Palestine Today

[Hollie]

No it hasn't.

Of course it has.

I have seen a lot of smoke blown at it, but specific issues were not addressed.

Yes. They were.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you get this wrong every single time.

What is NATIONALITY?Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed.
That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.
​

Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.

(COMMENT)

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.

While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.

Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?

(COMMENT)

The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel. Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.

• Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) •
Article 8 (2b) War crimes
(iv) Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; (Related to the older A/RES/2/110)

• Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression •
Article 1
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

• Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war •
1.

Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00

You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.

Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?

You post videos. So what is your point?

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you get this wrong every single time.

What is NATIONALITY?Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed.
That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.
​

Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.

(COMMENT)

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.

While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.

Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?

(COMMENT)

The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel. Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.

• Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) •
Article 8 (2b) War crimes
(iv) Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; (Related to the older A/RES/2/110)

• Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression •
Article 1
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

• Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war •
1.

Condemns all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00

You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.

Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?

You post videos. So what is your point?

I understand your reasons for endlessly cutting and pasting the same YouTube videos (it’s a tactic to deflect from taking any responsibility for making an attempt to address the salient points), but doing so when they are indefensible reflects poorly on you and your application for martyrdom.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.

Susan M. Akram
Clinical Professor of Law
BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
JD, Georgetown University
Diplome in International Human Rights,
Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​

And I should believe you instead.

(COMMENT)

I gave you that information. You are not telling me anything new.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.

Susan M. Akram
Clinical Professor of Law
BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
JD, Georgetown University
Diplome in International Human Rights,
Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​

And I should believe you instead.

(COMMENT)

I gave you that information. You are not telling me anything new.

Most Respectfully,
R

What part of all that verbosity refuted anything she said?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OFF-TOPIC: Those that can create something, can also alter that something. In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire (to the Allied Powers).

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?

(COMMENT)

You are asking for something that does not exist [authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]. Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force. From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OFF-TOPIC: Those that can create something, can also alter that something. In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire (to the Allied Powers).

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?

(COMMENT)

You are asking for something that does not exist [authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]. Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force. From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia.

Most Respectfully,
R

Instead of blowing smoke at it just answer the question.

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?​

According to the UN Charter, nobody.

 

[P F Tinmore]

in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire

The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe I said that...

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OFF-TOPIC: Those that can create something, can also alter that something. In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire (to the Allied Powers).

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?

(COMMENT)

You are asking for something that does not exist [authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]. Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force. From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia.

Most Respectfully,
R

Instead of blowing smoke at it just answer the question.

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?​

According to the UN Charter, nobody.

(COMMENT)

First sentence of "Comment to Post #2967. "You are asking for something that does not exist [authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]."

But with you, I never know where you are going with such ridiculous question.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of your greatest stratagies. "Make it up as you go along."

in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire

The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.

(COMMENT)

Article 16 says nothing of the kind.

ARTICLE 16.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
​

That would be to the Allied Parties.

In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).

For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--

(a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.

(b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
​

A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says. YOU don't get to choose.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of your greatest stratagies. "Make it up as you go along."

in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire

The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.

(COMMENT)

Article 16 says nothing of the kind.

ARTICLE 16.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
​

That would be to the Allied Parties.

In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).

For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--

(a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.

(b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
​

A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says. YOU don't get to choose.

Most Respectfully,
R

How can you be so confused by simple language?
---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

--------------------
And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
--------------------
The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

------------------
Where do you get confused?

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

Co-produced by Pallywood Studios?

 

[Hollie]

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism

Yesterday morning, Palestinian terrorists fired a rocket from Gaza into Israel.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of your greatest stratagies. "Make it up as you go along."

in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire

The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.

(COMMENT)

Article 16 says nothing of the kind.

ARTICLE 16.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
​

That would be to the Allied Parties.

In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).

For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--

(a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.

(b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
​

A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says. YOU don't get to choose.

Most Respectfully,
R

How can you be so confused by simple language?
---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

--------------------
And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
--------------------
The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

------------------
Where do you get confused?

It really is remarkable that you continue to cut and paste these out of context snippets.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.

 

[Hollie]

A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.

Incitement to violence is a crime outside of Islamic terrorist enclaves.

 

[rylah]

A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.

What love?

She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.

Charles Manson wrote "poetry" as well...

 

[P F Tinmore]

A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.

What love?

She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.

Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...

That is what Israel says.