Perspective of a 64 year construction worker

[MarathonMike]

I have a guy that I have hired over the years to do work and upgrades on my house. Even though he has hard the hardest life you can imagine and still works 6 days a week he never quits and has a great attitude. This is what he told me today:

"The last 5 years, I've seen a total change in the type of guy that I hire. Used to be they had their own trucks their own tools and I wouldn't have to ride their ass. Today I got guys I have to pick up because they don't have a car, I take em to 7-11 to get em a drink because they're so dried out from drinkin the night before. The damn drink is dry by the time we get to the job. They do the minimum, and I gotta check their work constantly. It sucks I'm getting too old for this. These are young guys man half my age. They've just given up. Just a few years ago these kind of guys were the exception, now it's all I can find."

Economic recovery? Not so much if you talk to someone who lives it every day.

 

[MarathonMike]

Sorry about the title should be 64 year old construction worker.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nothing new about this.

Back in the 80s, I had employees who were just plain lazy. Yeah, I know you want to blame Obama for people who are too lazy to work but that's just more of the Professional Victim crap from RWNJs.

Grow up. Quit whining. Take responsibility for your own life.

 

[MarathonMike]

Nothing new about this.

Back in the 80s, I had employees who were just plain lazy. Yeah, I know you want to blame Obama for people who are too lazy to work but that's just more of the Professional Victim crap from RWNJs.

Grow up. Quit whining. Take responsibility for your own life.

Nice diversionary tactic, but he was there during the 80s too. This is new and it's happened in the last few years.

 

[MarathonMike]

Lazy workers in the 80s? Everyone I knew in the 80s was kicking ass whether you were in construction or professional. You must have been in San Francisco dealing with aging flower children.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Grow up, quit whining, take responsibility for your own life. Sounds like luddy is finally coming over to the conservative message. That's what we have been saying for years.

But what Mike is projecting is the fact that Obama and company have made victimization cool. It's not your fault. You didn't make that. It's not fair. There is a war against you. The greedy one percent. You don't need to try, you need to get what is owed you. White privilege keeps you down. There is no shame anymore in accepting food stamps, welfare, or demanding free college when you don't need it or you are able bodied.

My experience and my wife's is the same. Nobody believes that they have to pay their dues to get ahead anymore. The reason that all these Mexicans are being hired is not just because they are cheaper but because they work hard. Many young Americans don't even feel a responsibility to show up every day for work. Anyone today who is worth their salt is their own boss. Booze, drugs, and pills are more widespread than is commonly assumed. The bottom line is that Obama has peeled the work ethic off of the American identity and is proud of it.

 

[georgephillip]

I have a guy that I have hired over the years to do work and upgrades on my house. Even though he has hard the hardest life you can imagine and still works 6 days a week he never quits and has a great attitude. This is what he told me today:

"The last 5 years, I've seen a total change in the type of guy that I hire. Used to be they had their own trucks their own tools and I wouldn't have to ride their ass. Today I got guys I have to pick up because they don't have a car, I take em to 7-11 to get em a drink because they're so dried out from drinkin the night before. The damn drink is dry by the time we get to the job. They do the minimum, and I gotta check their work constantly. It sucks I'm getting too old for this. These are young guys man half my age. They've just given up. Just a few years ago these kind of guys were the exception, now it's all I can find."

Economic recovery? Not so much if you talk to someone who lives it every day.

The "real" economy of production and consumption, based on the employment of labor, tangible production, and earned income, has been sacrificed on the altar of "free" markets guaranteeing more and more wealth will consolidate into fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation.

"12. The financial sector’s drive to increase its political power has a fatal fiscal dimension: Whatever economic rent that remains untaxed is 'free' to be pledged to the banks as interest.

"Banks therefore advocate un-taxing real estate, natural resource rent and monopoly price gouging.

"This is the opposite from the classical policy of taxing and de-privatizing economic rent and asset-price ('capital') gains.

"Classical value and price theory demonstrates that a rent tax does not increase prices, but is paid out of rent, absorbing the excess of price over intrinsic cost-value.

"That was the policy aim of free market economists from the Physiocrats and Adam Smith through John Stuart Mill and the Progressive Era.

"By the late 19th century it was called socialism, which originally meant freeing markets from the political legacy of feudal privileges to enclose the Commons and privatized public infrastructure."

http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf(p.xxiii)
The private sector is no longer capable of providing enough jobs for those who need one, and we may be approaching the point where technology will free much of humanity from the need to work at all, meaning subsistence will no longer depend on having a job.

 

[Iceweasel]

The private sector is no longer capable of providing enough jobs for those who need one, and we may be approaching the point where technology will free much of humanity from the need to work at all, meaning subsistence will no longer depend on having a job.

That just stupid. Of course the private sector can provide the jobs. The private sector is being held back with regulations and expenses. There's quite a lot of bullshit involved in just a one man operation. A crew is a nightmare, you pretty much need an accountant on board. And a lawyer.

The fact is you can't build a house from your desk. You can't fix a car, plumb a home, build an addition, roof, paint or do anything from you remote location. What we have seen is a deprecation in the quality of workers across the board. Ask any contractor and you'll get a similar story. Most kids aren't taught to work, they sit on their asses and play games, eat junk and socialize online. Everything is provided for them and they are taught from an early age that they are victims and need government to right the wrong.

Well, most kids anyway. When you find an ambitious young man it's the exception rather than the rule. Some kids are still being raised right and many go on the create their own jobs. That's what drones like you don't get. You are too focused on blaming the private sector and freedom to see the possibilities under your nose.

 

[Skull Pilot]

IMO the trades tend to attract the dregs these days because we have denigrated the work as something only HS dropouts and people who don't go to college do because they can't do anything else

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the occupations involved but the younger generations have bought this shit hook line and sinker and would rather get a worthless degree, go into debt and work as a barrista than learn a trade that in many cases has the potential of earning them a better salary than the average idiot with a BS will ever make

 

[strollingbones]

there is no apprentice system in construction anymore.....younger people do not want to commit to what it takes to get ahead...learning skills and buying tools...grumpy works with 2 other men....all motivated to work and they are very careful about bringing in anyone who will upset the mix....the youngest being 36...the oldest being grumpy at 61 a year and one day lol.....he is having a hard time with 62....

it is a trend that has been coming since the mexicans hit town.....they under cut wages...you need a decent wage to buy tools....we have seen the pick them up and haul their asses to work types....no one has much tolerance for the late night calls...can you bail me out.....and the answer is always fuck no....

at one time....a young guy would come on the job and start out doing trash jobs...lots of digging....lots of nasty shit...then one day he would show up with a tool belt and a hammer and declare the was a carpenters helper now....he would get laughed at....and taken under some ones wing.....and given a small bump in pay....after all he is a devoted helper now... a few months later....he shows up with skill saw....older carpenters share their secrets and in a few years...he is a carpenter...not a helper..takes time and people willing to work with and do the work....now days they think you are lucky if they just show up ..borrow tools ..fuck up tools without offering to repair or replace....or worse steal tools

 

[strollingbones]

we have a good life eating off the construction table....it is feast or famine...that is hard on younger people....and he has the skills ...education is needed even in the trades....and it is always surprising to be talking to someone in the trades and find they left professional jobs or have degrees...and i have seen the other extreme....lazy trash..the spot and steal club

 

[Iceweasel]

there is no apprentice system in construction anymore.....younger people do not want to commit to what it takes to get ahead...learning skills and buying tools...

Few people would expect a laborer to provide tools. That's how you start out in the trades unless someone takes you in under your wing. I was a plumber's helper then quickly went on to plumb whole homes with copper supply by myself. Didn't get payed as a plumber but could have pursued it.

When you fall into one of the fields you would start with the tools, normally you want your own tools by that point, who wouldn't? If a contractor is wanting a hire but wants you to supply all the tools he may be looking for a sub and 1099 him instead of a salary. Lots of that going around, and not legal.

 

[strollingbones]

yes we do the 1099 and have insurance ....laborers just need to bring strong backs ...shovels provided...it is when they buy the first tool that they will be taken a wee bit more seriously

 

[Iceweasel]

yes we do the 1099 and have insurance ....laborers just need to bring strong backs ...shovels provided...it is when they buy the first tool that they will be taken a wee bit more seriously

That's illegal. You are using contractors as employees. There are many laws for employees, FICA, workman's comp, insurance, healthcare, etc. Subcontractors have to handle all of their expenses, you are circumnavigating around the laws by making employees pick up the expense. If y'all get audited it will not be pretty.

 

[guno]

there is no apprentice system in construction anymore.....younger people do not want to commit to what it takes to get ahead...learning skills and buying tools...grumpy works with 2 other men....all motivated to work and they are very careful about bringing in anyone who will upset the mix....the youngest being 36...the oldest being grumpy at 61 a year and one day lol.....he is having a hard time with 62....

it is a trend that has been coming since the mexicans hit town.....they under cut wages...you need a decent wage to buy tools....we have seen the pick them up and haul their asses to work types....no one has much tolerance for the late night calls...can you bail me out.....and the answer is always fuck no....

at one time....a young guy would come on the job and start out doing trash jobs...lots of digging....lots of nasty shit...then one day he would show up with a tool belt and a hammer and declare the was a carpenters helper now....he would get laughed at....and taken under some ones wing.....and given a small bump in pay....after all he is a devoted helper now... a few months later....he shows up with skill saw....older carpenters share their secrets and in a few years...he is a carpenter...not a helper..takes time and people willing to work with and do the work....now days they think you are lucky if they just show up ..borrow tools ..fuck up tools without offering to repair or replace....or worse steal tools

The unions used to run the apprenticeship programs and schools some still do in the electrical trades and plumbing trades and some construction trades , this is primarily in the northeast and the Midwest and west coast

Building Trades Craft Unions Offer Apprenticeship Programs - Organized Labor

Registered Apprenticeships

 

[strollingbones]

yes we do the 1099 and have insurance ....laborers just need to bring strong backs ...shovels provided...it is when they buy the first tool that they will be taken a wee bit more seriously

That's illegal. You are using contractors as employees. There are many laws for employees, FICA, workman's comp, insurance, healthcare, etc. Subcontractors have to handle all of their expenses, you are circumnavigating around the laws by making employees pick up the expense. If y'all get audited it will not be pretty.

since we receive the mother fucking 1099s and file them on our taxes......he is a sub...he sets his own work hours....clients are provided...he is free to turn down any job he doesnt want and free to take any time off needed when i need him.....i am pretty sure we know all the ins and outs of this after all these years....

subbing is now the trend in construction.....

 

[Iceweasel]

yes we do the 1099 and have insurance ....laborers just need to bring strong backs ...shovels provided...it is when they buy the first tool that they will be taken a wee bit more seriously

That's illegal. You are using contractors as employees. There are many laws for employees, FICA, workman's comp, insurance, healthcare, etc. Subcontractors have to handle all of their expenses, you are circumnavigating around the laws by making employees pick up the expense. If y'all get audited it will not be pretty.

since we receive the mother fucking 1099s and file them on our taxes......he is a sub...he sets his own work hours....clients are provided...he is free to turn down any job he doesnt want and free to take any time off needed when i need him.....i am pretty sure we know all the ins and outs of this after all these years....

subbing is now the trend in construction.....

I'm pretty sure you're shitting us. Like most libs, laws are for others. You said you had 1099s and insurance. Subcontractors have to have their own insurance. Subcontractors bid on jobs, they set the price, not the customer (you). Subbing is the trend because liberals have so fucked us that it's often too expensive to hire these days.

What happens a lot though, is like I said, people who want employees but expect them to cover those costs and file 1099 forms with the IRS. All it takes is for one guy to get hurt on the job and he'll likely roll over. If he's being directed on what to do, he's an employee according to Uncle Sam.

 

[strollingbones]

lets see he gives estimates to clients.....he gets 1099 from client....we are not the damn customer lol you are really a joke...thinking there are no liberal subcontracts....matter of face workers comp was raised by 250 this year....it covers no one....so before you start calling me a liar....think about it.

 

[strollingbones]

i dont know who its done out west but here there are a lot of liberals in the trades

 

[Agit8r]

What I hear:
"There used to be dime-a-dozen guys I could hire, but now it's slim pickings. Where's the economic recovery?"