O'Donnell questions separation of church, state

[DiveCon]

for anyone that missed the full exchange and thinks O'Donnell was taken out of context, watch the video at this link

Christine O'Donnell's church and state gaffe makes voters laugh | World news | The Guardian

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

 

[manifold]

for anyone that missed the full exchange and thinks O'Donnell was taken out of context, watch the video at this link

Christine O'Donnell's church and state gaffe makes voters laugh | World news | The Guardian

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Queef probably just assumed that because you're a conservative you must be defending O'Donnell.

 

[DiveCon]

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Queef probably just assumed that because you're a conservative you must be defending O'Donnell.

is that the "the rent is 2 damn high" party guy in your avatar?

 

[Queen]

for anyone that missed the full exchange and thinks O'Donnell was taken out of context, watch the video at this link

Christine O'Donnell's church and state gaffe makes voters laugh | World news | The Guardian

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Why is that snark? I was just telling you my opinion on the topic. Where does my quote say anything about disagreeing with you? Why are you so nasty all the time?

 

[Queen]

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Queef probably just assumed that because you're a conservative you must be defending O'Donnell.

You're clueless too apparantly. What part of my post says I think he's defending O'Donnell?

You are both knee jerk nasties.

 

[DiveCon]

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Why is that snark? I was just telling you my opinion on the topic. Where does my quote say anything about disagreeing with you? Why are you so nasty all the time?

as if i was saying she WAS

 

[Ravi]

I watched the whole thing. She wasn't taken out of context. She didn't know what the 1st amendment said. She's clueless.

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Why is that snark? I was just telling you my opinion on the topic. Where does my quote say anything about disagreeing with you? Why are you so nasty all the time?

He's got the bends, cut him some slack.

 

[hipeter924]

Just to let those sad liberals know, Obama was laughing at you not with you when he got the Presidency. You bought the scam, at least O'Donnell admitted she dabbled in witchcraft, Obama denies all his mistakes, just like he now denies the Armenian Genocide, Turkish human rights abuses and refuses to admit his economic policies have failed or at the very least severely damaged America.

PS: Obama's pastor was a raving racist (Jew and White hating), anti-American nutcase, so I am sure Obama doesn't support separation of church and state either. Plus he is still religious and a Muslim apologist and not an Atheist, so Obama is still a total nut case in my book, he shares with Stalin a radical religious background (Stalin's parents were extreme orthodox Christians that believed in the harsh and brutal church run by the czar). No wonder he loves destroying people's lives, if he had any human decency he would have publicly apologized, and resigned the Presidency.

 

[manifold]

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Queef probably just assumed that because you're a conservative you must be defending O'Donnell.

You're clueless too apparantly. What part of my post says I think he's defending O'Donnell?

You are both knee jerk nasties.

backpedal fail

The implication was obvious.

A simple acknowledgement that you were mistaken is in order. Righteous indignation just makes you look like an even bigger ass.

 

[DiveCon]

no shit moron
why dont you actually read my posts in this thread before you get snarky

Why is that snark? I was just telling you my opinion on the topic. Where does my quote say anything about disagreeing with you? Why are you so nasty all the time?

He's got the bends, cut him some slack.

as if you actually know what "the bends" are and what causes it
because if you did, you wouldnt even have made that claim
you just show how fucking moronic you are once again

 

[Ravi]

Why is that snark? I was just telling you my opinion on the topic. Where does my quote say anything about disagreeing with you? Why are you so nasty all the time?

He's got the bends, cut him some slack.

as if you actually know what "the bends" are and what causes it
because if you did, you wouldnt even have made that claim
you just show how fucking moronic you are once again

You are so humor challenged it isn't funny.

 

[DiveCon]

He's got the bends, cut him some slack.

as if you actually know what "the bends" are and what causes it
because if you did, you wouldnt even have made that claim
you just show how fucking moronic you are once again

You are so humor challenged it isn't funny.

yeah, someone having the bends is so funny

get a fucking education moron

 

[Liability]

Just to let those sad liberals know, Obama was laughing at you not with you when he got the Presidency. You bought the scam, at least O'Donnell admitted she dabbled in witchcraft, Obama denies all his mistakes, just like he now denies the Armenian Genocide, Turkish human rights abuses and refuses to admit his economic policies have failed or at the very least severely damaged America.

PS: Obama's pastor was a raving racist (Jew and White hating), anti-American nutcase, so I am sure Obama doesn't support separation of church and state either. Plus he is still religious and a Muslim apologist and not an Atheist, so Obama is still a total nut case in my book, he shares with Stalin a radical religious background (Stalin's parents were extreme orthodox Christians that believed in the harsh and brutal church run by the czar). No wonder he loves destroying people's lives, if he had any human decency he would have publicly apologized, and resigned the Presidency.

This response is limited JUST to the image.

Fucking EXCELLENT. At first it made me laugh literally out loud.

Then the implication sunk in. Sneaky "art" it was it was.

It's a masterpiece.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

WHO did the persecuting is totally besides the point.

The fact of the matter is they ran to this continent seeking refuge from Religious Persecution...not to open up a shoe cobbling business (as SOME would have you believe).

The Pilgrims were never persecuted for their religion and their leader said they immigrated to America for economic reasons.

Wow. That lie goes against all history taught about the Pilgrims.

Although not actively persecuted, the Pilgrims were subjected to ecclesiastical investigation and to the mockery, criticism, and disfavor of their neighbors.

William Bradford, leader of the Pilgrims, wrote that finding "a better, and easier place of living" was the reason the group immigrated to America.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Could you Possibly be any More Ignorant of Historical Fact?...

Below is a speech recorded by James Madison and purported to have been made by Benjamin Franklin at the Constitutional Convention on June 28, 1787:

"The small progress we have made after four or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other---our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance?

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proof I see of this truth that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service."

The Congressional Prayer Caucus - Prayer in Congress



peace...

The Convention rejected the motion for a daily prayer.

Link...

Trust me, dude. The motion was never even voted on.

And are you going to Deny that a Prayer is said at the beginning of each New Congress and the Supreme Court?

Dude, the U. S. Congress didn't institute prayer until the mid 1850's.

 

[DiveCon]

The Convention rejected the motion for a daily prayer.

Link...

Trust me, dude. The motion was never even voted on.

And are you going to Deny that a Prayer is said at the beginning of each New Congress and the Supreme Court?

Dude, the U. S. Congress didn't institute prayer until the mid 1850's.

yet you have no links

 

[Liability]

Exactly.

The point is at the point where you teach Christian creation theory...or have a Muslim prayer in school...you are ESTABLISHING...that that religion represents, or is more valid, or should be a part of...the government.

Unless you can incorporate all religions equally and without discrimination...which you CANT (since atheism is valid as well, among other reasons)....you must separate church and state.

No. When you teach something, you are not necessarily putting the State imprimatur on it. When I was in junior high, they taught us how some native American Indians believed that the world was placed on the back of a tortoise or turtle. Somehow, I got by without concluding that this was the official State religious view of creation.

 

[Liability]

If you're taking about the U. S. Congress, that's a myth, dude. The myth is based on a lie, or at least an untruth, told by a Supreme Court Justice in a bogus opinion he wrote.

Here's the entry from the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America for MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790:

<a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1790.
​

As you can see, there is no mention of an opening prayer. There is no mention of opening prayer in the records of either the Senate or the House until the mid 1850's.

If you're talking about the Continental Congress, it prayed only once a year most of the time. It established daily prayer in 1777, but it was terminated after four weeks. After the War with Britain ended, there were a couple years with no prayer whatsoever.

You might want to read a bit further back in time:

<a href="/ammem/amlaw/lwsj.html">Senate Journal</a> --SATURDAY, APRIL 18, 1789.

And to be specific, as the Senate was first getting its shit together, devising their Rules (having recently determined that General Washington had been unanimously elected President of the United States, etc.), the Journal noted the following:

Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, 1789-1793
SATURDAY, APRIL 18, 1789.

The Senate assembled: present as yesterday.

A letter from the Speaker of the House to the President was read, enclosing a concurrence of the House, with the resolve of Senate of the 15th, upon the mode of conference between the Senate and House of Representatives; also, a concurrence upon the mode of choosing Chaplains.

On motion,Resolved, That the following be subjoined to the standing orders of the Senate:

XX. Before any petition or memorial, addressed to the Senate, shall be received and read at the table, whether the same shall be introduced by the President, or a member, a brief statement of the contents of the petition or memorial shall verbally be made by the introducer.

The Senate adjourned until 11 o'clock on Monday morning.

-- Emphasis added.

Wow. Way back in mid April of 1789 they determined their MODE of choosing CHAPLAINS.

Chaplains were indeed elected the First U. S. Congress. But, there is no evidence whatsoever that they opened each daily session of the House or Senate with a prayer. In fact, the Chaplains were never officially assigned any duties whatsoever by the First U. S. Congress.

There is evidence that during the First U. S. Congress, a Chaplain conducted one morning prayer service in the Senate Chamber before it was officially convened for the day.

Who cares? If the "offense" you seemingly dread is that any mention of the Divine Creator by the Secular government somehow "establishes" an official State religion (which, by the way, just to be clear, it obviously does not), then whether or not the Chaplains open the festivities each day in the Senate (or the House) with a prayer is irrelevant. The mere fact that the Senate CREATED -- by official act -- the Senate Chaplain position would be the thing that presumably would constitute the "establishment" of a State religion.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providences of almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly implore his protection and his favor." -George Washington

He was wrong about slavery, too.

In 1789, pubic opinion was moving in favor of separation of church and state and away from civil authority over religion. However, there was still a large minority, and maybe even a majority, that favored a little advisory civil authority over religion.

As the nation grew, public opinion moved more and more toward separation. By the time James Monroe became President, it would have been political suicide, as it was for John Adams, for a President to issue the type of religion recommendations President Washington and Adams issued.

Beginning with President Monroe and ending with President Lincoln, eleven straight Presidents refused to issue any sort of religious recommendation to the people. That's how strong separation of church and state became during the early years of the Republic.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Link...

Trust me, dude. The motion was never even voted on.

And are you going to Deny that a Prayer is said at the beginning of each New Congress and the Supreme Court?

Dude, the U. S. Congress didn't institute prayer until the mid 1850's.

yet you have no links

Go to "A Century of Lawmaking" and read the Journals and Debates of Congress for yourself, like I did. Here's the link: A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774-1873