Our European Allies

[freeandfun1]

There are one or two European companies, but they are in Germany and France. When you exlude those you get only one that can do what Halliburton does with the experience necessary and the ability combined with the resources.

Since the US was unwilling to let countries that would not help profit from the sacrifice of those who did I can definitely see why Halliburton got the contract.

And the French company is owned by Haliburton..... lol

 

[dilloduck]

You're not going to find that anywhere because you can't say that and not get sued...you know that.
According to Molly Ivins of the salt lake tribune:

Between 1997 and 2000, while Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, the company sold $73 million worth of oil field equipment and services to Saddam Hussein.
At least Halliburton was not selling luxury cars to the Baathist elite. Halliburton, the oilfield equipment company, merely kept Saddam Hussein's oil fields pumping, the only thing that allowed the s.o.b. to stay in power. Halliburton cleverly ran its business with Saddam through two of its subsidiaries, Dresser Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser, in order to avoid the sanctions.
Unlike the Germans, the French and the Russians, Halliburton was not punished by the Bush administration for dealing with the dictator. Instead, it got the largest reconstruction contract given by this administration, with an estimated value between $5 billion and $15 billion. And the company got the contract without competitive bidding

You could only be successfully sued if it was a lie--Thats' why she didn't say it! Like I said--quit making allegations that you cannot prove and someone may actually listen to what you have to say. Now you're just on the Flaming Bozo list of foreign whiners.

 

[j07950]

We sure do, because they are!

France is pissed cuz French is no longer the world's banking language. I remember when all Letter's of Credit were in French, but no longer.

You lose cuz the French suck! Now go suck on a tailpipe someplace. You are annoying.

LOL...You guys are so funny...
Comments like "the French suck" are so childish...did I ever say anything like americans suck? Nope...
Your such a sorry bunch of whinners...got nothing else to do all day than gang up on foreigners even if some of what they say makes sence. Go and do some work if you guys actually get paid to do something. You're all a bunch or republicans and love your deer president so much...that's why there is no real debate in here. Whatever is said by bush you worshipe. I'd like to see some Democrates in here...

 

[Johnney]

LOL...You guys are so funny...
Comments like "the French suck" are so childish...

sad part is its true

 

[no1tovote4]

LOL...You guys are so funny...
Comments like "the French suck" are so childish...did I ever say anything like americans suck? Nope...
Your such a sorry bunch of whinners...got nothing else to do all day than gang up on foreigners even if some of what they say makes sence. Go and do some work if you guys actually get paid to do something. You're all a bunch or republicans and love your deer president so much...that's why there is no real debate in here. Whatever is said by bush you worshipe. I'd like to see some Democrates in here...

There are some. Bullypulpit, ACLUDem, Missileman, Nakedemperor, Lolita and others. There is even a truly arrogant French guy under the name of Padisha Emperor. This site leans right, but isn't 100% Republican.

Personally I am Libertarian, not Republican. I just lean more towards the Republican view. Getting upset and "insulting" everybody on the site because one or two people insult you isn't the way to go. Show a thicker skin and continue. So far you don't insult and are one of the least arrogant French posters that I have seen, one of the first that will actually debate rather than simply post Anti-US sites and expect us all to agree.

 

[j07950]

There are some. Bullypulpit, ACLUDem, Missileman, Nakedemperor, Lolita and others. There is even a truly arrogant French guy under the name of Padisha Emperor. This site leans right, but isn't 100% Republican.

Personally I am Libertarian, not Republican. I just lean more towards the Republican view. Getting upset and "insulting" everybody on the site because one or two people insult you isn't the way to go. Show a thicker skin and continue. So far you don't insult and are one of the least arrogant French posters that I have seen, one of the first that will actually debate rather than simply post Anti-US sites and expect us all to agree.

I know I shouldn't get all upset because eventhough I'm not a strong french supporter I can't stand people insulting us for the sake of it. The mentality of these people is "we think you hate us so we hate you"...Such childiness...
They don't actually want to have a debate, they all agree and can't stand different point of views. Their only interest is to despise the rest of the world.

 

[CSM]

I know I shouldn't get all upset because eventhough I'm not a strong french supporter I can't stand people insulting us for the sake of it. The mentality of these people is "we think you hate us so we hate you"...Such childiness...
They don't actually want to have a debate, they all agree and can't stand different point of views. Their only interest is to despise the rest of the world.

Exactly! it is not that they cannot tolerate a different point of view; it is that they get defensive when they feel they are being insulted just for the sake of it. For the most part, they do not despise the rest of the world, they are just scornful of what they percieve as another European bent only on bashing the US.

You are not the first foriegner to post on this board. Most of the others got themselves banned rather quickly. They were guilty of exactly what you accuse some here of...their interests were soley in bashing the US and the people who post here.

I have great hope that this will not be the case with you.

 

[j07950]

Exactly! it is not that they cannot tolerate a different point of view; it is that they get defensive when they feel they are being insulted just for the sake of it. For the most part, they do not despise the rest of the world, they are just scornful of what they percieve as another European bent only on bashing the US.

You are not the first foriegner to post on this board. Most of the others got themselves banned rather quickly. They were guilty of exactly what you accuse some here of...their interests were soley in bashing the US and the people who post here.

I have great hope that this will not be the case with you.

I surely wasn't, I'm trying to explain why some of us Europeans feel this way about some of the descisions the US makes. You criticize us on this message board for opposing but don't care in knowing truly why. I'm just trying to get my point of view across about why we are against some US policies.

 

[freeandfun1]

I surely isn't, I'm trying to explain why some of us Europeans feel this way about some of the decisions the US makes. You criticize us on this message board for opposing but don't care in knowing truly why. I'm just trying to get my point of view across about why we are against some US policies.

Fair enough, but if you want us to understand your point of view, don't you think you should try to understand ours? I hate double standards and that is why I get "short".

I do not despise the rest of the world. I have lived and worked overseas and my company depends on exports (95% of our business). I have traveled far and often and I have many friends all over the world. Some agree with us, some don't. With them though I can have a civil debate because they listen, ponder my point of view and then either agree or offer a thoughtful and compelling counter argument.

I agree with the others that, at least, you don't hit and run. But you have to admit that you are as close minded as you are accusing us of being. That is not a good way or even an educating way to have a debate about issues.

You condescending attitude "you are all Bush lovers... blah, blah, blah" doesn't help. If you want to provide a counterpoint, do so by using facts and not conjecture or opinion.

 

[CSM]

I surely wasn't, I'm trying to explain why some of us Europeans feel this way about some of the descisions the US makes. You criticize us on this message board for opposing but don't care in knowing truly why. I'm just trying to get my point of view across about why we are against some US policies.

I understand.

I can tell you from some of the links you have provided and some of your statements that you have made, you come across as an anti American European...because we have seen those links and heard that rhetoric many times over the past year especially...mostly because of the anti Bush posters during the Presedential elections.

That is why I asked you early on if you had links to opposing views. I provided a few which you seemed to reject out of hand (I laughed when you expressed skepticism at the government websites).

Also try to understand that when you post your views, people are naturally going to try to counter those views.

 

[j07950]

Fair enough, but if you want us to understand your point of view, don't you think you should try to understand ours? I hate double standards and that is why I get "short".

I do not despise the rest of the world. I have lived and worked overseas and my company depends on exports (95% of our business). I have traveled far and often and I have many friends all over the world. Some agree with us, some don't. With them though I can have a civil debate because they listen, ponder my point of view and then either agree or offer a thoughtful and compelling counter argument.

I agree with the others that, at least, you don't hit and run. But you have to admit that you are as close minded as you are accusing us of being. That is not a good way or even an educating way to have a debate about issues.

You condescending attitude "you are all Bush lovers... blah, blah, blah" doesn't help. If you want to provide a counterpoint, do so by using facts and not conjecture or opinion.

I've often said it when I agree with you guys, never heard anyone of you say you agreed with anything I said. The fact is that everyone here except foreigners agree with Bush's policy, so there is no real debate between americans. It would be nice to find americans that are opposed to what is happening. It would be more interesting as whatever we foreigners say is just bad because we're foreigners. I have used a lot of facts but they are always turned down, just because they are writen by liberals or democrates, that makes sence as the republican party is watching out for it's people, it would never say anything negative on the Bush policies, doesn't that make sence. Maybee I'm narrow minded as you say as much as I accuse you of being, I really am trying to be openminded though and have learned a lot from you guys (being openminded I think).

 

[CSM]

I've often said it when I agree with you guys, never heard anyone of you say you agreed. The fact is that everyone here except foreigners agree with Bush's policy, so there is no real debate between americans. It would be nice to find americans that are opposed to what is happening. It would be more interesting as whatever we foreigners say is just bad because we're foreigners. I have used a lot of facts but they are always turned down, just because they are writen by liberals or democrates, that makes sence as the republican party is watching out for it's people, it would never say anything negative on the Bush policies, doesn't that make sence. Maybee I'm narrow minded as you say as much as I accuse you of being, I really am trying to be openminded though and have learned a lot from you guys (being openminded I think).

I have agreed with you at least twice that I know of....maybe more... and said so. I think you were probably too involved to notice.

 

[j07950]

I have agreed with you at least twice that I know of....maybe more... and said so. I think you were probably too involved to notice.

I do remember, sorry, you're one of the very few. Thanks for that.

 

[CSM]

I do remember, sorry, you're one of the very few. Thanks for that.

Seriously, many on this board relish a real debate and exchange of views. That interest in exchange of ideas dissipates when they hear and see the same sources that are used to bash the hell out of the US. Many here are well aware that US foriegn policy is not always perfect and not always correct...and they want to talk about it too but they do not want to hear that some other nation is superior or better and the US is evil, our leaders are corrupt, etc....we get enough of that from Michael Moore, Hollywood, and many of our own news networks.

 

[freeandfun1]

Seriously, many on this board relish a real debate and exchange of views. That interest in exchange of ideas dissipates when they hear and see the same sources that are used to bash the hell out of the US. Many here are well aware that US foriegn policy is not always perfect and not always correct...and they want to talk about it too but they do not want to hear that some other nation is superior or better and the US is evil, our leaders are corrupt, etc....we get enough of that from Michael Moore, Hollywood, and many of our own news networks.

I would add that we are tired about hearing how "corrupt" our leaders are while those making the accusations ignore the corruption in their own countries.

 

[j07950]

Seriously, many on this board relish a real debate and exchange of views. That interest in exchange of ideas dissipates when they hear and see the same sources that are used to bash the hell out of the US. Many here are well aware that US foriegn policy is not always perfect and not always correct...and they want to talk about it too but they do not want to hear that some other nation is superior or better and the US is evil, our leaders are corrupt, etc....we get enough of that from Michael Moore, Hollywood, and many of our own news networks.

Totally agree with you...
Begining with "Many here are well aware that US foriegn policy is not always perfect " I think we should be able to have a debate if everyone agrees with you. That's what I've been trying to say but then you have people coming up saying the french sucks and thats that...I mean how are we suppose to exchange ideas this way?
But overall I agree with you...

 

[j07950]

I would add that we are tired about hearing how "corrupt" our leaders are while those making the accusations ignore the corruption in their own countries.

I've said many times that leaders from all countries are corrupt in some way, even the french, I've said it numerous times.

 

[freeandfun1]

I've said many times that leaders from all countries are corrupt in some way, even the french, I've said it numerous times.

I was no necessarily aiming that at you. As CSM was covering, the reason many of us tire of "debating" with the Anti-Bushites and the Anti-Americans is that they ignore their own culpability in the world's problems. Just like when Democrats come on here, bash Bush for Halliburton but ignore the fact that Clinton gave Halliburton no-bid contracts for Kosovo, or that Terry McAuliffe made $18 million off a $100K investment in Global Xing, etc., etc.

 

[j07950]

I was no necessarily aiming that at you. As CSM was covering, the reason many of us tire of "debating" with the Anti-Bushites and the Anti-Americans is that they ignore their own culpability in the world's problems. Just like when Democrats come on here, bash Bush for Halliburton but ignore the fact that Clinton gave Halliburton no-bid contracts for Kosovo, or that Terry McAuliffe made $18 million off a $100K investment in Global Xing, etc., etc.

Yeah I know...
I'm not an anti-american...just an anti-bush.
The whole Halliburton thing is complicated but Dick Cheaney still being linked doesn't really help either does it?! That's mostly what it's about...I believe.
I know France has done many bad things...won't deny that.

 

[CSM]

Yeah I know...
I'm not an anti-american...just an anti-bush.
The whole Halliburton thing is complicated but Dick Cheaney still being linked doesn't really help either does it?! That's mostly what it's about...I believe.
I know France has done many bad things...won't deny that.

I guess I dont understand the anti-Bush sentiment you express....despite the rhetoric that was spewed during the presidential campaign, the President of the United States does not wield absolute power. In fact, much of our foriegn, economic, domestic policy, etc. is the responsibility of the Congress.