Ohio to teach "both sides" of the Holocaust

[Tommy Tainant]

What's the point of learning History?

Is it to learn "what happened"? Or is it to learn skills to be used later on in life, like the ability to make an argument?

One look around this message board and you'll see that most people can't make an argument for shit. They can't deal with sources, they can't look objectively at things.

That's where learning History comes in. If done properly.

So this woman is right. She might not be right for the right reasons, but even the Holocaust should be looked at from differing points of view.

I get that. But these types have no credibility and it is right to be suspicious of them.
Particularly hen she talks of "hundreds of thousands " of victims.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I get that. But these types have no credibility and it is right to be suspicious of them.
Particularly hen she talks of "hundreds of thousands " of victims.

But then you're supporting people accepting what could be misinformation in order to stop other people presenting misinformation. It's a dangerous thing to do.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This is what she actually said.


"Or maybe you’re listening to it from the perspective of a Jewish person that has gone through the tragedies that took place,” she said, describing how a hypothetical lesson that complies with the law could unfold. “And maybe you’ll listen to it from the perspective of a German soldier.”

That is not her arguing that for a PRO- Genocide argument to be presented as valid. Which is the lie that the media is pushing here.

Haha, hold up there, professor.

What she is saying is that it should not be taught at all, unless the perspective of a German soldier is also taught. She all but outright stated that the German soldier's perspective has just as much value as that of a Jew going through the Holocaust.

Let's be crystal clear.

this is why her own party members are throwing her under the bus.

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe they can teach the kids to sing……Springtime for Hitler

 

[Disir]

God forbid students learn about what the nazis thought of it.


God forbid they learn about how Nazis thought that Jews could be identified by skull shape, or how they used human skin as wallets. God forbid they learn about how nazis were brainwashed to the point that they were willing to drop in canisters of poisonous gas to kill human beings. God forbid they teach students how one man enamored and brainwashed an entire populace into becoming killing machines.

I don't know if you have ever seen this before. I'm not trying to talk to you like your stupid. What you are referring to as far as skull shape is called phrenology or craniology.

https://lps.library.cmu.edu/ETHOS/article/id/482/

Craniology History | Morton Crania Collection - Penn Museum

A History of Craniology in Race Science and Physical Anthropology

www.penn.museum

 

[Confederate Soldier]

I don't know if you have ever seen this before. I'm not trying to talk to you like your stupid. What you are referring to as far as skull shape is called phrenology or craniology.

https://lps.library.cmu.edu/ETHOS/article/id/482/

Craniology History | Morton Crania Collection - Penn Museum

A History of Craniology in Race Science and Physical Anthropology

www.penn.museum

They saw it as specifically a thing to Identify Aryans vs. non-aryans, and to show how they were inferior to aryan races, even down to the bone structure.

 

[Disir]

They saw it as specifically a thing to Identify Aryans vs. non-aryans, and to show how they were inferior to aryan races, even down to the bone structure.

I know. That would be the race component of phrenology/craniology. You will read that more in the second link.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

God forbid students learn about what the nazis thought of it.


God forbid they learn about how Nazis thought that Jews could be identified by skull shape, or how they used human skin as wallets. God forbid they learn about how nazis were brainwashed to the point that they were willing to drop in canisters of poisonous gas to kill human beings. God forbid they teach students how one man enamored and brainwashed an entire populace into becoming killing machines.

They do learn about that stuff. You seem lost. Which German soldier or camp guard did that research? She is talking about the perspective of a German soldier being taught.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

They do learn about that stuff. You seem lost. Which German soldier or camp guard did that research? She is talking about the perspective of a German soldier being taught.

And what is wrong with that? Isn't their view already being taught? How the nazi saw the jew, how the nazis followed their leader who brainwashed them, etc? What do you think she's going to teach them about?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And what is wrong with that?

Saying that nothing at all about the holocaust should be taught to anyone, unless the perspective of a German footsoldier is also presented?

I am going to leave that to you as an exercise. Good luck.

 

[Disir]

I'll take Buck v Bell for $200

 

[Confederate Soldier]

Saying that nothing at all about the holocaust should be taught to anyone, unless the perspective of a German footsoldier is also presented?

I am going to leave that to you as an exercise. Good luck.

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm asking you, what do you think she wants to teach?


By the way, it was SS Totenkampf that did most of the killing, not footsoldiers. Footsoldiers DID participate, but not on a wide scale.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm asking you, what do you think she wants to teach?

Per her example, nothing at all about the holocaust, unless the perspective of a German soldier is also presented. We don't have to guess. These are her words.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

God forbid students learn about what the nazis thought of it.


God forbid they learn about how Nazis thought that Jews could be identified by skull shape, or how they used human skin as wallets. God forbid they learn about how nazis were brainwashed to the point that they were willing to drop in canisters of poisonous gas to kill human beings. God forbid they teach students how one man enamored and brainwashed an entire populace into becoming killing machines.

Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it. I don't know this women's particular intentions, but I don't see it as a bad thing to understand the thought processes of the Nazis for the reasons you just lied out. It's important to understand how an entire population could be brainwashed into committing the atrocities they did.

 

[Stryder50]

54+ posts here and would seem none of you read the linked article. There is the following last paragraph at the end and I'm wondering how it fits the derivations presented so far? ;
...
Her bill as written would prohibit state teachers from teaching “divisive concepts,” such as that “one nationality, color, ethnicity, race, or sex is inherently superior to another nationality, color, ethnicity, race, or sex,” in nearly identical wording to other state bills seeking to ban “critical race theory” — an academic and legal concept that has become a rallying cry for Republicans across the country.
...

Ohio lawmaker wants to teach the Holocaust ‘from the perspective of the Nazis'

State Rep. Sarah Fowler Arthur made the comments when explaining to a local news station why she believes that “divisive concepts” should be taught from multiple points of view.

www.jpost.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't see where any of you got this story correct.

 

[Disir]

54+ posts here and would seem none of you read the linked article. There is the following last paragraph at the end and I'm wondering how it fits the derivations presented so far? ;
...
Her bill as written would prohibit state teachers from teaching “divisive concepts,” such as that “one nationality, color, ethnicity, race, or sex is inherently superior to another nationality, color, ethnicity, race, or sex,” in nearly identical wording to other state bills seeking to ban “critical race theory” — an academic and legal concept that has become a rallying cry for Republicans across the country.
...

Ohio lawmaker wants to teach the Holocaust ‘from the perspective of the Nazis'

State Rep. Sarah Fowler Arthur made the comments when explaining to a local news station why she believes that “divisive concepts” should be taught from multiple points of view.

www.jpost.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't see where any of you got this story correct.

There is nothing deep here, Stryder. She came to her conclusions from some audio books. It is very, very clear that she knows nothing about the education system. Nothing. She's just stupid. When she realized how stupid she was, Ms. Fowler attempted to backtrack on her stupidity and say she didn't want anyone to come in and say:
Well, obviously the German government was right in saying that the Aryan race is superior to all other races, and therefore that they were acting rightly when they murdered hundreds of thousands of people for having a different color of skin,'

There is your sign that she hasn't a clue. Nobody is doing that.

Trying to frame this as between the Germans and the Jews and how we just don't take sides is incomprehensible. The US and several other countries were heavily involved in eugenics. FACT. You need to see white people in it? Appalachian sterilizations, plutonium experiments on school for intellectually disabled men, Buck v Bell. Black people? Tuskegee syphilis study.

The "Nazi" POV was to dehumanize them, over classify them and reduce them to numbers (looking at IBM here). Be ready for the blowback.

The Nazi's went one step further from where multiple countries were at and then, after the reception, decided that it was too far. What are you going to do? Show Eichmann tapes? Have the kids read excerpts from Ordinary Men or Hannah Arendt's Banality of Evil? They will say that they didn't know, they were following orders and, sometimes, they didn't do it.

 

[Polishprince]

Ohio lawmaker wants to teach the Holocaust ‘from the perspective of the Nazis'

State Rep. Sarah Fowler Arthur made the comments when explaining to a local news station why she believes that “divisive concepts” should be taught from multiple points of view.

www.jpost.com

State Rep. Sarah Fowler Arthur made the comments when explaining to a local news station why she believes that “divisive concepts” should be taught from multiple points of view.​

Oh boy.Great that we can learn the guards perspective at last. WEF is wrong with these people ?
Why is this ok with the GOP but CRT is verboten ?

Sarah Fowler Arthur was homeschooled.

If you've ever been to Ohio, you would know that there are a lot of Germans that live in the state so approaching this topic with sensitivity is probably pretty smart and diplomatic. Unless and until the German Leadership is willing to accept responsibility and apologize to America for the holocaust and WW2, there is little reason to blame little German American children in the classroom.

 

[Disir]

If you've ever been to Ohio, you would know that there are a lot of Germans that live in the state so approaching this topic with sensitivity is probably pretty smart and diplomatic. Unless and until the German Leadership is willing to accept responsibility and apologize to America for the holocaust and WW2, there is little reason to blame little German American children in the classroom.

You know that the US rounded up German-Americans and Italian-Americans and put them into little "internment camps", right?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

But then you're supporting people accepting what could be misinformation in order to stop other people presenting misinformation. It's a dangerous thing to do.

But the verdict is in. They were guilty. They have no justification for what they did. no amount of revisionism is going to change that.

 

[Polishprince]

But the verdict is in. They were guilty. They have no justification for what they did. no amount of revisionism is going to change that.

The Germans were guilty, just like the French were guilty in the Napoleonic wars and the Italians were when they sacked the Jewish capital back in the day.

But its a matter of manners that you use a a little bit of discretion and diplomacy especially when the perps descendants are in the classroom.