Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

Dr. Michael Spath interviews Dr. Mazin Qumsiyeh​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine and the Work for Intersectional Liberation: Sandra Tamari​

 

[P F Tinmore]

#StandDownLive: Sandra Tamari​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ep. 43 - Amnesty International "Antisemitic terrorists"​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ep. 44 - Honey I Shot the Kids​

 

[P F Tinmore]

The US-Israeli Occupation of Palestine with Rania Khalek​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Occupation General Discussion
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There are no simple answers to the question of "Occupation, Settlements, or civil and political rights in the territory between Israeli Sovereign Territory and the Jordanian Border.

SOURCE: Occupation: Annexation of a Territory (EU Policy), June 2015 - PE534995 • Executive Summary • pg 7

What we do now is that the propaganda aspect and implication made that the US is somehow an active agent for occupation is totally bogus.

Regulations: Art. 42​

Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
SOURCE: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

The US-Israeli Occupation of Palestine with Rania Khalek ​

(COMMENT)

Rania Khalek (Lebanese-American) only discusses those aspects favorable to the position adopted by the Hostile Arab Palestinians. Ms Khalek overlooks several key important points, including but not limited to:

• The US does not, in any way, shape, or form, meet the definition in the Hague Regulation.​

• In 1988, when the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the Palestinians on the West Bank, abandoned the territory to the Israelis.​

• The PLO had not yet been adopted as the sole representative of the Palestinian People.​

• Para 3, A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974), agree to ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C" • which assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area “C".​

Nor did the discussion address such things as the demonstrated threat by the Hostile Arab Palestinians.https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/hague-conv-iv-1907?activeTab=undefined

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

• In 1988, when the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the Palestinians on the West Bank, abandoned the territory to the Israelis.

This is what you always get wrong. Let's go through the timeline of events.

• In 1924 Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties. The Palestinians were the sovereigns inside their territory that was defined by international borders. Palestine was administered by a Mandate that had no sovereignty or territory.
• In 1925 the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine.
• In November of 1947 The UN General Assembly passed a non binding resolution to partition Palestine. This resolution failed and was never implemented by the Security Council.
• In December of 1947 foreign Zionist gangs began ethnically cleansing Palestine. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the 1948 war. This was the beginning of what the Palestinians call the Nakba.
• In May of 1948 five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine continued during this time. Palestine had no army and was not involved in this conflict.
• The fighting of the 1948 war ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice calls for an end of the fighting without designating winners or losers. Nobody lost the 1948 war.
• The Armistice Agreements drew green lines around and through Palestine to limit troop movements. These lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation. Occupations do not acquire territory or sovereignty. No Palestinian territory or sovereignty was ceded.
• Jordan attempted, but failed, to annex the West Bank. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that move. The rest of the world considered the West Bank to be occupied Palestinian territory as they still do today.
• Palestine has never ceded anything within its international borders.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Arab Palestinian Perspective Need for New Glasses!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have to laugh... OK, let us look at your points.

This is what you always get wrong. Let's go through the timeline of events.

• In 1924 Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties. The Palestinians were the sovereigns inside their territory that was defined by international borders. Palestine was administered by a Mandate that had no sovereignty or territory.

(COMMENT)

A claim not in evidence. The boundaries in play at the time of the Treaty of Lausanne were boundaries established by the Allied Powers. Palestine was defined by the Palestine Order in Council. It was not defined by the Palestinians.

• In 1925 the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The 1925 Citizenship Law was written and implemented by the British for the Territory under the Mandate. Palestine was not a State or a Nation.

• In November of 1947 The UN General Assembly passed a non binding resolution to partition Palestine. This resolution failed and was never implemented by the Security Council.

(COMMENT)

Relatively unimportant. The 29 Nov 1947 Resolution A/RES/181 (II). Was a Recommendation submitted to the General Assembly by the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).

:EXCERPT: PALESTINE COMMISSION ADJOURNS SINE DIE: During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

• In December of 1947 foreign Zionist gangs began ethnically cleansing Palestine. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the 1948 war. This was the beginning of what the Palestinians call the Nakba.

(COMMENT)

Maybe true, by merely a historical point. There is no list of Arab Palestinian Refugees that actually lived in that territory and are still alive. Descendents are not true legal refugees.

• In May of 1948 five Arab armies entered Palestine to engage Israeli forces. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine continued during this time. Palestine had no army and was not involved in this conflict.

(COMMENT)

So, exactly what claim do the Palestinians make in terms of sovereignty? This is NOT a football game where the Arab Palestinians can ask for "down" to be played over. At the end of the day, in 1950s, there was Sovereign Israel. The West Bank was Annex and sovereign to Jordan. The Gaza Strip was an Egyptian Military Governorship. There was no territory sovereign or governed by the Arab Palestinians. In 1959, the Egyptians dissolved the All Palestine Government (APG) which was, by then, in Cairo.

EXCERPT:

​

• The fighting of the 1948 war ended when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice calls for an end of the fighting without designating winners or losers. Nobody lost the 1948 war.

(COMMENT)

Tomato, Tomataato - See the comment supra.

• The Armistice Agreements drew green lines around and through Palestine to limit troop movements. These lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation. Occupations do not acquire territory or sovereignty. No Palestinian territory or sovereignty was ceded.

(COMMENT)

And yet, the Arab Palestinians (Gaza Government and Ramallah Government) with Areas "A" "B" and "C" are what they are. Don't confuse Arab Palestinian propaganda with actual reality.

• Jordan attempted, but failed, to annex the West Bank. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. Only Britain and Pakistan recognized that move. The rest of the world considered the West Bank to be occupied Palestinian territory as they still do today.

(COMMENT)

What advantage does this give the Arab Palestinians? See the reality of Areas "A" "B" and "C."

• Palestine has never ceded anything within its international borders.

(COMMENT)

This is absolutely TRUE! There would be something to discuss IF the Arab Palestinians had territory hand-off. But they did not then, and really, have only the Gaza Strip (which the Israelis don't want) and Area "A."


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

A claim not in evidence. The boundaries in play at the time of the Treaty of Lausanne were boundaries established by the Allied Powers. Palestine was defined by the Palestine Order in Council. It was not defined by the Palestinians.

So? They were treaty borders that remain unchanged today,

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no list of Arab Palestinian Refugees that actually lived in that territory and are still alive. Descendents are not true legal refugees.

Not true. Palestinians are linked to their land by nationality.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What advantage does this give the Arab Palestinians? See the reality of Areas "A" "B" and "C."

Oslo expired and was not a land treaty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is absolutely TRUE! There would be something to discuss IF the Arab Palestinians had territory hand-off. But they did not then, and really, have only the Gaza Strip (which the Israelis don't want) and Area "A."

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Arab Palestinian Perspective Need for New Glasses!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This series of responses are wrong on so many different levels.

So? They were treaty borders that remain unchanged today,

(COMMENT)

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •

◈ Golan Heights Law •

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •

◈ Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) (1993)

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) (1995) •

◈ Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon (2000) •

(Para 3, A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974), agree to ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C" • which assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area “C".

Not true. Palestinians are linked to their land by nationality.

(COMMENT)

NATIONALITY does not set the Sovereignty. Those that in in the territory of the Loiusianna Purchase are Americans. The same for the Spanish in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California.

Oslo expired and was not a land treaty.

(COMMENT)

I think the ICC asked that very question of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Of course he backed off.

If the Oslo Accords expired, then the whole of pre-Oslo West Bank is still subject to Israeli Athority and Mahmoud Abbas is not the PA President, since there would be a territory to be the Pesident of.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

(COMMENT)

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •

◈ Golan Heights Law •

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •

◈ Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) (1993)

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) (1995) •

◈ Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon (2000) •

(Para 3, A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974), agree to ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C" • which assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area “C".

The Palestinians did not cede territory in any of those events.

 

[P F Tinmore]

NATIONALITY does not set the Sovereignty. Those that in in the territory of the Loiusianna Purchase are Americans. The same for the Spanish in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California.

Nationality, people who belong to a defined piece of land, is determined by blood, birth, or residence, not foreign powers.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Arab Palestinian Perspective Need for New Glasses!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab Palestinians have NOT had sovereignty over any territory on over a 1000 years. They did not have any territory to cede or govern. They had no territorial control.

The Palestinians did not cede territory in any of those events.

(COMMENT)

They could not give away a gain of sand to anyone. The Arab Palestinians did not have a defined population or a defined government. Every single agreement before the Oslo Accords was with sovereign nations.

Territoral boundaries before those established by Israel (self-determination) were agreed upon by member nations of the Allied Powers of the 20th Century.

The Arab Palestinians could have had a seat at the table, if they had not rejected the offers to become part of the self-governing process. But they didn't.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Arab Palestinian Perspective Need for New Glasses!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab Palestinians have NOT had sovereignty over any territory on over a 1000 years. They did not have any territory to cede or govern. They had no territorial control.


(COMMENT)

They could not give away a gain of sand to anyone. The Arab Palestinians did not have a defined population or a defined government. Every single agreement before the Oslo Accords was with sovereign nations.

Territoral boundaries before those established by Israel (self-determination) were agreed upon by member nations of the Allied Powers of the 20th Century.

The Arab Palestinians could have had a seat at the table, if they had not rejected the offers to become part of the self-governing process. But they didn't.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice duck.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Transnational Palestine: Migration and the Right to Return before 1948

 

[USAF 2023]

Transnational Palestine: Migration and the Right to Return before 1948

YAWN….