Opinion Piece: "Why Progressives Misead"

[hazlnut]

.

Wow, this is a topic that I think about quite a bit, pretty amazing to have someone write about it:

Why Progressives Mislead by John O. McGinnis City Journal Winter 2015

The primary point is that "Progressivism’s vision of the role of the state conflicts with the system of government envisioned by America’s Founders", and therefore they feel they have to be less than honest about their real goals to see them fulfilled.

I agree completely with that.

Thing is, as a person who agrees with them on many left-of-center issues (or at least disagree with conservatives on them), I don't think dishonesty is necessary. If we are correct on those issues, we should be able to win the battle of ideas in completely honest conversation, yes? And if we lose, then the country just isn't with us, at least right now.

.

Misead?

WTF is that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Especially the part about how I lean left on many issues, they sure as hell don't want to hear that.
.

can you give us the best example of where leaning left is not stupid?

Based on that question, I would imagine that you would think that anything that exists outside of your ideological vacuum is "stupid".

Further, I must admit I'm not quite sure how to communicate with a person who would ask such a childish (or is it child-like?) question.

So I guess you have me there. Congrats on that.

.

The best way to refute what he wrote would be to give an example of where leaning left was not stupid. You'd have to define "leaning left" and "not stupid" to make the case. But if you maintain some leftish views then it shouldnt be a problem to state them and defend them.

 

[g5000]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

Way to go! You said nothing. But...you did use a phrase that most people will have to google.......in offering a baseless condemnation of progressives. Kudos!

I consider myself to be a progressive. I've no designs on stealing anything. And I don't lie to myself....or anyone else about my politics. You have a nice day, now.

 

[The Rabbi]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

Way to go! You said nothing. But...you did use a phrase that most people will have to google.......in offering a baseless condemnation of progressives. Kudos!

I consider myself to be a progressive. I've no designs on stealing anything. And I don't lie to myself....or anyone else about my politics. You have a nice day, now.

Do you support Obamacare or some similar program?

 

[Seawytch]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

Only in the most tongue in cheek manner. This isn't the plan we progressives wanted...we want single payer. It is fun to needle conservatives about the uninsured "freeloaders" though.

It's okay without the needling (and how insurance pools work)

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, it's tax the rich and corporations more because they use more of the commons than the "little guy".

 

[g5000]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

Way to go! You said nothing. But...you did use a phrase that most people will have to google.......in offering a baseless condemnation of progressives. Kudos!

I consider myself to be a progressive. I've no designs on stealing anything. And I don't lie to myself....or anyone else about my politics. You have a nice day, now.

Do you support "freeloaders" being forced to buy insurance, and to overpay for that insurance, so high school dropouts can get a government handout?

Because that is the underpinning of ObamaCare, without which it would collapse.

 

[The Rabbi]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

Only in the most tongue in cheek manner. This isn't the plan we progressives wanted...we want single payer. It is fun to needle conservatives about the uninsured "freeloaders" though.

It's okay without the needling (and how insurance pools work)

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, it's tax the rich and corporations more because they use more of the commons than the "little guy".

Single payer--because a government that cant get a fucking website to work certainly knows how to treat life threatening illness.
The model is the VA, a system you defended many times. Until it came out the VA was killing people using exactlu the same strategies they will use if single payer ever comes about.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

Way to go! You said nothing. But...you did use a phrase that most people will have to google.......in offering a baseless condemnation of progressives. Kudos!

I consider myself to be a progressive. I've no designs on stealing anything. And I don't lie to myself....or anyone else about my politics. You have a nice day, now.

Do you support "freeloaders" being forced to buy insurance, and to overpay for that insurance, so high school dropouts can get a government handout?

Because that is the underpinning of ObamaCare, without which it would collapse.

Nope. I do not support such idiocy. Can you try harder to reach for those bullshit emotional strings that you want to pull?

Ask me if I have ever called someone who doesn't buy insurance and doesn't use the emergency room for a primary physician a "freeloader". An idiot, maybe......

 

[Plasmaball]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

Only in the most tongue in cheek manner. This isn't the plan we progressives wanted...we want single payer. It is fun to needle conservatives about the uninsured "freeloaders" though.

It's okay without the needling (and how insurance pools work)

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, it's tax the rich and corporations more because they use more of the commons than the "little guy".

Single payer--because a government that cant get a fucking website to work certainly knows how to treat life threatening illness.
The model is the VA, a system you defended many times. Until it came out the VA was killing people using exactlu the same strategies they will use if single payer ever comes about.

VA has been an issue for decades. Single payer works just fine for other nations, we are just too retarded to do anything anymore.

 

[Plasmaball]

Examples? Got any cases of a USMB progressive clearly lying about his or her intentions? Is love to see that.

Progressives lie to themselves, which makes it easier to lie to everyone else.

For example, they call people who are voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders". This way, it makes it okay to rob the "freeloaders" so their money can be given to high school dropouts in the form of federal insurance subsidies.

It's very important to Progressives they justify their theft. It makes them feel they are moral. "Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. - Ronald Reagan


Progressives live under the destructive delusion they can immanentize the Eschaton.

I've never seen this argument from the left. Only time ive seen the term freeloaders are from the righties.

 

[Dragonlady]

And while right wingers and left wingers fling insults and abuse at each other, and blame each other for all that's gone wrong, jobs are leaving the US for the Third World, the quality of life for all but the most wealthy is deteriorating. Your country is going to hell in a handbasket, all either side does is blame the other.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. The government is paralyzed by inaction because no one will compromise.

If you can't remember how to co-exist, and co-operate, the US will continue to decline.

 

[Mac1958]

And while right wingers and left wingers fling insults and abuse at each other, and blame each other for all that's gone wrong, jobs are leaving the US for the Third World, the quality of life for all but the most wealthy is deteriorating. Your country is going to hell in a handbasket, all either side does is blame the other.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. The government is paralyzed by inaction because no one will compromise.

If you can't remember how to co-exist, and co-operate, the US will continue to decline.

The narcissists have taken over both ends of the spectrum.

.

 

[JoeB131]

From black to white, from Doctor to professional politiican that is the Republican field. The Democrat field, is Hillary. That is all you need to know.

Guy, you don't have a field. You've got Jeb Bush and a bunch of crazy people who will say Crazy shit to make Bush seem more attractive and you forget what fuckups his father and brother were. They are pretty much like Bridesmaids. They all wear the ugly dresses to make the bride look better.

More precisely gay marriage, what a devisive term, is not illegal in 38 states, big difference. Most, if not all those states gay marriage was made not illegal by a court ruling on a law that was passed defining marriage between a man and a woman. You are doing exactly what Mac talks about, being misleading.

And as I remember the DOMA was passed.

Yeah, DOMA was passed. So were those anti-Flag burning laws. And they were unconstitutional when they were passed and everyone knew it.

DOMA is unconstitutional because there's something called "The Full Faith and Credit Clause". If one state recognizes a marriage, all the other states have to recognize it, even if it is illegal in their state, (such as marrying your cousin in FLorida or marrying a 14 year old in Texas)

But again, Bush was going to go beyond DOMA. He was going to pass a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT defining marriage as one man and one woman for the whole country, fuck you Massachusetts! Oh, but wait. After the election he totally forgot about that and thought he had a mandate to help Wall Street loot Social Security.

God, you conservatives are chumps.

 

[JFK_USA]

Read through it. The author gave us Obamacare as an example of Progressives misleading America....he called it subterfuge, mentioned Jonathan Gruber and identity politics. A Mac Grand Slam!

The author forgot to add he is a Kenyan Muslim Communist who hates America. He will not be invited to CPAC.

 

[JoeB131]

Are you claiming W was a right winger? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Of course he was right wing. He just wasn't batshit crazy like you are.

 

[gipper]

Are you claiming W was a right winger? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Of course he was right wing. He just wasn't batshit crazy like you are.

You believe in big unlimited government controlled by a small elite...and I am the one who is batshit crazy.

 

[zeke]

"Tax the rich more" because the rich are evil bastards and so it is okay to rob them. Tax corporations more because corporations are polluters and exploiters, blah, blah, blah.

Oh horseshit. Tax the ultra rich and the corporations more because........wait for it.........they are the ones that have made all the fucking money for the past 7 years. How much has the net worth and income of the ultra wealthy risen? How many corporations have shown record profits?

If you don't tax those that have made all the money and profit, who would you suggest be taxed more? Poor people?

 

[zeke]

Single payer--because a government that cant get a fucking website to work certainly knows how to treat life threatening illness.

Really rabbit. It was a private company under government contract that couldn't get the web site to work.
Then when the government came down on them for mishandling the contract, somehow the companies got the Web site working. As it does now. Try again.

 

[bodecea]

Wow, got a whole lot of "miseading" going on.

I think I Misead the title.