Palestine Today

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Shusha]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority. This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.

Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?

(PANELIST)

• Lawyer, journalist and activist.

• Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University

• Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​

(COMMENT)

This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view (ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided) and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.

You will no doubt notice that the first speaker (lawyer, journalist and activist) harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the GCIV. Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:

◈ The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory). And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.

◈ The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian (protected person or not) liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:

✦ The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
✦ Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
✦ Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
✦ Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons (no matter what their status).​

The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion. If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.


Most Respectfully,
R

This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view

So? pick put something they said and oppose away.

You could also address my comments.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are such a wise guy.

But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.

Nice deflection. Another example of sliming the source without addressing the content.[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

I addressed the content of the presenter very directly, in both previous replies (• Posting #14230 --- Posting #14238 •). The accusation was made and I presented exculpatory evidence to the contrary.

I explained the Presenter's accusation or inference → and → I presented the opposing view and favorable evidence that mitigate or exonerates the Israeli. This original information you presented, and then made the challenge directly to me to dispute, is what I did...

This, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view

So? pick put something they said and oppose away.

And so I did.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are such a wise guy.

But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.

Nice deflection. Another example of sliming the source without addressing the content.

(COMMENT)

I addressed the content of the presenter very directly, in both previous replies (• Posting #14230 --- Posting #14238 •). The accusation was made and I presented exculpatory evidence to the contrary.

I explained the Presenter's accusation or inference → and → I presented the opposing view and favorable evidence that mitigate or exonerates the Israeli. This original information you presented, and then made the challenge directly to me to dispute, is what I did...

This, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view

So? pick put something they said and oppose away.

And so I did.


Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
You are still shifting away from the issues she presented.

 

[USAF 2023]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority. This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.

Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?

(PANELIST)

• Lawyer, journalist and activist.

• Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University

• Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​

(COMMENT)

This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view (ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided) and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.

You will no doubt notice that the first speaker (lawyer, journalist and activist) harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the GCIV. Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:

◈ The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory). And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.

◈ The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian (protected person or not) liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:

✦ The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
✦ Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
✦ Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
✦ Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons (no matter what their status).​

The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion. If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.


Most Respectfully,
R

This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an argumentum ad passiones without an opposing view

So? pick put something they said and oppose away.

You could also address my comments.

He never dies when he’s defeated

 

[P F Tinmore]

Na'eem Jeenah on Israeli Apartheid, Geneva, April 2015 (English / French) (English starts @ 3:45)

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ et al,

So, would someone be so kind as to what "issue" I am shifting away from...

You are still shifting away from the issues she presented.

(COMMENT)

What is the issue he is talking about?

◈ I addressed the central issue to the accusation of "Apartheid" and "Racism."

◈ I addressed the issue that the Arab Palestinians violate the very international laws as a criminal party and not a protected person.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?

In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”

But you are perpetuating the settlements in the West Bank, and working together with Netanyahu, by refusing to recognize Israel proper.

 

[USAF 2023]

Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”

But you are perpetuating the settlements in the West Bank, and working together with Netanyahu, by refusing to recognize Israel proper.

Didn’t you see his previous post about the “ One State Solution?”
When asked simple questions about Holy Sites he CANNOT answer
Who would enforce this “ One State Solution” that was never recognized and never will be?
No answer; just words

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it. The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian. There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.

Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?

In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.

(REFERENCE)

Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:

• Article 7(1d): Crimes Against Humanity: Deportation or forcible transfer of population;

• Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention: The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;
Conference decided to authorize voluntary transfers by implication, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4).
Found in the "Commentary of 1958."

Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute: For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; ​

(COMMENT)

If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary (Rome Statutes ICC) and International Humanitarian Law (Fourth Geneva Convention) you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."

There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:

◈ Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
Private property cannot be confiscated.

◈ Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.

◈ Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention: Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​

But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute. Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.

But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[watchingfromafar]

Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.

-

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.

-

But G-d told Abraham that He will bless anyone who blesses Abraham and his family. The Jews are Abraham's family. By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out. You will be blessed by G-d.

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.

-

Don”t like it? Move

 

[watchingfromafar]

The Jews are Abraham's family. By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out. You will be blessed by G-d.

God chose them but He could not force them to obey His word

(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

That gathering occurred in 1947ad

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.

Then the Lord looked at his chosen once again to see what his children have done---

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------

UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza

An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

In March 2003
Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.

5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

Google "IDF shooting children"
-

 

[watchingfromafar]

Don”t like it? Move

You don't even live there and never intend to either
-

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Jews are Abraham's family. By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out. You will be blessed by G-d.

God chose them but He could not force them to obey His word

(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

That gathering occurred in 1947ad

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.

Then the Lord looked at his chosen once again to see what his children have done---

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------



UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza

An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

In March 2003
Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.

5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

Google "IDF shooting children"
-

Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"

 

[watchingfromafar]

Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"

If your child was shot in the head by the IDF; what would you do-?

Instead of committing suicide by yourself, maybe take a few Israeli IDF killers with you?

Google "IDF shooting children"

Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq

Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months
Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
https://tinyurl.com/y92tvluh

2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.

The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
https://tinyurl.com/y85ctr7v

12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004

IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
ue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765

An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

There are dozens more children killed in this way, what would you do--?
-

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ watchingfromafar, et al,

There are good inveestmentsinto the future, and there are those investments that come to nothing. Of the 22 Arab League Nations in the Middle East and North African (MENA) Region, ask yourself: → Which of them are more developed → that are scientifically, technologically, and educationally productive than Israel. We are not just making a comparison to the Arab Palestinians, but the entire MENA Region.

Name one just one!

Of the 22 Arab League Nations in the Middle East and North African (MENA) Region, ask yourself: → Which of them are more on the Human Development Index than Israel. Again, this is not just making a comparison to the Arab Palestinians, but the entire MENA Region.

Israel, by the UN assessment, is the leading country in the MENA Region that is postiviely assessing and making some advancements towards responding to inequalities in human development and the demands of its citizenry. As the Arab Spring swept across many of the Regional members, Israel remained stable and uninterrupted by civil disobedience.

​

Maybe it is time to dismantle the contribution and management of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)

Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.

(COMMENT)

You will notice that the US (alone) contributed more than a Billion dollors a year to the Palestinians until the Trump Administration reduced it.

There is a difference between helping the development of the single American Ally in the Region, and that of helping the Regional nations that are anything but an Ally.




Most Respectfully,
R