Personal responsibility vs. Public safety net

[DiamondDave]

rightwinger - I'd also applaud making coverage as affordable as possible for the working poor and for the rest of us who are STILL going to be paying all the expenses for those can't afford to contribute at all.

I want these folks to get care, and I want those who can contribute towards that to contribute what they can. And I want to be able to provide care for those who can't afford to contribute as cost-effectively as possible.

You can.. start voluntarily donating to charities that help those in those situations... you have that free will to do that gesture.. nothing is stopping you... of course it is easier to be generous with the money of others, which is what you guys are doing currently...

It feels good to help.. I do it for various charities.. but in no way is 1 singe person owed it by someone else... not like the body or personal well being of a 'needy' person is public domain.. you nor the government has the right to tell you to eat the broccoli over the twinkie, to force you to finish that antibiotic, or to keep you from sticking your dick into the syphilis and herpes infected skank after last call... that is all part of your personal choice in your life.. as is the rest of your upkeep that results from your life choices...

 

[ThePickledPunk]

A public option open to ONLY those that are at the poverty level is fine with me.

Mandating insurance companies MUST enrol ANMYONE who wants is not only fine with me, but a must in my eyes.

Mandate a profit line for the insurers....I am fine with that as well.

And yes, all of the above will increase premiums...I am OK with that.

But to mandate that ALL have insurance? Mandate that you have no choice? In America?

Sorry...I have a serious issue with it.

Hey man- takin the choice out of evryone's hands will benefit a handful of people. its worth it

As sarcastic as that line is....

That is EXACTLY what the democratic leadership is saying......people refuse to see it though.

everybody sees it, buddy. And lefties like Nodog and rightwinger agree with it.

 

[Ravi]

I slipped a disc in my back and required a decompression and partial discectomy. My surgery took about fifteen minutes to complete.

So in reality this wasn't a medical emergency. How did you ever convince the hospital that it was?

The doctors determined it was an emergency when I still could not uncurl from a fetal position after three shots of morphine. I did not need to convince anyone- it was apparent when I enterd the emergency room.

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I firmly believe that many of us here can (and in some cases have) found a lot of common ground on the issues surrounding healthcare reform even though we represent a broad spectrum of political ideologies.

I think the biggest problem the politicians are facing in enacting some common-sense reforms is the hyper-partisan political posturing, incendiary and dishonest rhetoric, and a big dose of party-before-country folks who value a "win" more than what is actually the best deal for our country. It is a problem and a climate that they have created themselves to benefit themselves - NOT the American people.

It's truly sad to me to see those who have been sucked into that mentality. They are more wedded to their rhetoric than to their country and to their own self-interest. It's truly an interesting phenomena - sad, but really interesting to see in action.

 

[DiamondDave]

I firmly believe that many of us here can (and in some cases have) found a lot of common ground on the issues surrounding healthcare reform even though we represent a broad spectrum of political ideologies.

I think the biggest problem the politicians are facing in enacting some common-sense reforms is the hyper-partisan political posturing, incendiary and dishonest rhetoric, and a big dose of party-before-country folks who value a "win" more than what is actually the best deal for our country. It is a problem and a climate that they have created themselves to benefit themselves - NOT the American people.

I don't care if it is a Republican or a Democrat or a Conservative, or a Libertarian, or a Green Party person or a goddamn Neptunian that gets the proposal to get the system right and back to personal responsibility over this entitlement mantra.. it is not about a win or a party... it is about getting rid of this whole 'owed' crap and selective equal treatment by our government trying to play Robin Hood for votes

 

[Oldandtired]

I firmly believe that many of us here can (and in some cases have) found a lot of common ground on the issues surrounding healthcare reform even though we represent a broad spectrum of political ideologies.

I think the biggest problem the politicians are facing in enacting some common-sense reforms is the hyper-partisan political posturing, incendiary and dishonest rhetoric, and a big dose of party-before-country folks who value a "win" more than what is actually the best deal for our country. It is a problem and a climate that they have created themselves to benefit themselves - NOT the American people.

I agree.
There are many solutions that would satisfy most Americans.
Unfortunately, the leadership is more wrapped up in satisfying their careers.
Pelosi wants a legacy.....and this is it.
Reid wants a legacy...and this is it.
Boehner wants a legacy...and fighting this, is it.
I can go on........

 

[nodoginnafight]

So in reality this wasn't a medical emergency. How did you ever convince the hospital that it was?

The doctors determined it was an emergency when I still could not uncurl from a fetal position after three shots of morphine. I did not need to convince anyone- it was apparent when I enterd the emergency room.

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

His story has changed MANY times since the first telling. He soon realized his first version didn't support his premise very well so he's changed it around quite a bit. But he still hasn't supported his position very well.
So what?
A casualty of the "please-give-me-my-talking-point-so-I'll-know-what-to-think" crowd.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I firmly believe that many of us here can (and in some cases have) found a lot of common ground on the issues surrounding healthcare reform even though we represent a broad spectrum of political ideologies.

I think the biggest problem the politicians are facing in enacting some common-sense reforms is the hyper-partisan political posturing, incendiary and dishonest rhetoric, and a big dose of party-before-country folks who value a "win" more than what is actually the best deal for our country. It is a problem and a climate that they have created themselves to benefit themselves - NOT the American people.

I agree.
There are many solutions that would satisfy most Americans.
Unfortunately, the leadership is more wrapped up in satisfying their careers.
Pelosi wants a legacy.....and this is it.
Reid wants a legacy...and this is it.
Boehner wants a legacy...and fighting this, is it.
I can go on........

yes, so could I
Palin craves the limelight (but not actual responsibility)....
Bohner and Grassley want to scare people into voting for them .....
Bachman is just plain looney .....

Yes, there is precisious little to be proud of on EITHER side of the aisle on this one ...

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Sorry to see that about your Grandmother, was she in New York like yourself?

No, she was in Tennessee for most of her illness. They tried to deny her a permanent feeding tube to be implanted when she could no longer swallow. Said it was unnecessary. It was unbelievable.

 

[Oldandtired]

I firmly believe that many of us here can (and in some cases have) found a lot of common ground on the issues surrounding healthcare reform even though we represent a broad spectrum of political ideologies.

I think the biggest problem the politicians are facing in enacting some common-sense reforms is the hyper-partisan political posturing, incendiary and dishonest rhetoric, and a big dose of party-before-country folks who value a "win" more than what is actually the best deal for our country. It is a problem and a climate that they have created themselves to benefit themselves - NOT the American people.

I agree.
There are many solutions that would satisfy most Americans.
Unfortunately, the leadership is more wrapped up in satisfying their careers.
Pelosi wants a legacy.....and this is it.
Reid wants a legacy...and this is it.
Boehner wants a legacy...and fighting this, is it.
I can go on........

yes, so could I
Palin craves the limelight (but not actual responsibility)....
Bohner and Grassley want to scare people into voting for them .....
Bachman is just plain looney .....

Yes, there is precisious little to be proud of on EITHER side of the aisle on this one ...

Bachman is looney? Why? Becuase she speaks her mind for the people?
Still dont see why people call her nuts...she is articualte and very much strong on her convictions.
I do not call Pelosi a nut...I simply disagree with her convictions.....but to question her sanity becuause she believes something different than I?
Irresponsible behavior in America.....per my personal opinion.

You know...maybe if people were not concerned about how others viewed them, they would have taken action on that Hasan guy months ago?

It is remarks like yours...and MANY members of the media that give others reason to keep their mouths shut...in a country that began because people REFUSED to keep their mouths shut.

Just sayin'

 

[ThePickledPunk]

So in reality this wasn't a medical emergency. How did you ever convince the hospital that it was?

The doctors determined it was an emergency when I still could not uncurl from a fetal position after three shots of morphine. I did not need to convince anyone- it was apparent when I enterd the emergency room.

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

I couldn't give a fat rats ass what you believe, fishmonger. And you are right surgery was the last that was tried. Bed rest and duramed did not do it. And my weight loss and sleep deprivation were leading me into dangerous territory.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

The doctors determined it was an emergency when I still could not uncurl from a fetal position after three shots of morphine. I did not need to convince anyone- it was apparent when I enterd the emergency room.

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

His story has changed MANY times since the first telling. He soon realized his first version didn't support his premise very well so he's changed it around quite a bit. But he still hasn't supported his position very well.
So what?
A casualty of the "please-give-me-my-talking-point-so-I'll-know-what-to-think" crowd.

It has never changed, fishmonger.

 

[Ravi]

The doctors determined it was an emergency when I still could not uncurl from a fetal position after three shots of morphine. I did not need to convince anyone- it was apparent when I enterd the emergency room.

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

I couldn't give a fat rats ass what you believe, fishmonger. And you are right surgery was the last that was tried. Bed rest and duramed did not do it. And my weight loss and sleep deprivation were leading me into dangerous territory.

So it wasn't an emergency, it was a pre-existing condition that you didn't take care of until you milked the system into paying a large portion of your medical costs. And now you have a policy with 100% coverage.

Yep, you're a fraud.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I agree.
There are many solutions that would satisfy most Americans.
Unfortunately, the leadership is more wrapped up in satisfying their careers.
Pelosi wants a legacy.....and this is it.
Reid wants a legacy...and this is it.
Boehner wants a legacy...and fighting this, is it.
I can go on........

yes, so could I
Palin craves the limelight (but not actual responsibility)....
Bohner and Grassley want to scare people into voting for them .....
Bachman is just plain looney .....

Yes, there is precisious little to be proud of on EITHER side of the aisle on this one ...

Bachman is looney? Why? Becuase she speaks her mind for the people?
Still dont see why people call her nuts...she is articualte and very much strong on her convictions.
I do not call Pelosi a nut...I simply disagree with her convictions.....but to question her sanity becuause she believes something different than I?
Irresponsible behavior in America.....per my personal opinion.

You know...maybe if people were not concerned about how others viewed them, they would have taken action on that Hasan guy months ago?

It is remarks like yours...and MANY members of the media that give others reason to keep their mouths shut...in a country that began because people REFUSED to keep their mouths shut.

Just sayin'

My distinct apologies to Bachman and to any who took offense

she does and says crazy things - like hiding in the bushes at gay awareness events, like saying there is a deal signed to give Iran half of Iraq, ... her less than sane sounding statements and actions are numerous.
But no, I have no idea of her actual mental state and apologize for speculating ...

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Well...I simply don't believe you. Surgery is usually the last thing they do for a slipped disc. I also don't believe that you now have 100% coverage on your current policy.

I couldn't give a fat rats ass what you believe, fishmonger. And you are right surgery was the last that was tried. Bed rest and duramed did not do it. And my weight loss and sleep deprivation were leading me into dangerous territory.

So it wasn't an emergency, it was a pre-existing condition that you didn't take care of until you milked the system into paying a large portion of your medical costs. And now you have a policy with 100% coverage.

Yep, you're a fraud.

nope- it was an emergency, bullqueen.

 

[Oldandtired]

yes, so could I
Palin craves the limelight (but not actual responsibility)....
Bohner and Grassley want to scare people into voting for them .....
Bachman is just plain looney .....

Yes, there is precisious little to be proud of on EITHER side of the aisle on this one ...

Bachman is looney? Why? Becuase she speaks her mind for the people?
Still dont see why people call her nuts...she is articualte and very much strong on her convictions.
I do not call Pelosi a nut...I simply disagree with her convictions.....but to question her sanity becuause she believes something different than I?
Irresponsible behavior in America.....per my personal opinion.

You know...maybe if people were not concerned about how others viewed them, they would have taken action on that Hasan guy months ago?

It is remarks like yours...and MANY members of the media that give others reason to keep their mouths shut...in a country that began because people REFUSED to keep their mouths shut.

Just sayin'

My distinct apologies to Bachman and to any who took offense

she does and says crazy things - like hiding in the bushes at gay awareness events, like saying there is a deal signed to give Iran half of Iraq, ... her less than sane sounding statements and actions are numerous.
But no, I have no idea of her actual mental state and apologize for speculating ...

You mean like saying that the sitting President is a liar; telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war; calling our marines murderers and rapists; calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks; hiding 90K in a freezer; conveniently not paying taxes when owed; befriending those that have had radical and violent pasts; calling those that protest UNAMERICAN; calling those that protest dengerous mobs...

You mean like that?

And I love what you attach yourself to...Bachman hiding in the bushes at a gay rights ralley....sure....that is exactly what she did.

Sorry....you sounded a bit reasonable today....did not realize you are the same talking points, left wing blog reading ideological putz you have always been

 

[nodoginnafight]

You mean like saying that the sitting President is a liar; telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war; calling our marines murderers and rapists; calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks; hiding 90K in a freezer; conveniently not paying taxes when owed; befriending those that have had radical and violent pasts; calling those that protest UNAMERICAN; calling those that protest dengerous mobs...

You mean like that?

I wasn't aware that she did any of those things - but on a few of those: "telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war" and "calling our marines murderers and rapists" and "calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks" sounds pretty crazy to me - but I'm not supposed to say that - I agree that the correct way to say it is that they do not reflect my own perception of reality.

But folks should be free to call the sitting president a liar if they want to.
Hiding 90K in a freezer - to each his or her own I guess, but I prefer banks.
Not paying taxes - I'm for paying what you owe
Briefing those with radical, violent pasts - depends
Calling those people who protest unAmerican - well a lot of protesters aren't Americans so .....
and I don't know what dengrous means so I can't comment on that one - but mho is that all protests and all protesters are not created equal - I think when they start calling for violence against others they are getting out of hand.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Bachman is looney? Why? Becuase she speaks her mind for the people?
Still dont see why people call her nuts...she is articualte and very much strong on her convictions.
I do not call Pelosi a nut...I simply disagree with her convictions.....but to question her sanity becuause she believes something different than I?
Irresponsible behavior in America.....per my personal opinion.

You know...maybe if people were not concerned about how others viewed them, they would have taken action on that Hasan guy months ago?

It is remarks like yours...and MANY members of the media that give others reason to keep their mouths shut...in a country that began because people REFUSED to keep their mouths shut.

Just sayin'

My distinct apologies to Bachman and to any who took offense

she does and says crazy things - like hiding in the bushes at gay awareness events, like saying there is a deal signed to give Iran half of Iraq, ... her less than sane sounding statements and actions are numerous.
But no, I have no idea of her actual mental state and apologize for speculating ...

You mean like saying that the sitting President is a liar; telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war; calling our marines murderers and rapists; calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks; hiding 90K in a freezer; conveniently not paying taxes when owed; befriending those that have had radical and violent pasts; calling those that protest UNAMERICAN; calling those that protest dengerous mobs...

You mean like that?

And I love what you attach yourself to...Bachman hiding in the bushes at a gay rights ralley....sure....that is exactly what she did.

Sorry....you sounded a bit reasonable today....did not realize you are the same talking points, left wing blog reading ideological putz you have always been

Oh you mean as long as I agree with you I'm "reasonable"
But as soon as I express an opinion different to yours - it just turns right to name-calling and crap.

Sorry - I call BS when I see it - WHEREVER I see it - my BS radar is not limited to one side of the aisle.

 

[Oldandtired]

You mean like saying that the sitting President is a liar; telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war; calling our marines murderers and rapists; calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks; hiding 90K in a freezer; conveniently not paying taxes when owed; befriending those that have had radical and violent pasts; calling those that protest UNAMERICAN; calling those that protest dengerous mobs...

You mean like that?

I wasn't aware that she did any of those things - but on a few of those: "telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war" and "calling our marines murderers and rapists" and "calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks" sounds pretty crazy to me - but I'm not supposed to say that - I agree that the correct way to say it is that they do not reflect my own perception of reality.

But folks should be free to call the sitting president a liar if they want to.
Hiding 90K in a freezer - to each his or her own I guess, but I prefer banks.
Not paying taxes - I'm for paying what you owe
Briefing those with radical, violent pasts - depends
Calling those people who protest unAmerican - well a lot of protesters aren't Americans so .....
and I don't know what dengrous means so I can't comment on that one - but mho is that all protests and all protesters are not created equal - I think when they start calling for violence against others they are getting out of hand.

So either you are naive and not aware that I was referring to the actions of democratice memebers of congress...or you are a deflector.

And as for the typo.....lost my fucking hand in combat protecting your sorry ass...and two fingers on the other hand make it difficult to type......so sorry for the "dengerous" typo.

 

[nodoginnafight]

You mean like saying that the sitting President is a liar; telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war; calling our marines murderers and rapists; calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks; hiding 90K in a freezer; conveniently not paying taxes when owed; befriending those that have had radical and violent pasts; calling those that protest UNAMERICAN; calling those that protest dengerous mobs...

You mean like that?

I wasn't aware that she did any of those things - but on a few of those: "telling the world while at a press podium that America lost the war" and "calling our marines murderers and rapists" and "calling those in Penssylvania racists and rednecks" sounds pretty crazy to me - but I'm not supposed to say that - I agree that the correct way to say it is that they do not reflect my own perception of reality.

But folks should be free to call the sitting president a liar if they want to.
Hiding 90K in a freezer - to each his or her own I guess, but I prefer banks.
Not paying taxes - I'm for paying what you owe
Briefing those with radical, violent pasts - depends
Calling those people who protest unAmerican - well a lot of protesters aren't Americans so .....
and I don't know what dengrous means so I can't comment on that one - but mho is that all protests and all protesters are not created equal - I think when they start calling for violence against others they are getting out of hand.

So either you are naive and not aware that I was referring to the actions of democratice memebers of congress...or you are a deflector.

And as for the typo.....lost my fucking hand in combat protecting your sorry ass...and two fingers on the other hand make it difficult to type......so sorry for the "dengerous" typo.

Not deriding the typo - just honestly didn't know the word and didn't realize it was a typo
I protected your right to snarl and snap and hurl insults at anyone you don't agree with .... your welcome.

And I'm not deflecting - I was commenting on the positions voiced. You see it doesn't matter to me WHO SAID THEM or what side of the aisle they sit on - If I agree, I agree and if I disagree, I disagree.

Hyper-partisan zealots from BOTH extremes like to jump my case - so what? Just confirms to me that I'm doing something right.