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There is no evidence whatsoever that the men who made the Constitution believed it should be interpreted according to the Federalist Papers.Federalist Parers are a great tool in discerning. Here is a Site that is one of my favorites.
The Congress has Opened with a Prayer since the Founding.
If you're taking about the U. S. Congress, that's a myth, dude. The myth is based on a lie, or at least an untruth, told by a Supreme Court Justice in a bogus opinion he wrote.
Here's the entry from the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America for MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790:
As you can see, there is no mention of an opening prayer. There is no mention of opening prayer in the records of either the Senate or the House until the mid 1850's.
If you're talking about the Continental Congress, it prayed only once a year most of the time. It established daily prayer in 1777, but it was terminated after four weeks. After the War with Britain ended, there were a couple years with no prayer whatsoever.
-- Emphasis added.Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, 1789-1793
SATURDAY, APRIL 18, 1789.
The Senate assembled: present as yesterday.
A letter from the Speaker of the House to the President was read, enclosing a concurrence of the House, with the resolve of Senate of the 15th, upon the mode of conference between the Senate and House of Representatives; also, a concurrence upon the mode of choosing Chaplains.
On motion,Resolved, That the following be subjoined to the standing orders of the Senate:
XX. Before any petition or memorial, addressed to the Senate, shall be received and read at the table, whether the same shall be introduced by the President, or a member, a brief statement of the contents of the petition or memorial shall verbally be made by the introducer.
The Senate adjourned until 11 o'clock on Monday morning.
The Congress has Opened with a Prayer since the Founding.
If you're taking about the U. S. Congress, that's a myth, dude. The myth is based on a lie, or at least an untruth, told by a Supreme Court Justice in a bogus opinion he wrote.
Here's the entry from the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America for MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790:
As you can see, there is no mention of an opening prayer. There is no mention of opening prayer in the records of either the Senate or the House until the mid 1850's.
If you're talking about the Continental Congress, it prayed only once a year most of the time. It established daily prayer in 1777, but it was terminated after four weeks. After the War with Britain ended, there were a couple years with no prayer whatsoever.
[With a little highlighting by me]Having thus imparted to you my sentiments, as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign Parent of the human race, in humble supplication that, since he has been pleased to favor the American people with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparalleled unanimity, on a form of government for the security of their union, and the advancement of their happiness; so his divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures, on which the success of this government must depend.
The President, the Vice President, the Senate, and House of Representatives, &c. then proceeded to St. Paul's Chapel, where divine service was performed by the Chaplain of Congress, after which the President was reconducted to his house by the committee appointed for that purpose.
O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com
"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.
When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"
Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.
I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???
I wonder what Micky's Response will be to the Historical Fact Presented?...
peace...
O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com
"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.
When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"
Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.
I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???
She is sticking to the Constitution. Have you ever read the First Amendment? Or the Establishment clause? Neither of them specifically say state and church must be separated at all cost. They simply state the Congress shall not Establish Religion and that they shall not make any laws that restrict the free exercise of Religion.
Try Actually reading the constitution for a change.
WHO did the persecuting is totally besides the point.Remember some months ago when I was arguing that the MAIN reason that America came into existence was because of RELIGION. You know, the pilgrims leaving Britain due to religious prosecution and NOT to open up business aka COMMERCE??
Remember the RW response to that then?
OK...watch how they respond now in this thread.
These guys never cease to amaze me and crack me up.
LOL!!!!
Separation of church and state came about because of persecution of Christians...
...by other Christians.
WHO did the persecuting is totally besides the point.Remember some months ago when I was arguing that the MAIN reason that America came into existence was because of RELIGION. You know, the pilgrims leaving Britain due to religious prosecution and NOT to open up business aka COMMERCE??
Remember the RW response to that then?
OK...watch how they respond now in this thread.
These guys never cease to amaze me and crack me up.
LOL!!!!
Separation of church and state came about because of persecution of Christians...
...by other Christians.
The fact of the matter is they ran to this continent seeking refuge from Religious Persecution...not to open up a shoe cobbling business (as SOME would have you believe).
There is no evidence whatsoever that the men who made the Constitution believed it should be interpreted according to the Federalist Papers.Federalist Parers are a great tool in discerning. Here is a Site that is one of my favorites.
PS: The Federalist contains evidence that the authors of the papers took for granted that the Constitution would be interpreted by applying well established common law rules of construction.
, Madison clearly represents a position adverse to the current Statist position. Clearly it is understood why the powers that be want it suppressed. Is this off key or a diversion from the true stand on Arms in Colonial Times? Maybe we instead have corrupted a Trust?
The Congress has Opened with a Prayer since the Founding.
If you're taking about the U. S. Congress, that's a myth, dude. The myth is based on a lie, or at least an untruth, told by a Supreme Court Justice in a bogus opinion he wrote.
Here's the entry from the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America for MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790:
As you can see, there is no mention of an opening prayer. There is no mention of opening prayer in the records of either the Senate or the House until the mid 1850's.
If you're talking about the Continental Congress, it prayed only once a year most of the time. It established daily prayer in 1777, but it was terminated after four weeks. After the War with Britain ended, there were a couple years with no prayer whatsoever.
You might want to read a bit further back in time:
<a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --SATURDAY, APRIL 18, 1789.
And to be specific, as the Senate was first getting its shit together, devising their Rules (having recently determined that General Washington had been unanimously elected President of the United States, etc.), the Journal noted the following:
-- Emphasis added.Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, 1789-1793
SATURDAY, APRIL 18, 1789.
The Senate assembled: present as yesterday.
A letter from the Speaker of the House to the President was read, enclosing a concurrence of the House, with the resolve of Senate of the 15th, upon the mode of conference between the Senate and House of Representatives; also, a concurrence upon the mode of choosing Chaplains.
On motion,Resolved, That the following be subjoined to the standing orders of the Senate:
XX. Before any petition or memorial, addressed to the Senate, shall be received and read at the table, whether the same shall be introduced by the President, or a member, a brief statement of the contents of the petition or memorial shall verbally be made by the introducer.
The Senate adjourned until 11 o'clock on Monday morning.
Wow. Way back in mid April of 1789 they determined their MODE of choosing CHAPLAINS.
The Congress has Opened with a Prayer since the Founding.
If you're taking about the U. S. Congress, that's a myth, dude. The myth is based on a lie, or at least an untruth, told by a Supreme Court Justice in a bogus opinion he wrote.
Here's the entry from the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America for MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790:
As you can see, there is no mention of an opening prayer. There is no mention of opening prayer in the records of either the Senate or the House until the mid 1850's.
If you're talking about the Continental Congress, it prayed only once a year most of the time. It established daily prayer in 1777, but it was terminated after four weeks. After the War with Britain ended, there were a couple years with no prayer whatsoever.
Could you Possibly be any More Ignorant of Historical Fact?...
Below is a speech recorded by James Madison and purported to have been made by Benjamin Franklin at the Constitutional Convention on June 28, 1787:
"The small progress we have made after four or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other---our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.
In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance?
I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proof I see of this truth that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service."
The Congressional Prayer Caucus - Prayer in Congress
peace...
<a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --WEDNESDAY, APRIL 22, 1789.
Also worth a look or three.
And of note there is also: <a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --SATURDAY, APRIL 25, 1789. (Note: The Senate elected its first Chaplain BEFORE President Washington was sworn in!)
<a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --WEDNESDAY, APRIL 22, 1789.
Also worth a look or three.
And of note there is also: <a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --SATURDAY, APRIL 25, 1789. (Note: The Senate elected its first Chaplain BEFORE President Washington was sworn in!)
The President, the Vice President, the Senate, and House of Representatives, &c. then proceeded to St. Paul's Chapel, where divine service was performed by the Chaplain of Congress.
Have you ever read the First Amendment? Or the Establishment clause? Neither of them specifically say state and church must be separated at all cost. They simply state the Congress shall not Establish Religion and that they shall not make any laws that restrict the free exercise of Religion.
WHO did the persecuting is totally besides the point.Remember some months ago when I was arguing that the MAIN reason that America came into existence was because of RELIGION. You know, the pilgrims leaving Britain due to religious prosecution and NOT to open up business aka COMMERCE??
Remember the RW response to that then?
OK...watch how they respond now in this thread.
These guys never cease to amaze me and crack me up.
LOL!!!!
Separation of church and state came about because of persecution of Christians...
...by other Christians.
The fact of the matter is they ran to this continent seeking refuge from Religious Persecution...not to open up a shoe cobbling business (as SOME would have you believe).
