Pete Rose Formally Petitions MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred for Reinstatement

[rightwinger]

Pete Rose was banned because his gambling "might" lead to cheating. There is no evidence that he did cheat

Those doing steroids WERE CHEATING. They were winning games that should have been lost. They were breaking records that they didn't deserve, they were signing huge contracts based on performance from cheating

But players using steroids were not banned for life. They were suspended three months and paid a small fine

How many of those caught using steroids are in the HOF?

Using steroids doesn't automatically give you Hall numbers. Apples and oranges here.

There are two different questions in this -- one, being banned from baseball activities, and two, being in the Hall.

Obviously not everybody gets to the Hall -- it takes extraordinary performance (or at least it's supposed to). It's entirely possible to roid out for a significant chunk of your playing days -- whether you got caught or not --- but still not have the performance to rate the Hall.

That's why I say if Rose upset the integrity of the corporation game, fine -- keep him out of baseball forever. They did something similar with Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays IIRC. But they're still in the Hall, because their performance warranted it. As does Rose's.

Comes down to this:
Hall of Fame recognition for what you did as a player in the past -- associating with MLB in the present and future:
= Two Different Things.

If it comes down to the integrity of the game then nobody gets in
Baseball has no integrity
The same league and owners who look down on Pete Rose allowed the integrity of the game to be compromised when they promoted McGuire, Sosa, Bonds and Clemmons and made millions off of bogus performance

Rose was betting a few thousand and never bet against his team. Nobody has ever questioned his will to win every game. If Pete impacted the integrity of the game, he has paid the price. But for the owners of todays game to claim they are above question while they condemn Rose is a joke


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[LA RAM FAN]

Can't agree on this one Jake. Pete Rose was one of the best players to ever put on a uniform and his attitude alone served as immeasurable inspiration to arguably millions.

The whole denial of the HoF is complete political posturing and has nothing to do with his accomplishments, which are sitting right there in the record books whether anybody likes who set them or not. If they want to pretend the HoF is some kind of moral award, they'll need to kick out a bunch of others already in there - like Ty Cobb.

But that's not what HoF status is, and it's completely disingenuous to pretend it is.

exactly.well said.there are a few others in the hall that should not be in there as well since they are judging Rose on his character so the hall of fame is a joke.

 

[HUGGY]

Unless they can prove Rose did something to alter the score of a game the charge of gambling is stupid.

The Chicago team who's players threw games deserved what they got. Roses lifetime suspension was an over reaction by a bunch of hypocrits.

 

[rightwinger]

Unless they can prove Rose did something to alter the score of a game the charge of gambling is stupid.

The Chicago team who's players threw games deserved what they got. Roses lifetime suspension was an over reaction by a bunch of hypocrits.

Rose broke the rules and deserved to be punished

But thirty years and counting is excessive given the offenses that Baseball has overlooked.......especially from the owners

 

[Pop23]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

 

[Pop23]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

This actually would make a good poll

 

[Pogo]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

This actually would make a good poll

It would. Wanna set it up?
I think it should include choices for "lift the ban" and "keep the ban but give him the Hall" as well as "keep the ban" .

 

[Nosmo King]

The ban does have to do with his accomplishments: his breaking the rules outweigh his stats. His induction wait for him to RIP.

Maybe it comes down to this: they're not related things. Whatever he did with gambling does not take away those hits. Both exist. You can acknowledge one and disdain the other.

That's how I see it.

Perhaps it comes down to this question -- what is baseball for?
Is it for a friendly competition of sport where limits of human endurance, tenacity, agility and quick reflexes are tried and tested? Or is it a list of boy scouts who didn't gamble, because that would be bad for business?

Aye, there's the rub.

It has to be both. Rose gambled and gambled on baseball.

The steroid era is on deck for HoF nominations. Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, mark McGwire. Roided up and waiting for a call from Cooperstown. They cheated. Their hits are suspect. They exhibited endurance, tenacity and agility.

And they broke the rules too.

 

[Pop23]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

This actually would make a good poll

It would. Wanna set it up?
I think it should include choices for "lift the ban" and "keep the ban but give him the Hall" as well as "keep the ban" .

Be my guest. I'm going to bed. Feel like crap tonight.

I'd cast a vote in yours tomorrow

 

[Pogo]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

This actually would make a good poll

It would. Wanna set it up?
I think it should include choices for "lift the ban" and "keep the ban but give him the Hall" as well as "keep the ban" .

Be my guest. I'm going to bed. Feel like crap tonight.

I'd cast a vote in yours tomorrow

OK if I can figger out the poll machine I'll post it here.


EDIT: -- Whoot there it is.

 

[hortysir]

Unless they can prove Rose did something to alter the score of a game the charge of gambling is stupid.

The Chicago team who's players threw games deserved what they got. Roses lifetime suspension was an over reaction by a bunch of hypocrits.

Rose broke the rules and deserved to be punished

But thirty years and counting is excessive given the offenses that Baseball has overlooked.......especially from the owners

Letting him in now would require too many people to admit they were wrong

 

[JakeStarkey]

MPV, Rookie of the Year, 17 times all star, 3 times batting champion, 10 times more than 200 hits per year (leading the league 7 times along with Tony Gwynn; Stan Musial, 6 times; Honus Wagner, 4 times), 10 times more than 100 runs scored, played 119 or more games a year 23 years in a row.

Oh, yeah. Those are HOF numbers.

He gambled and lost. End of story.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Nobody played the game harder. Maybe the greatest overachiever to ever put on a uniform AND I was NOT A REDS FAN.

Not letting one of the greatest players ever in the HOF is a travesty.

especially since all he did was bet on games that his team would win.Thats not that much different than Joe Namath guaranteeing his team would win the superbowl.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Can't agree on this one Jake. Pete Rose was one of the best players to ever put on a uniform and his attitude alone served as immeasurable inspiration to arguably millions.

The whole denial of the HoF is complete political posturing and has nothing to do with his accomplishments, which are sitting right there in the record books whether anybody likes who set them or not. If they want to pretend the HoF is some kind of moral award, they'll need to kick out a bunch of others already in there - like Ty Cobb.

But that's not what HoF status is, and it's completely disingenuous to pretend it is.

if Ty Cobb who was less deserving of the hall because of his character gets to go in,so should Rose.

 

[JakeStarkey]

9/11, different times, different social logic.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

pete rose was an inspiration to me as a toddler as he was to countless others around the country to go out and play baseball as hard as you possibly can and work as hard as i could to be the best possible baseball player i could.its disgusting that anyone can possibly say he doesnt belong in the hall of fame when cheaters barry bonds and roger clemons are allowed on the ballot.

its disgusting that they dont allow a player like Rose into the hall of fame.you just dont find players like him anymore who during the REGULAR season,will go slide into second base HEAD first and go all out anymore like he did or in an all star game where they play it like its a party instead of serious game like he did.He was an inspiration to many such as myself in that regard and he is not a criminal.

if Rose isnt allowed into the hall because of his character,then cobb needs to be taken ouf ot the hall as well plain and simple.case closed.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

MPV, Rookie of the Year, 17 times all star, 3 times batting champion, 10 times more than 200 hits per year (leading the league 7 times along with Tony Gwynn; Stan Musial, 6 times; Honus Wagner, 4 times), 10 times more than 100 runs scored, played 119 or more games a year 23 years in a row.

Oh, yeah. Those are HOF numbers.

He gambled and lost. End of story.

the other thing that is the end of story is that
if Rose isnt allowed into the hall because of his character,then cobb needs to be taken ouf of the hall as well plain and simple.case closed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As usual, your logic is screwy. You are leading with your heart, and I fully understand that. But you are guilty of present-ism: trying to impose our standards back then. Won't work.

 

[rightwinger]

As usual, your logic is screwy. You are leading with your heart, and I fully understand that. But you are guilty of present-ism: trying to impose our standards back then. Won't work.

I am trying to apply today's standards to the 1980s in that today's standards allow proven steroid cheaters to play while Rose never cheated

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, you are engaged in the fallacy of present-ism.