Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[Dragon]

Honesty. It's important.

Coming from you, that has to take the forum prize for irony.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Great. Perhaps you could answer the question I keep asking of the protest supporters. What would be the economic impact of the 11 demands. If that's too hard.... just answer this one... what would be the economic impact of a $20 ph min wage?

Why do you always default to stupid? Perhaps you might answer that question.

Anyone who has observed and considered what has happened to our economy since January 2001 gets it - the rich have gotten much much richer and the rest of our citizens have been left behind. As an example on today's SF Chronical's front page is a graph showing the cost of living between 2008 and 2011 has risen an average in the Bay Area for a family of four 18.4%, while wages have remained stagnant.

No CG, wealth doesn't trickle down, it purchases gold or is stored in off-shore banks.

 

[WillowTree]

Great. Perhaps you could answer the question I keep asking of the protest supporters. What would be the economic impact of the 11 demands. If that's too hard.... just answer this one... what would be the economic impact of a $20 ph min wage?

Why do you always default to stupid? Perhaps you might answer that question.

Anyone who has observed and considered what has happened to our economy since January 2001 gets it - the rich have gotten much much richer and the rest of our citizens have been left behind. As an example on today's SF Chronical's front page is a graph showing the cost of living between 2008 and 2011 has risen an average in the Bay Area for a family of four 18.4%, while wages have remained stagnant.

No CG, wealth doesn't trickle down, it purchases gold or is stored in off-shore banks.

what do you intend to replace capitalism with? do you know? and how's it gonna work out when the takers outnumber the givers.. I'm interested in knowing.

 

[Katzndogz]

Skull Pilot, let me give you a hypothetical.

Let's say you're a marathon runner. One year, you run your race along with 99 other people, and 85 of them make it to the finish. The other 15 poop out along the way.

The next year, 100 people also run the race, but this time it's held in Colorado on a road that goes up a mountainside, so that it's uphill the whole 26-plus miles. Also, all of the runners have to wear boots that have lead weights sewn into them. This time, only ten people make it to the end, and you're not one of them.

Do you think it would be appropriate for someone to say to you, "stop blaming everyone else for your pathetic life"?

Why or why not?

This presupposes that someone is actively preventing these protesters from achieving anything through their own efforts. Right now as the parasitic left is protesting in the streets because no one is giving them enough, tens of thousands of students are in class quietly plugging through course work. They spend long hours in the library studying. They will graduate, get good jobs and achieve great things and amass great wealth. It is appropriate that they say to the parasitic left "stop blaming everyone else for your pathetic life." No one is stopping these parasites from achieving anything they want.

Most of them will graduate college and not find a job. They will have majored in Basket Weaving with course study in "White privilege and its effect on black slavery." They have chosen these subjects because it was much easier than Architecture or Business Administration. Of course they have lead weights in their boots, who do you think put them there? The parasites did themselves. When the recruiters come to college in the senior year who do you think they're looking for? Comparative religion majors? The History of Lesbianism specialists?

These kids at the crossroads making these ASININE and stupid decisions because it cuts into playtime DESERVE everything they get.

 

[EriktheRed]

Does anybody know if any Teahadists have shown up to show support for the guys looking down on the protest sipping champagne?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY&feature=player_embedded]Wall Street Mocks Protesters By Drinking Champagne 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dragon]

This presupposes that someone is actively preventing these protesters from achieving anything through their own efforts.

And in fact that's the case.

Right now . . . tens of thousands of students are in class quietly plugging through course work. They spend long hours in the library studying. They will graduate, get good jobs and achieve great things and amass great wealth.

No, most of them won't, because a college degree is no longer a ticket to success, and because good jobs are becoming more and more scarce. Most of them will be unable to find decent jobs at all, and will be burdened with student loan debt that they have no prospect of being able to repay. And that is true of just about all of the degrees one can find at a four-year college, not just the caricatures you trotted out.

Over the past thirty years, the richest 1% of the nation have gained more and more of the income of the nation, while real wages have stagnated or declined and the middle class has shrunk. That is not the fault of individuals; one individual may indeed be at fault for his own misfortune, but when misfortune falls on almost everyone there is an outside cause. The uphill marathon with leg weights is a very good analogy. And it's getting worse and worse.

Until you understand this, you will never understand what this protest movement is about, and will seek some specious explanation. The real explanation is all around you in the suffering of the 99%, if you will just open your eyes and see it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, let me give you a hypothetical.

Let's say you're a marathon runner. One year, you run your race along with 99 other people, and 85 of them make it to the finish. The other 15 poop out along the way.

The next year, 100 people also run the race, but this time it's held in Colorado on a road that goes up a mountainside, so that it's uphill the whole 26-plus miles. Also, all of the runners have to wear boots that have lead weights sewn into them. This time, only ten people make it to the end, and you're not one of them.

Do you think it would be appropriate for someone to say to you, "stop blaming everyone else for your pathetic life"?

Why or why not?

If they knew the race was going to be in Colorado then they should have trained on hills.

In fact the people who succeed always assume there are going to be hills and will train for them anyway. Then guess what happens; the ones who are prepared for the harder race and take nothing for granted and don't feel entitled to an easy race win.

 

[Dragon]

If they knew the race was going to be in Colorado then they should have trained on hills.

Let's stipulate that they did not know, just as few people recognized what was being done to the economy over the past thirty years.

In fact the people who succeed always assume there are going to be hills and will train for them anyway. Then guess what happens; the ones who are prepared for the harder race and take nothing for granted and don't feel entitled to an easy race win.

It will always be the case that those who are most capable and best prepared and have the best work habits will do the best, all else being equal. That doesn't answer the question, though. In the first race, 85% of the runners finished. In the second, only 10% did. Is that because the runners in the second race were more out of shape, or is it because the conditions of the race changed?

 

[WillowTree]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SKw2j3XOY0]Occupy Wall Street (FULL) Interview with Chris Hedges Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Trajan]

has something changed recently?

........"war is a racket", Smedley Butler 1935. *shrugs*

A good speech. We are a capitalist system, so to some extent it's inevitable. However, the rise of the mega corporation has changed recently. It's akin to the tycoons the monopolies Teddy Roosevelt took down.

Who knows what would have happened had he no done that.

teddy not withstanding nothing has changed except they have gone multi-national. Insull, Mellon, Whitney, Morgan.....were there at the beginning and were there after both Roosevelt's and will be there forever.

 

[Trajan]

Yes. Insult me. I am the real problem here. And keep chiping your $20 to your candidate of choice. McCain-Fiengold was just over ruled on. We haven't even begun to see the end of the wormhole.

Why would the right wing so vigourously defend the right of corporations to "be people" and buy and sell politicans and how did ordinary people get duped into thinking it was a good idea?

At any rate, I thought the problem here was people were bitching without offering any ideas? I am not opposed ot your idea. It's a good start.

you appear to have a handle on what the problem is from their perspective, or 'problems' at large...(?)

if you were their spokesman, what would you say if asked to explain the platform?

I don't know. I was on the job until midnight last night and, needless to say, I am not on Wall Street today. Nor do I really pay attention to the particular groups that comprise these events.

However, I think a nice and rational start is to address the money in politics. Like I said, why did the right wing talking heads expend an absurd amount of time railing against McCain -Fiengold? Do you think they are really concerned with the constitutionality of the issue? Laughable.

I already spoke to that, as to what Fitz posted.

 

[Oldstyle]

Who is farther to the left then Bernie Sanders, Dragon? I honestly can't think of one politician that I would put further to the left than the Senator from Vermont. I'm curious to hear from you who would fit that bill.

The real far left is not in Congress. I mentioned several members of it above.

Anyone electable to Congress does not fit the description.

Is that because the "real far left" are such moonbats they couldn't get elected?

 

[Katzndogz]

This presupposes that someone is actively preventing these protesters from achieving anything through their own efforts.

And in fact that's the case.

Right now . . . tens of thousands of students are in class quietly plugging through course work. They spend long hours in the library studying. They will graduate, get good jobs and achieve great things and amass great wealth.

No, most of them won't, because a college degree is no longer a ticket to success, and because good jobs are becoming more and more scarce. Most of them will be unable to find decent jobs at all, and will be burdened with student loan debt that they have no prospect of being able to repay. And that is true of just about all of the degrees one can find at a four-year college, not just the caricatures you trotted out.

Over the past thirty years, the richest 1% of the nation have gained more and more of the income of the nation, while real wages have stagnated or declined and the middle class has shrunk. That is not the fault of individuals; one individual may indeed be at fault for his own misfortune, but when misfortune falls on almost everyone there is an outside cause. The uphill marathon with leg weights is a very good analogy. And it's getting worse and worse.

Until you understand this, you will never understand what this protest movement is about, and will seek some specious explanation. The real explanation is all around you in the suffering of the 99%, if you will just open your eyes and see it.

That's because you are just foolish. The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country. Your answer is to further support the parasitic class and increase the numbers of parasites. The real 99% are the people who go about their business. They own the dry cleaners, the Subway franchise and work there. They are on assembly lines just hoping that their company won't be taxed until it moves overseas. These protesters aren't 99%, if they are, if in fact 99% of the nation are parasites, we might as well invite the Chinese in to clean our house right now because we can't satisfy the demands of a population that is composed of 99% parasites and leeches. Let someone else deal with it. Let the Chinese come in with warehouse factories, they have experience in dealing wiht parasites such as we have.

Oh I see it all right. All around me. I see in the specious complaints of those who don't want to do anything but get laid and get high, yet smugly complain they don't have enough. I know those students who skate through college. When the recruiters come, and yes they still come to every senior class every year. They want the Asian kids that they KNOW have been busting their asses. The architects, the science majors, they get the signing bonuses and new cars for a year's contract. The parasites sit in the quad drinking beer.

 

[Dragon]

Is that because the "real far left" are such moonbats they couldn't get elected?

Not sure "moonbat" is the right term, but it's because they're too extreme, certainly. What else would "far" mean?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Let's stipulate that they did not know, just as few people recognized what was being done to the economy over the past thirty years.

Just WHAT was done to the economy over the past thirty years?

It will always be the case that those who are most capable and best prepared and have the best work habits will do the best, all else being equal. That doesn't answer the question, though. In the first race, 85% of the runners finished. In the second, only 10% did. Is that because the runners in the second race were more out of shape, or is it because the conditions of the race changed?

You dodged my earlier example, should equal work get equal pay, or does actually producing something have a bearing?

 

[Dragon]

The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country.

Considering that corporate profits are at record highs, and U.S. taxes are low compared to most other advanced democracies, that statement has no foundation in fact.

 

[Dragon]

Just WHAT was done to the economy over the past thirty years?

The tax system was flattened, so that more of the tax burden falls on the middle class and less on the rich; government policy became less labor-friendly so that obstacles to union formation increased and the power of organized labor declined; the financial industry was deregulated, encouraging investments to go into complicated financial shell games instead of into real production of wealth.

All of this encouraged the accumulation of private wealth while working to suppress real wages, thus driving the increase of income gaps over those thirty years.

should equal work get equal pay, or does actually producing something have a bearing?

This question has no relevance to the discussion. The income gap that is of concern is not between one worker and another but between workers in general and the owner class.

 

[California Girl]

Just WHAT was done to the economy over the past thirty years?

The tax system was flattened, so that more of the tax burden falls on the middle class and less on the rich; government policy became less labor-friendly so that obstacles to union formation increased and the power of organized labor declined; the financial industry was deregulated, encouraging investments to go into complicated financial shell games instead of into real production of wealth.

All of this encouraged the accumulation of private wealth while working to suppress real wages, thus driving the increase of income gaps over those thirty years.

Your understanding of economics needs a little work.

 

[California Girl]

The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country.

Considering that corporate profits are at record highs, and U.S. taxes are low compared to most other advanced democracies, that statement has no foundation in fact.

While Tipsy is not exactly right.... it is a tad more complicated than s/he has stated....that assessment is closer to accurate than your moronic crap.

And.... we are not a democracy... we are a Republic.

And.... if you do not wish to live by the Constitution that created our Republic, move to a country that suits you. Do not seek to take this one.... it's already taken... and we have guns.

 

[Oldstyle]

Skull Pilot, let me give you a hypothetical.

Let's say you're a marathon runner. One year, you run your race along with 99 other people, and 85 of them make it to the finish. The other 15 poop out along the way.

The next year, 100 people also run the race, but this time it's held in Colorado on a road that goes up a mountainside, so that it's uphill the whole 26-plus miles. Also, all of the runners have to wear boots that have lead weights sewn into them. This time, only ten people make it to the end, and you're not one of them.

Do you think it would be appropriate for someone to say to you, "stop blaming everyone else for your pathetic life"?

Why or why not?

For the life of me, Dragon...I don't understand your analogy here. Are you saying that the Occupy Wall Street protesters have had to run uphill with lead weights sewn into their boots? Sorry, but judging from what I've seen and heard from the people at this event most of them haven't gotten into the "jobs race" at all. They've been hanging out playing video games waiting for someone to hand them something for free that comes out of the pocket of someone else.

I get annoyed by these activists attitude towards America. We as a country didn't become great because of income redistribution...we became great because we rewarded those who worked hard and made themselves successful. That wasn't accomplished through a $20 minimum wage or a guaranteed "living wage". It was accomplished by average Americans risking capital and investing sweat equity to build thriving businesses. Now people like you think it's acceptable to seize money from those successful people and hand it over to people who haven't risked ANYTHING whether capital or sweat equity, just because you see it as "fair".