Pete Rose Formally Petitions MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred for Reinstatement

[Nutz]

A manager betting on games challenges the integrity of the game and MLB. Yeah...steroids, drugs and so on...they stain the game...but it does not threaten the integrity like gambling...an action that can affect the outcome of a game or a season...or even the odds of a game. Rose had insider knowledge and the ability to cheat for profit (yes, I know - he supposedly never bet against the Reds, but honestly...I think he did and that is why the punishment is so harsh). Mr. Hustle was a focused man who did everything to win...don't you think that quality would extend to gambling?

When he dies, reinstate him, admit him to the Hall of Fame...until then, let him suffer.

Are you shittin' me?
Steroids don't affect the outcome of a game?
Ever seen a baseball game?

And btw nobody, including MLB, claimed he ever bet against his own team. Your dreaming up fantasies doesn't make them retroactive events.

Sterr

What the fuck is your problem, shitstain? You've done nothing but attack me because I dare to think through a position you didn't think of. I've got as much right to an opinion as you, so EAT ME.

The numbers are the fucking numbers. Nothing changes them. And if the HoF doesn't recognize them, while it recognizes a ton of other numbers including from other far-less-than-pillars-of-society, then it's not a Hall of Fame, it's a hypocritical wank museum for the business of baseball and not the sport.

Keep him banned from association with MLB for the rest of his life, I don't care. But don't tell me he didn't put up the numbers he did, because that's flat out dishonest.

Now go fuck yourself in the ass with Pete Rose's bat from 1963. A broken one.

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

No fair I just said you can't say it's apples to oranges! OK in all seriousness gambling on the sport may not be equivalent to throwing ballgames, but it's in the same fucking ballpark, no pun intended. No one is denying he had great stats, but his contributions to the game were diminished by his transgressions.

See, that's what I just said -- you think they're related. When the ball is hit, when the base is reached, when the run is scored ---- that's it. It's history. Done. Forever. Doesn't matter what you do later -- you did in the past what you did in the past.

Now if it was found that that ball was hit with the aid of some artificial substance without which it wouldn't have cleared the fence -- NOW you have a case to say the hit is tainted. NOW you can make a case that the guy doesn't belong in the Hall because his numbers aren't real.

Pete Rose's numbers are real. He got them because he worked for them. Hard.

Everything a player/manager does gets calculated before deciding whether or not he makes it, not just the good stuff. Do you understand how harmful it is was Rose was doing to the sport of baseball? And it doesn't even matter to you that after all these years he hasn't come clean?

Exactly...baseball is more than throw a pitch and see f the hitter can get a base hit. Do you keep a lefty in against a lefty? Pinch run, pitch hit...move the infeld back when their is a ground ball hitter up.... Oh, and what about spreads....take out a starter and play a 2nd stringer because the spread has been met.

Rose betting on MLB and the Reds tarnished the integrity of the game and MLB.

 

[Pogo]

Wrong. It has nothing to do with that time in 1976 he stretched a single into a double or got the run home with a hit in 1969. Those are facts. They don't change. They're done and nothing undoes them.

A Hall of Fame is either a tribute to outstanding performance in the field --- or it isn't. And if the latter, that's not a Hall of Fame. You can't put up a building, say "these are the best that ever played the game" --- and then omit one of the very best to play the game.

Umm, dickhead, you just don't get it. Anyone that does that kind of damage to the game doesn't deserve to be recognized by MLB, much less honored. It's a simple concept to understand, but your name is Pogo. Gambling on the game as a skipper is much more egregious than using steroids, and there are steroid users who will never get it. Arod will never get in and his numbers are probably going to be more impressive than Rose's when it's all said and done.

What the fuck is your problem, shitstain? You've done nothing but attack me because I dare to think through a position you didn't think of. I've got as much right to an opinion as you, so EAT ME.

The numbers are the fucking numbers. Nothing changes them. And if the HoF doesn't recognize them, while it recognizes a ton of other numbers including from other far-less-than-pillars-of-society, then it's not a Hall of Fame, it's a hypocritical wank museum for the business of baseball and not the sport.

Keep him banned from association with MLB for the rest of his life, I don't care. But don't tell me he didn't put up the numbers he did, because that's flat out dishonest.

Now go fuck yourself in the ass with Pete Rose's bat from 1963. A broken one.

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody saay it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.
Methinks the business would do well to realize that it serves the Game -- not the other way around.

 

[Rocko]

A manager betting on games challenges the integrity of the game and MLB. Yeah...steroids, drugs and so on...they stain the game...but it does not threaten the integrity like gambling...an action that can affect the outcome of a game or a season...or even the odds of a game. Rose had insider knowledge and the ability to cheat for profit (yes, I know - he supposedly never bet against the Reds, but honestly...I think he did and that is why the punishment is so harsh). Mr. Hustle was a focused man who did everything to win...don't you think that quality would extend to gambling?

When he dies, reinstate him, admit him to the Hall of Fame...until then, let him suffer.

Are you shittin' me?
Steroids don't affect the outcome of a game?
Ever seen a baseball game?

Not saying that steroids don't benefit the individual player...they get caught, they get punished for drug abuse. It's not like entire teams are taking steroids at the direction of the club...AND ON TOP OF THAT...cold medicine can make one test positive for steroids. And, even with steroids...if you can't already hit, throw or run, they aren't going to help you at all.

And btw nobody, including MLB, claimed he ever bet against his own team. Your dreaming up fantasies doesn't make them retroactive events.

Of course that is what they claimed. It is irrelevant either way....it is just common sense and basic ethics NOT to bet on your team...or bet on games within the organization in which you play.

Your argument consists of "it's probably true because I want it to be true". That's a complete fallacious failure.
If there were such evidence, MLB would have it.

And it's not plausible anyway for anyone who ever saw Rose play. There was no more intense competitor. He's probably not even capable of throwing a game.

I saw Rose play...he was the man....certainly one of my favorites growing up. His numbers are true...but his actions forfeited his right to contemporary praise. When he dies, it will be great to look back at all of his accomplishments and see him in the HOF...I will never forget him bowling over the catcher in an All-Star game are running full speed to first after a walk. I can see his hunched down stance and his compact swing right now.

As for whether or not he bet against the Reds...irrelevant. He bet on them and other MLB teams. No excuse.

MLB hasn't a

A manager betting on games challenges the integrity of the game and MLB. Yeah...steroids, drugs and so on...they stain the game...but it does not threaten the integrity like gambling...an action that can affect the outcome of a game or a season...or even the odds of a game. Rose had insider knowledge and the ability to cheat for profit (yes, I know - he supposedly never bet against the Reds, but honestly...I think he did and that is why the punishment is so harsh). Mr. Hustle was a focused man who did everything to win...don't you think that quality would extend to gambling?

When he dies, reinstate him, admit him to the Hall of Fame...until then, let him suffer.

Are you shittin' me?
Steroids don't affect the outcome of a game?
Ever seen a baseball game?

Not saying that steroids don't benefit the individual player...they get caught, they get punished for drug abuse.

They do NOW, yeah. After a lot of pressure and bad publicity. But I don't see Mark McGwire banned from baseball, do you?

It's not like entire teams are taking steroids at the direction of the club...AND ON TOP OF THAT...cold medicine can make one test positive for steroids. And, even with steroids...if you can't already hit, throw or run, they aren't going to help you at all.

And btw nobody, including MLB, claimed he ever bet against his own team. Your dreaming up fantasies doesn't make them retroactive events.

Of course that is what they claimed. It is irrelevant either way....it is just common sense and basic ethics NOT to bet on your team...or bet on games within the organization in which you play.

Your argument consists of "it's probably true because I want it to be true". That's a complete fallacious failure.
If there were such evidence, MLB would have it.

And it's not plausible anyway for anyone who ever saw Rose play. There was no more intense competitor. He's probably not even capable of throwing a game.

You'd be surprised what a gambling addiction could make someone do. Gun to my head he bet against the Reds at some point.

 

[Nutz]

Umm, dickhead, you just don't get it. Anyone that does that kind of damage to the game doesn't deserve to be recognized by MLB, much less honored. It's a simple concept to understand, but your name is Pogo. Gambling on the game as a skipper is much more egregious than using steroids, and there are steroid users who will never get it. Arod will never get in and his numbers are probably going to be more impressive than Rose's when it's all said and done.

What the fuck is your problem, shitstain? You've done nothing but attack me because I dare to think through a position you didn't think of. I've got as much right to an opinion as you, so EAT ME.

The numbers are the fucking numbers. Nothing changes them. And if the HoF doesn't recognize them, while it recognizes a ton of other numbers including from other far-less-than-pillars-of-society, then it's not a Hall of Fame, it's a hypocritical wank museum for the business of baseball and not the sport.

Keep him banned from association with MLB for the rest of his life, I don't care. But don't tell me he didn't put up the numbers he did, because that's flat out dishonest.

Now go fuck yourself in the ass with Pete Rose's bat from 1963. A broken one.

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

 

[Rocko]

What the fuck is your problem, shitstain? You've done nothing but attack me because I dare to think through a position you didn't think of. I've got as much right to an opinion as you, so EAT ME.

The numbers are the fucking numbers. Nothing changes them. And if the HoF doesn't recognize them, while it recognizes a ton of other numbers including from other far-less-than-pillars-of-society, then it's not a Hall of Fame, it's a hypocritical wank museum for the business of baseball and not the sport.

Keep him banned from association with MLB for the rest of his life, I don't care. But don't tell me he didn't put up the numbers he did, because that's flat out dishonest.

Now go fuck yourself in the ass with Pete Rose's bat from 1963. A broken one.

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

There have been rumors that he did bet against the Reds. They have never been confirmed or denied by MLB.

 

[Pogo]

A manager betting on games challenges the integrity of the game and MLB. Yeah...steroids, drugs and so on...they stain the game...but it does not threaten the integrity like gambling...an action that can affect the outcome of a game or a season...or even the odds of a game. Rose had insider knowledge and the ability to cheat for profit (yes, I know - he supposedly never bet against the Reds, but honestly...I think he did and that is why the punishment is so harsh). Mr. Hustle was a focused man who did everything to win...don't you think that quality would extend to gambling?

When he dies, reinstate him, admit him to the Hall of Fame...until then, let him suffer.

Are you shittin' me?
Steroids don't affect the outcome of a game?
Ever seen a baseball game?

Not saying that steroids don't benefit the individual player...they get caught, they get punished for drug abuse. It's not like entire teams are taking steroids at the direction of the club...AND ON TOP OF THAT...cold medicine can make one test positive for steroids. And, even with steroids...if you can't already hit, throw or run, they aren't going to help you at all.

And btw nobody, including MLB, claimed he ever bet against his own team. Your dreaming up fantasies doesn't make them retroactive events.

Of course that is what they claimed. It is irrelevant either way....it is just common sense and basic ethics NOT to bet on your team...or bet on games within the organization in which you play.

Your argument consists of "it's probably true because I want it to be true". That's a complete fallacious failure.
If there were such evidence, MLB would have it.

And it's not plausible anyway for anyone who ever saw Rose play. There was no more intense competitor. He's probably not even capable of throwing a game.

I saw Rose play...he was the man....certainly one of my favorites growing up. His numbers are true...but his actions forfeited his right to contemporary praise. When he dies, it will be great to look back at all of his accomplishments and see him in the HOF...I will never forget him bowling over the catcher in an All-Star game are running full speed to first after a walk. I can see his hunched down stance and his compact swing right now.

As for whether or not he bet against the Reds...irrelevant. He bet on them and other MLB teams. No excuse.

MLB hasn't a

A manager betting on games challenges the integrity of the game and MLB. Yeah...steroids, drugs and so on...they stain the game...but it does not threaten the integrity like gambling...an action that can affect the outcome of a game or a season...or even the odds of a game. Rose had insider knowledge and the ability to cheat for profit (yes, I know - he supposedly never bet against the Reds, but honestly...I think he did and that is why the punishment is so harsh). Mr. Hustle was a focused man who did everything to win...don't you think that quality would extend to gambling?

When he dies, reinstate him, admit him to the Hall of Fame...until then, let him suffer.

Are you shittin' me?
Steroids don't affect the outcome of a game?
Ever seen a baseball game?

Not saying that steroids don't benefit the individual player...they get caught, they get punished for drug abuse.

They do NOW, yeah. After a lot of pressure and bad publicity. But I don't see Mark McGwire banned from baseball, do you?

It's not like entire teams are taking steroids at the direction of the club...AND ON TOP OF THAT...cold medicine can make one test positive for steroids. And, even with steroids...if you can't already hit, throw or run, they aren't going to help you at all.

And btw nobody, including MLB, claimed he ever bet against his own team. Your dreaming up fantasies doesn't make them retroactive events.

Of course that is what they claimed. It is irrelevant either way....it is just common sense and basic ethics NOT to bet on your team...or bet on games within the organization in which you play.

Your argument consists of "it's probably true because I want it to be true". That's a complete fallacious failure.
If there were such evidence, MLB would have it.

And it's not plausible anyway for anyone who ever saw Rose play. There was no more intense competitor. He's probably not even capable of throwing a game.

You'd be surprised what a gambling addiction could make someone do. Gun to my head he bet against the Reds at some point.

Once again, you're fabricating stuff that never existed. MLB didn't even claim that.

 

[Pogo]

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

There have been rumors that he did bet against the Reds. They have never been confirmed or denied by MLB.

MLB doesn't "deny rumors". It's not in that business. Some wags speculating on internet message boards doesn't make it revisionist history. Period. You have to work with what you got. And you ain't got that. "I've heard rumors" and $2.25 will buy you a coffee at my local Starbucks. It's cheap there.

 

[Pogo]

What the fuck is your problem, shitstain? You've done nothing but attack me because I dare to think through a position you didn't think of. I've got as much right to an opinion as you, so EAT ME.

The numbers are the fucking numbers. Nothing changes them. And if the HoF doesn't recognize them, while it recognizes a ton of other numbers including from other far-less-than-pillars-of-society, then it's not a Hall of Fame, it's a hypocritical wank museum for the business of baseball and not the sport.

Keep him banned from association with MLB for the rest of his life, I don't care. But don't tell me he didn't put up the numbers he did, because that's flat out dishonest.

Now go fuck yourself in the ass with Pete Rose's bat from 1963. A broken one.

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

Uh -- no, it isn't. That would be a whole different ball game, literally.
You understand what that means? He's the manager, making all the field moves. If he bets against his own team he's in the position to play a weak game, lose the game, win the bet. That's what that would mean if he'd done that.

On the other hand, bet on your own team to win, it just gives you more incentive to do what you're hired to do in the first place-- win the game (and win the bet too).

Those are COMPLETELY different.

I can't believe you really typed that and put it on the internet. That shows no understanding of either sports or betting

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

Gambling doesn't even take place on the field. What you're talking about is the business. Public image. How much money is made at the turnstile.

Pure game unique from those others mentioned, yes I fully agree. But that's not what you're talking about protecting the "integrity" of.

 

[Rocko]

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

There have been rumors that he did bet against the Reds. They have never been confirmed or denied by MLB.

MLB doesn't "deny rumors". It's not in that business. Some wags speculating on internet message boards doesn't make it revisionist history. Period. You have to work with what you got. And you ain't got that. "I've heard rumors" and $2.25 will buy you a coffee at my local Starbucks. It's cheap there.

What revisionist history? There were rumors he bet against his own team. There was never any proof, but people talked about it.

 

[Pogo]

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

There have been rumors that he did bet against the Reds. They have never been confirmed or denied by MLB.

MLB doesn't "deny rumors". It's not in that business. Some wags speculating on internet message boards doesn't make it revisionist history. Period. You have to work with what you got. And you ain't got that. "I've heard rumors" and $2.25 will buy you a coffee at my local Starbucks. It's cheap there.

What revisionist history? There were rumors he bet against his own team. There was never any proof, but people talked about it.

What "people talked about" is absolutely meaningless. "People talked about" Elvis being abducted by aliens. Doesn't make it real.

 

[Nutz]

Ok maybe I've been a bit of an asshole, but in my defense I am an asshole.

I explained it to you three times His numbers dont mean shit because he compromised the integrity of the game. Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you've been working there for 10+ years. Your performance was exceptional to the effect that you were recognized as the best CEO in buisness. Everything is going great for you until you get caught in a shareholder fraud scandal at the end of your tenure with the company. Now the company's most important asset is its bond of trust and it's partnership with its shareholders. Knowing that could you ever resonably expect the company to ever honor you for your past work ever? Don't say it's apples to oranges because it's not.

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

Uh -- no, it isn't. That would be a whole different ball game, literally.
You understand what that means? He's the manager, making all the field moves. If he bets against his own team he's in the position to play a weak game, lose the game, win the bet. That's what that would mean if he'd done that.

On the other hand, bet on your own team to win, it just gives you more incentive to do what you're hired to do in the first place-- win the game (and win the bet too).

Those are COMPLETELY different.

Now the canadian is coming out of you. It is not completely different. There is something called principle.

I can't believe you really typed that and put it on the internet. That shows no understanding of either sports or betting

Actually, it shows you have ZERO understanding of INTEGRITY.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

Gambling doesn't even take place on the field. What you're talking about is the business. Public image. How much money is made at the turnstile.[/quote]
MLB is more about asses in the seats. These men are paid to play a kids game...and kids look up to then. MLB is the pinnacle of baseball...they define the integrity of the game.

Pure game unique from those others mentioned, yes I fully agree. But that's not what you're talking about protecting the "integrity" of.

Yes, I am.

 

[Rocko]

Here's an interesting read.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/baseball/rose-bet-against-his-own-team-alleges-lawyer-1.330492

 

[Nutz]

Here s an interesting article. Like I sad, I think he probably did bet against the Reds.

ESPN.com MLB - Dowd Rose probably bet against Reds while manager

Dowd told the New York Post on Wednesday he thought it was "probably right" that Rose not only bet on Reds games but that he bet against the Reds during the mid-to-late-1980s when Rose managed Cincinnati...

Dowd, a Washington D.C.-based lawyer, investigated Rose for commissioners Peter Ueberroth and Giamatti in 1989. He said his investigation was "close" to showing that Rose also bet against the Reds, but that time constraints prevented its inclusion in the report...

Dowd also told the Post that Rose did not bet on the Reds whenever two pitchers, including Mario Soto, started, which "sent a message through the gambling community that the Reds can't win" on those days.

 

[Nutz]

You just said the same thing I did and messed up the quote machine.
But no MLB isn't the "pinnacle of baseball", far from it. MLB is a conglomeration of sluts suits dedicated to soaking as much money from the public as it can under the guise of the Game. If you think it represents the spirit of it you're very naïve.

LOL Fixed quote machine

Yeah...MLB is about money...I don't deny that. But saying MLB isn't the pinnacle of the game and it doesn't represent the spirit of the sport is misguided and cynical. A 12 year old doesn't care about the $$$...or even understand the business...they watch the players/ coaches and emulate them.

 

[Pogo]

Yeah it is apples and oranges. Because in a proper analogy the CEO with the fraud would be equivalent to Rose throwing games or deliberately striking out.

You seem to think the gambling episodes are somehow related to the hits and the base steals and the runs.
It isn't. They're two entirely separate things.

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

Uh -- no, it isn't. That would be a whole different ball game, literally.
You understand what that means? He's the manager, making all the field moves. If he bets against his own team he's in the position to play a weak game, lose the game, win the bet. That's what that would mean if he'd done that.

On the other hand, bet on your own team to win, it just gives you more incentive to do what you're hired to do in the first place-- win the game (and win the bet too).

Those are COMPLETELY different.

Now the canadian is coming out of you. It is not completely different. There is something called principle.

There's nothing "Canadian" about simple logic. Or about me. But it is reminding me why I have you on ignore -- when you're losing the argument you go loonybin, befitting the handle. And btw "Canadian" would be capitalized. Proper noun.

Yes it is completely different. Entirely opposite set of motivations. In the first scenario (betting against your own team) you're in a position to make that happen. You cannot as easily "make" your team win. If anyone could do that the game wouldn't even exist. There would be no point in playing one. Think about it.

Duh.

I can't believe you really typed that and put it on the internet. That shows no understanding of either sports or betting

Actually, it shows you have ZERO understanding of INTEGRITY.

"Integrity" doesn't even enter into it. It's a simple basic understanding of how motivation works; I have it, you don't. You just tried to equate two completely opposite motivations and call them the same thing.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

Gambling doesn't even take place on the field. What you're talking about is the business. Public image. How much money is made at the turnstile.

MLB is more about asses in the seats. These men are paid to play a kids game...and kids look up to then. MLB is the pinnacle of baseball...they define the integrity of the game.

You just said the same thing I did and completely fucked up the quote machine. Don't do that.
But no MLB isn't the "pinnacle of baseball", far from it. MLB is a conglomeration of sluts suits dedicated to soaking as much money from the public as it can under the guise of the Game. If you think it represents the spirit of it you're very naïve.

 

[Nutz]

Come on man...a coach betting on his team...that he has control over....in what world is that acceptable? The act itself reflects on the reputation of MLB.

--- where did I ever say it was "acceptable"?
Where did anybody say it was "acceptable"?
See what I mean about making shit up? And you want to whine about Pete Rose lying? Really?

How to lose fans 101...let them think games are fixed. Cheating at this level is inexcusable and unforgivable. There are a million other thingd Rose could have bet on. He is scum.

I think there were a million other things he did bet on. No doubt once again that competitive obsession looking for an outlet after the body got to old to do it on the field.

Yeah he may be scum, and did other things none of us would be proud of. So did Ty Cobb (who's very much in the Hall). But none of them mean he didn't do what he did on the field.

See, when you guys refer to "the game" or "the sport", what you really mean is "the business".
Again -- two separate things. Rose insulted the business. He never insulted the Game.

First of all....I have made nothing up. I think he bet against the Reds...but I concede that all sources say he did not. That is fine...it is irrelevant whether he bet against his team...betting on his team is just as suspect.

Uh -- no, it isn't. That would be a whole different ball game, literally.
You understand what that means? He's the manager, making all the field moves. If he bets against his own team he's in the position to play a weak game, lose the game, win the bet. That's what that would mean if he'd done that.

On the other hand, bet on your own team to win, it just gives you more incentive to do what you're hired to do in the first place-- win the game (and win the bet too).

Those are COMPLETELY different.

Now the canadian is coming out of you. It is not completely different. There is something called principle.

There's nothing "Canadian" about simple logic. Or about me. But it is reminding me why I have you on ignore -- when you're losing the argument you go loonybin, befitting the handle. And btw "Canadian" would be capitalized. Proper noun.

canadian...I don't think I am losing any argument. I call you a canadian because I think you are an asshole and pathetic...just like canadians.

Yes it is completely different. Entirely opposite set of motivations. In the first scenario (betting against your own team) you're in a position to make that happen. You cannot as easily "make" your team win. If anyone could do that the game wouldn't even exist. There would be no point in playing one. Think about it.

Duh.

There is no 'Duh" about it. Gambling is against the rules. More than likely, he bet against his team...if he didn't, he still broke the rules. Illegal is illegal. DUH

I can't believe you really typed that and put it on the internet. That shows no understanding of either sports or betting

Actually, it shows you have ZERO understanding of INTEGRITY.

"Integrity" doesn't even enter into it. It's a simple basic understanding of how motivation works; I have it, you don't. You just tried to equate two completely opposite motivations and call them the same thing.

You are justifying Rose gambling on MLB and his team....you have no integrity.

And no...it isn't an insult to the business.,..it is an insult to the integrity of the game. A pure game that separates itself from the likes of football, socccer and basketball because the game can't end until the last pitch is thrown. There are no ties, there is no wasting time.

Gambling doesn't even take place on the field. What you're talking about is the business. Public image. How much money is made at the turnstile.

MLB is more about asses in the seats. These men are paid to play a kids game...and kids look up to then. MLB is the pinnacle of baseball...they define the integrity of the game.

You just said the same thing I did and completely fucked up the quote machine. Don't do that.
But no MLB isn't the "pinnacle of baseball", far from it. MLB is a conglomeration of sluts suits dedicated to soaking as much money from the public as it can under the guise of the Game. If you think it represents the spirit of it you're very naïve.

No, you just said the same thing...word for word IRC.

If MLB isn't the pinnacle of baseball...if reaching The Show isn't the goal of every 12 year old player...what is? canadian logic is pathetic.

 

[rightwinger]

Pete Rose was banned because his gambling "might" lead to cheating. There is no evidence that he did cheat

Those doing steroids WERE CHEATING. They were winning games that should have been lost. They were breaking records that they didn't deserve, they were signing huge contracts based on performance from cheating

But players using steroids were not banned for life. They were suspended three months and paid a small fine

 

[Papageorgio]

Pete Rose was banned because his gambling "might" lead to cheating. There is no evidence that he did cheat

Those doing steroids WERE CHEATING. They were winning games that should have been lost. They were breaking records that they didn't deserve, they were signing huge contracts based on performance from cheating

But players using steroids were not banned for life. They were suspended three months and paid a small fine

How many of those caught using steroids are in the HOF?

 

[rightwinger]

Pete Rose was banned because his gambling "might" lead to cheating. There is no evidence that he did cheat

Those doing steroids WERE CHEATING. They were winning games that should have been lost. They were breaking records that they didn't deserve, they were signing huge contracts based on performance from cheating

But players using steroids were not banned for life. They were suspended three months and paid a small fine

How many of those caught using steroids are in the HOF?

As far as I know, none. But there will be some borderline players who will sneak in

But there are dozens of players still playing in the major leagues who were found to be using steroids. Those players were actually cheating and were not kicked out of baseball like Rose was. Rose was never accused of cheating in a game.

Even worse are the league and the owners who looked the other way while beefed up players were shattering records and fans flowed into the game. They made huge profit off of these "supermen" and then acted surprised when they were found to be dirty

 

[Pogo]

Pete Rose was banned because his gambling "might" lead to cheating. There is no evidence that he did cheat

Those doing steroids WERE CHEATING. They were winning games that should have been lost. They were breaking records that they didn't deserve, they were signing huge contracts based on performance from cheating

But players using steroids were not banned for life. They were suspended three months and paid a small fine

How many of those caught using steroids are in the HOF?

Using steroids doesn't automatically give you Hall numbers. Apples and oranges here.

There are two different questions in this -- one, being banned from baseball activities, and two, being in the Hall.

Obviously not everybody gets to the Hall -- it takes extraordinary performance (or at least it's supposed to). It's entirely possible to roid out for a significant chunk of your playing days -- whether you got caught or not --- but still not have the performance to rate the Hall.

That's why I say if Rose upset the integrity of the corporation game, fine -- keep him out of baseball forever. They did something similar with Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays IIRC. But they're still in the Hall, because their performance warranted it. As does Rose's.

Comes down to this:
Hall of Fame recognition for what you did as a player in the past -- associating with MLB in the present and future:
= Two Different Things.