Officer Who Pepper-Sprayed a Black Army Medic Is Fired

[Ray From Cleveland]

And that will be a good thing, because obviously police are currently trained illegally to infringe upon rights.
For example, it is a criminal felony for police to point a gun at anyone who is not armed.

It is not. Police (and armed citizens) are allowed to even shoot people who are not armed.

 

[Rigby5]

And that will be a good thing, because obviously police are currently trained illegally to infringe upon rights.
For example, it is a criminal felony for police to point a gun at anyone who is not armed.

It is not. Police (and armed citizens) are allowed to even shoot people who are not armed.

No you are not.
The only time anyone can endanger another is if it is necessary for defense.
There can be no exception to this basis concept of rights.
Police, or any armed citizen, can not legally have any additional rights than defense if there is a threat to their life.
And police can not resort to lethal force when faced with less than lethal resistance, because police have less than lethal alternatives.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No you are not.
The only time anyone can endanger another is if it is necessary for defense.
There can be no exception to this basis concept of rights.
Police, or any armed citizen, can not legally have any additional rights than defense if there is a threat to their life.
And police can not resort to lethal force when faced with less than lethal resistance, because police have less than lethal alternatives.

The police follow the same laws we armed citizens do. Our laws mirrors most around the country. The law reads that it's legal to use deadly force if you believe that you (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. There are no provisions that your attacker must also be armed. I'm 60 years old. If three muscle bound guys in their 20's are chasing me, I have the right to shoot them. Why? Because at my age and medical condition, I have every right to believe I'm in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, although the presence of a gun pointed at them will likely stop the attack before I have to shoot.

Also in my state we have the Castle Doctrine. The castle doctrine allows a home owner to use deadly force against somebody who broke into your home armed or not. They extended the castle doctrine our vehicles who's owners have CCW's. In other words, breaking into my car is no different than breaking into my home. I'm allowed to use deadly force against an intruder even if he doesn't have so much as a club.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Explain this Ray.

They should have shot the bastard.

View attachment 480528

One more time since you ignored it the first time I posted it:

A 2016 Harvard researcher's study found that Black people are no more likely to be killed by police officers than are white people. A 2019 study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found “no evidence of anti-Black ... disparities across" fatal shootings by police. Both white and Black people are far more likely to be murdered by an acquaintance of their own race than they are to be shot dead by the police.

There are millions of interactions between Black people and police annually, including about 2 million arrests.

In 2019, 1,004 people, mostly white, were shot dead by the police, according to the Washington Post. Assuming that an average of one police officer is involved per killing, then 1,004 police officers, or fourteen-hundredths of 1% of America’s 700,000 police officers, were involved in fatal police shootings.

A Washington Post database shows that 14 Black and 25 white “unarmed” Americans were shot dead by police in 2019. An analysis that was broadcast on "Tucker Carlson Tonight" of 10 of the “unarmed” Black decedents showed that for five of these persons, calling them unarmed is misleading: two had cars, one had a stun gun, and two others had guns, authorities said. In those two cases where the decedents had guns, which were the only cases where the weapons were not used to assault police, the officers faced homicide charges.

What do the statistics, not the stereotypes, about killings by the police tell us?

Preconceptions that describe a group are never true for the group as a whole, and often are true for only a tiny percentage of that group.

www.desmoinesregister.com

So you keep getting your education from memes, and I'll get mine from actual studies.

By all means Ray tell me which part of my post is false.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

No you are not.
The only time anyone can endanger another is if it is necessary for defense.
There can be no exception to this basis concept of rights.
Police, or any armed citizen, can not legally have any additional rights than defense if there is a threat to their life.
And police can not resort to lethal force when faced with less than lethal resistance, because police have less than lethal alternatives.

They extended the castle doctrine our vehicles who's owners have CCW's. In other words, breaking into my car is no different than breaking into my home. I'm allowed to use deadly force against an intruder even if he doesn't have so much as a club

Would you mind posting that law Ray because I think you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

IF you're in your vehicle then the castle doctrine may extend to it, but I'm pretty sure it's still unlawful to use deadly force to protect property.

 

[freyasman]

There is nothing wrong with questioning why a public servant (who puts food on the table with tax money extorted from me) is pointing a gun at me and threatening to kill me......

When you believe the cop is a split second away from pulling the trigger thats a pretty dumb time to play barracks lawyer

if the black person in question has a lick of sense they will comply and argue about it later

so the question becomes is the black guy stupid, suicidal, or lying about his mortal fear of police?

He was scared of the aggressive cop and rather than assuring him that complying would be safe, that dumb fucking cop validated his fear. You want compliance, you need to convince people that compliance is the safe option, not tell them the exact opposite.

"I'm negotiating right up until I pull the trigger."

If the guy believes he is going to get his ass kicked no matter what, why the hell would he comply?

Negotiating fail.

 

[freyasman]

When I was instructed to do something that was against regs by higher ups, I just flat refused on several occasions, and then documented it.

What did they do to you when you refused to follow the order and it was a legal order?

I never did that.

I agreed to follow the rules when I signed up and I did.

I didn't try to get subordinates to do dirt for me and then deny that I ever gave those instructions when the investigators came around.


I got a news flash for you; a lot of those lifer vets that you thank for their service, are some of the most ethically challenged and morally corrupt shitbags you will ever meet.

Not all of them are like that, but a hell of a lot more than you think are.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Would you mind posting that law Ray because I think you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

IF you're in your vehicle then the castle doctrine may extend to it, but I'm pretty sure it's still unlawful to use deadly force to protect property.

The “Castle Doctrine”

When I speak at U.S. LawShield events, I like to talk about the spectrum of duty to retreat principles when describing the Castle Doctrine.

In some states, like ours before the institution of this law in 2008, there was a duty to retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force—everywhere without exception. That is one end of the spectrum. The other end is “Stand Your Ground,” which removes the duty to retreat everywhere, like in Florida, Kentucky, and Georgia, for example.

Well, in the middle of the spectrum is the “Castle Doctrine,” where Ohio has determined that gun owners who resort to deadly force while in their “castle” may do so without the burden of having to retreat first.

What it Means for You

Now that was a lot of legal terminology. So, let me break down the specifics so we all know what they mean by “residence” and “vehicle.”

“Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as a guest. “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

See how they are more broadly defined than you might have thought? It’s not necessarily just the house you pay the mortgage on or the apartment or condo you rent. It’s anywhere you may be laying your head for the night. A temporary habitation: this could be a tent in the woods while camping, for instance. And the vehicle exception extends to vehicles that you own, are riding in, or in those of immediate family members. These definitions allow the protections of the law to follow you when you are not actually at home, but maybe out and about on vacation within the state, or simply running day-to-day errands.


Limits of Your “Castle”

Let’s quickly define the parameters.

For vehicles it’s easy: you are either in the car or you aren’t. A road rage incident where things develop after you exit your vehicle will likely not fall into the category, so your occupation of the vehicle at the time is very important.

Castle Doctrine in Ohio

Ohio law may treat self-defense cases differently based on location. Learn about Castle Doctrine in Ohio & how you can better protect you and your family.

www.uslawshield.com

Now, this is a bit dated; less than a year ago. However they changed the law for CCW holders again. As of last Monday, we also adopted the Stand Your Ground law.

 

[freyasman]

No you are not.
The only time anyone can endanger another is if it is necessary for defense.
There can be no exception to this basis concept of rights.
Police, or any armed citizen, can not legally have any additional rights than defense if there is a threat to their life.
And police can not resort to lethal force when faced with less than lethal resistance, because police have less than lethal alternatives.

They extended the castle doctrine our vehicles who's owners have CCW's. In other words, breaking into my car is no different than breaking into my home. I'm allowed to use deadly force against an intruder even if he doesn't have so much as a club

Would you mind posting that law Ray because I think you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

IF you're in your vehicle then the castle doctrine may extend to it, but I'm pretty sure it's still unlawful to use deadly force to protect property.

Texas is the only state I know of where deadly force can be used to protect property, but the circumstances are pretty narrow..... I just don't even try it.
(Or at least I wouldn't try it as a legal defense.)

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

By all means Ray tell me which part of my post is false.

It's false that cops are out to get and kill black people. Cops kill more white suspects than black, and that's especially true of unarmed suspects.

So why do you think differently? Because that's all the MSM tells you about, the cops killing black people. When was the last story in the national media of an unarmed white guy getting killed? You would think that since it happens way more often than black people, there would be even more stories on it. But unless it happens in your own city, then you'd never know about it because it's only reported locally.

You have to remember the media loves protests, and they love riots even more. So they need to convince black people that this is only happening to them and nobody else. By keeping this information from blacks, it angers them all the more because they feel singled out.

 

[Coyote]

Those were piss poor tactics on the part of the officer.

If a perpetrator refuses to obey multiple orders by law enforcement, force is their only option. In this case the use of pepper spray was the lesser of the force that could have been applied. Would you have preferred the deployment of the Taser?

Problem is... when they DO obey...

and get shot.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Problem is... when they DO obey...

and get shot.

In those rare events, the officer faces murder or like charges. Figure it this way: If I don't fight the cop and he kills me, at least he will be going to prison. If I fight him and he kills me, he's not going to face any penalty.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Would you mind posting that law Ray because I think you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

IF you're in your vehicle then the castle doctrine may extend to it, but I'm pretty sure it's still unlawful to use deadly force to protect property.

The “Castle Doctrine”

When I speak at U.S. LawShield events, I like to talk about the spectrum of duty to retreat principles when describing the Castle Doctrine.

In some states, like ours before the institution of this law in 2008, there was a duty to retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force—everywhere without exception. That is one end of the spectrum. The other end is “Stand Your Ground,” which removes the duty to retreat everywhere, like in Florida, Kentucky, and Georgia, for example.

Well, in the middle of the spectrum is the “Castle Doctrine,” where Ohio has determined that gun owners who resort to deadly force while in their “castle” may do so without the burden of having to retreat first.

What it Means for You

Now that was a lot of legal terminology. So, let me break down the specifics so we all know what they mean by “residence” and “vehicle.”

“Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as a guest. “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

See how they are more broadly defined than you might have thought? It’s not necessarily just the house you pay the mortgage on or the apartment or condo you rent. It’s anywhere you may be laying your head for the night. A temporary habitation: this could be a tent in the woods while camping, for instance. And the vehicle exception extends to vehicles that you own, are riding in, or in those of immediate family members. These definitions allow the protections of the law to follow you when you are not actually at home, but maybe out and about on vacation within the state, or simply running day-to-day errands.


Limits of Your “Castle”

Let’s quickly define the parameters.

For vehicles it’s easy: you are either in the car or you aren’t. A road rage incident where things develop after you exit your vehicle will likely not fall into the category, so your occupation of the vehicle at the time is very important.

Castle Doctrine in Ohio

Ohio law may treat self-defense cases differently based on location. Learn about Castle Doctrine in Ohio & how you can better protect you and your family.

www.uslawshield.com

Now, this is a bit dated; less than a year ago. However they changed the law for CCW holders again. As of last Monday, we also adopted the Stand Your Ground law.

Well since the laws are enforced at state level I was asking for the state law that extends the castle doctrine to your vehicle.

I thought you were in Michigan not Ohio but I didn't look up the applicable law in either state, I figured it would be easier to just ask you since you seem to be familiar with it as I would expect you to be.

I would hate to see you get into trouble simply due to a lack of a little bit of knowledge.

 

[SavannahMann]

The cop could not pummel the teen and arrest him

The cop did not hit the kid

but he did humiliate the punk in front of his friends

I see nothing wrong with that

Fighting or provoking words are against the law. So you don’t see a problem with the police committing crimes?

Disorderly Conduct in Georgia

Charged with Disorderly Conduct in Georgia? Want to know what "fighting words" are? Click to learn more or call me today at 404-403-2665.

kevinfisherlegal.com

Are there any other laws the police don’t need to follow in your respect the law mentality?

 

[Superbadbrutha]

By all means Ray tell me which part of my post is false.

It's false that cops are out to get and kill black people. Cops kill more white suspects than black, and that's especially true of unarmed suspects.

I am not focusing on the black folks they kill, I look at the black folks who are harassed, beaten, evidence planted on, etc.

So why do you think differently? Because that's all the MSM tells you about, the cops killing black people.

Do you not realize that black folks don't need anyone to tell us shit when it comes to the police, many of us speak from out OWN experiences with the cops.

When was the last story in the national media of an unarmed white guy getting killed?

Who was the last white guy who was killed by police when they accidentally grabbed their gun when they meant to grab their tasor?

You would think that since it happens way more often than black people, there would be even more stories on it. But unless it happens in your own city, then you'd never know about it because it's only reported locally.

Do you realize how many situations aren't caught on video.

You have to remember the media loves protests, and they love riots even more. So they need to convince black people that this is only happening to them and nobody else. By keeping this information from blacks, it angers them all the more because they feel singled out.

Police harassing, beating and killing black folks in this country is as old as Apple Pie, this isn't some shit that just started this has been going on since Slave Patrols were created.

 

[SavannahMann]

And that will be a good thing, because obviously police are currently trained illegally to infringe upon rights.
For example, it is a criminal felony for police to point a gun at anyone who is not armed.

It is not. Police (and armed citizens) are allowed to even shoot people who are not armed.

The circumstances determine if the action is justified. As the McMichaels have found to their sorrow it is illegal in a vast majority of circumstances.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well since the laws are enforced at state level I was asking for the state law that extends the castle doctrine to your vehicle.

I thought you were in Michigan not Ohio but I didn't look up the applicable law in either state, I figured it would be easier to just ask you since you seem to be familiar with it as I would expect you to be.

I would hate to see you get into trouble simply due to a lack of a little bit of knowledge.

Thank you for your concern, but that's why we have to endure 10 hours of class time to obtain a CCW. You need to know the laws at least well enough to pass the written test which does cover a lot of those laws.

To be honest, when I strap on my gun, I pray to God I don't have to use it even if it's a justified killing. I would like to think most CCW holders feel the same way. Anti-gunners have this false belief we armed citizens dream of the day when the opportunity arises to actually kill a bad guy. But I heed the words of my father who never talks about killing in the Korean war. One thing he did say is that when you kill somebody, it's a feeling like you never had in your life, and wish you didn't.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

They could have calmly explained why he was stopped, hand him a ticket, and then leave.

No they couldn't because they didn't even know WTF they were dealing with. That's why police explain everything that's going on after the subject is secured.

Explain how this citation stop turned into a felony stop. Don't even try disputing the contact not initially pulling over and driving to a well lit area. It's perfectly legal to do this, so your dispute is in vain.

So. Explain how this citation stop turned into a felony stop. Be specific, please.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The circumstances determine if the action is justified. As the McMichaels have found to their sorrow it is illegal in a vast majority of circumstances.

That case is still undecided as far as I know. But if you look at our law, the two words in there are "believe" and "serious bodily harm." We learned that there is no legal definition what serious bodily harm is. For a prosecutor to bring charges against a shooter, he has to prove what he believed at the time which unless you go on Facebook or something and brag that you set somebody up, is impossible to prove. Nobody can tell what I actually believed at the time.

However statistics show that CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in our country. One of the reasons for that is when you complete class, pass it and apply, they check you out until the time you became an adult.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Explain how this citation stop turned into a felony stop. Don't even try disputing the contact not initially pulling over and driving to a well lit area. It's perfectly legal to do this, so your dispute is in vain.

So. Explain how this citation stop turned into a felony stop. Be specific, please.

What the rookie officer called in at the time is irrelevant to what took place. Yes, it's legal to drive to a well lit area with people around if you are unsure if the lights belong to a real cop or an impersonator. And I'm sure if they were pulling him over for speeding or going over the double yellow, they would have approached the vehicle differently. But when the vehicle had no clear visible plate and drove for a mile before stopping, they probably suspected that the vehicle may be stolen. When they exited the police cars and gave orders to the driver, he refused to obey their orders supporting their beliefs even more.