attitudes.

LOL....keep telling yourself that

You're not the boss of me

So, you got nothing...Figures.

 

[rightwinger]

"Society" has no claim upon me whatsoever, no matter how you try to rationalize your despotic attitudes.

LOL....keep telling yourself that

You're not the boss of me

So, you got nothing...Figures.

Actually, your childish attempts to seperate yourself from society is nothing

 

[Truthmatters]

"Society" has no claim upon me whatsoever, no matter how you try to rationalize your despotic attitudes.

LOL....keep telling yourself that

You're not the boss of me

So, you got nothing...Figures.

and how will you inforce this right you claim?

 

[Oddball]

LOL....keep telling yourself that

You're not the boss of me

So, you got nothing...Figures.

Actually, your childish attempts to seperate yourself from society is nothing

It also figures that you'd miss that SP started the thread to discuss the overall philosophical point, rather than indulge boorish little punks like you in your "neener-neener" crap, insofar as you've been able to turn American society, such as it is, into a kleptocracy.

Speaking of childish....

 

[martybegan]

You belong to a society and have been given the vote. As a member of society, you get to elect representatives who decide on the needs of society and how they should be paid for. You may agree with those decisions or you may disagree. But you still benefit as a member of society

And what happens when 51% of society finds out they can vote for the other 49% to pay for thier stuff?

Thats why we have a consitution, to at least attempt that.

Why are progressives so fond of mob rule?

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

The worst offenders are those who take from the system and give nothing in return.

I have family members who make a great living off the 1%. Those people spend money on some expensive stuff.

 

[martybegan]

Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Under Article VIII of the Articles of Confederation, the United States federal government did not have the power to tax. All such power lay with the states. The United States Constitution, adopted in 1787, authorized the federal government to lay and collect taxes, but required that some types of tax revenues be given to the states in proportion to population. Tariffs were the principal federal tax through the 1800s.

why are you on the right spitting in the founders faces?

You do know that Income Taxes, the Tax most people complain about, required a consitutional amendment right? And it was originally found to be unconsitutional prior to the amendment?

 

[rightwinger]

And what happens when 51% of society finds out they can vote for the other 49% to pay for thier stuff?

Thats why we have a consitution, to at least attempt that.

Why are progressives so fond of mob rule?

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

The worst offenders are those who take from the system and give nothing in return.

I have family members who make a great living off the 1%. Those people spend money on some expensive stuff.

Not really

A welfare queen makes a pittance compared to the tax dodges and subsidies afforded to the super wealthy

 

[Oddball]

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

The worst offenders are those who take from the system and give nothing in return.

I have family members who make a great living off the 1%. Those people spend money on some expensive stuff.

Not really

A welfare queen makes a pittance compared to the tax dodges and subsidies afforded to the super wealthy

The topic of the thread isn't moral equivalence.

Try to keep up.

 

[Spoonman]

You belong to a society and have been given the vote. As a member of society, you get to elect representatives who decide on the needs of society and how they should be paid for. You may agree with those decisions or you may disagree. But you still benefit as a member of society

And what happens when 51% of society finds out they can vote for the other 49% to pay for thier stuff?

Thats why we have a consitution, to at least attempt that.

Why are progressives so fond of mob rule?

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

or the 49% who block vote for more free stuff

 

[rightwinger]

And what happens when 51% of society finds out they can vote for the other 49% to pay for thier stuff?

Thats why we have a consitution, to at least attempt that.

Why are progressives so fond of mob rule?

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

or the 49% who block vote for more free stuff

Everyone gets free stuff

 

[martybegan]

It is hard to differentiate who the 51% is and who the 49% is when everyone in society receives free stuff.

The worst offenders are those in the upper 1% who can afford to buy lobbyists and Congressmen who ensure that legislation will continue to keep the money flowing in

The worst offenders are those who take from the system and give nothing in return.

I have family members who make a great living off the 1%. Those people spend money on some expensive stuff.

Not really

A welfare queen makes a pittance compared to the tax dodges and subsidies afforded to the super wealthy

But its a money dead end. You get no productivity at it, and you create a government buracracy thats only job is to watch people do nothing.

When a rich guy spends 20 million to redo his apartment, tons of people make money, and they work to do it.

 

[rightwinger]

Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Under Article VIII of the Articles of Confederation, the United States federal government did not have the power to tax. All such power lay with the states. The United States Constitution, adopted in 1787, authorized the federal government to lay and collect taxes, but required that some types of tax revenues be given to the states in proportion to population. Tariffs were the principal federal tax through the 1800s.

why are you on the right spitting in the founders faces?

You do know that Income Taxes, the Tax most people complain about, required a consitutional amendment right? And it was originally found to be unconsitutional prior to the amendment?

Income Taxes were not possible at the founding of our country. We lacked a strong middle class and a wage structure.

They did however, provide a steady, predictable stream of revenue for a nation building itself into a super power

 

[emilynghiem]

I have been hearing a lot from the sheep lately that we have some sort of obligation to society as a whole.

Well do we really?

I am forced to pay taxes far over the actual value of government services I receive isn't that enough?

What else am I obligated to do for "society"?

Am I responsible for the safety of other peoples' children?
Am I responsible for the bills and livelihood of other people?

Just what does this obligation entail?

Shouldn't it be enough that I live my life without impeding anyone else from doing the same?

1. if you have certain political religious or social beliefs, your responsibility is to live by your own principles and fund them yourself and not impose on others to make others responsible if you believe differently. you are right, if we all did this we wouldn't have the problems we see now costing everyone out the kazoo!
2. if you don't like others imposing responsibility for their problems or beliefs on you or others who dissent or have a more effective solution, it is your equal responsibility to try to communicate and resolve such conflicts to the best of your ability to avoid imposition. the "golden rule of reciprocity" is a natural law that affects all people and all relations; it is found in every religion and also applies to enforcing civil laws where this is more effective when people agree to uphold them equally and not abuse laws or power to deprive others.
3. if you find your ways are imposing on others it is your responsibility to accept your share of the costs or efforts to resolve that problem. most conflicts are mutual, and require equal give and take on both sides to succeed in protecting individual interests equally for sake of justice and peace.
4. if all people did this more, then we would not have such conflicts with personal and public responsibility as we have now with people and institutions including church state business nonprofit etc. everyone should share equal responsibility for the part we can do something about and there would not be mass backlog imposing on people in conflict.
5. my suggestion is to promote training and assistance in conflict resolution, restorative justice and consensus building where taxpayers are rewarded for solving problems of government, not punished for crimes corruption or abuses of others. when people have equal access to education and mentorship we can become more self-governing and equal in rights and responsibility with more direct localized democracy for sustainable economic and community development. thanks!

ps as for govt costing taxpayers more than the services or programs should cost due to abuses or problems, where govt officials or agencies FAIL to fix the problems or conflicts causing waste, unfortunately the buck is passed to the people who can solve the problem. if our tax money or authority is abused we are partially responsible for granting that. it is not enough to say someone else did the abuse; if we pay for a car or give the keys to reckless drivers, the minute we become aware they are causing wrecks and costing damage, we share responsibility for providing the cars or the keys to that irresponsible or reckless driver. political parties formed around each case of reckless waste by the govt or corporate abuse would be the perfect structure to organize advocates and resources around reforms and solutions; we just need to delegate issues and authority by teams and work together instead of fighting to take over the wheel of the ship while it sinks deeper!

 

[emilynghiem]

The worst offenders are those who take from the system and give nothing in return.

I have family members who make a great living off the 1%. Those people spend money on some expensive stuff.

Not really

A welfare queen makes a pittance compared to the tax dodges and subsidies afforded to the super wealthy

But its a money dead end. You get no productivity at it, and you create a government buracracy thats only job is to watch people do nothing.

When a rich guy spends 20 million to redo his apartment, tons of people make money, and they work to do it.

Well stated Marty! Interestingly, I put together a proposal to set up a church-run school to TEACH and train low-income Vets and church volunteers to develop finance and manage commercial and residential property on the campus grounds, for generating sustainable jobs and revenue to end poverty while funding education and historic preservation. but ppl on the investor side don't get the nonprofit and historic preservation part, and ppl coming from that side don't get corporate development. if you can see how to get both sides on the same page, this is a national historic site we could be saving for vet housing that would be privately developed not relying on welfare.
see Freedmen's Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing I only have 14 signatures on my white house petition linked at the top because very few ppl can see how to combine these things in one solution! any ideas, can you help or suggest how to push this concept?

 

[Cowman]

If you don't care for society, why are you in a society?

There are costs to living in a country like ours, and I like to think one of the things that makes this country great is that we have great services available to help members of our society through difficult times.

I think what you'd rather prefer is some random African country.

You make it seem like we're living in a North Korea esque environment here, and it's totally not the case.

 

[Katzndogz]

A

There is no obligation that the individual has to society beyond the social contract of if you leave me alone, I leave you alone.

There are threats, coercion and intimidation but no obligation.

What you just described is NOT a society, but its DISINTEGRATION.

Such "society" has no future.

Absolutely true. Which is why this nation is disintegrating. It has no future.

 

[Cowman]

A

There is no obligation that the individual has to society beyond the social contract of if you leave me alone, I leave you alone.

There are threats, coercion and intimidation but no obligation.

What you just described is NOT a society, but its DISINTEGRATION.

Such "society" has no future.

Absolutely true. Which is why this nation is disintegrating. It has no future.

Then get out. Live out your wretched life elsewhere. This country is going through rough patches, but will be fine.