Planned Parenthood Exposed - New Undercover Video

[Agnapostate]

Actually, parents are responsible for and do essentially own their children.

That's why we can be prosecuted for failing to provide proper care, for failing to supervise them adequately, and we can be held financially responsible for what our kids do.

I like the "we" used there. Implicitly assuming that I can't possibly be a parent, right?

Again, my focus is more on the ethical aspect than the legal aspect. Parents may indeed be financially responsible for their children, but that is descriptive, and not prescriptive.

I have stated my belief that parents should not be financially and legally responsible for their offspring of reproductive age, and have provided a vast array of evidence to support my belief. You have not replied sufficiently.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course you know that was never my point, it was an example of the absurdity in saying I couldn't understand a parental point of view. It was an example of the absurdity of an argument that rests on the logic of "Because I said so". As long as we're straight on that I think we're on the same page.

There's no absurdity in saying you can't understand what it's like to be a parent without being one. You can't, anymore than a man could truly understand what it's like to be a woman. I could talk until I'm blue in the face, trying to explain to you what it's like to carry another human being inside your body for nine months, but it's simply not something you can understand until you've done it. I know, because I've tried to explain it to my husband, and it ain't happening.

And I don't think anyone said, "Because I say so" about anything. It seems completely fair to me, when someone makes lofty, abstract pronouncements about something, to point out that they can't possibly know firsthand what they're talking about. It's easy to talk about how mature and responsible adolescents are when 1) you're practically one yourself, if not actually one, and 2) you're not the person who's actually going to have to bear the brunt of that adolescent's behavior.

 

[Agnapostate]

It's true that a unique perspective of a certain experience is gained through actually having that experience yourself, but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't even have a mere inkling of understanding of the experience. They have a conceptual awareness of it, just as you have a conceptual awareness of knowing that it causes suffering to be struck by a car, stranded in the desert, etc., despite probably never having experienced those things yourself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A parental perspective is one of the things in life that you can't fully understand until you are a parent. That's the reality of it. I didn't like hearing it when I was younger, but once I had kids of my own I realized it was quite true.

Of course, that doesn't invalidate anyone's thoughts on the various issues. It is nevertheless true.

I thank God every day that I was at least marginally smart enough in my late adolescence/early twenties to realize that my parents had something on the ball, because it saved me from making a fool of myself a lot more often than I did. I still look back and cringe, though, at what an obnoxious brat I was sometimes. I think every experienced adult does.

"While it is true that you learn with age, the down side is that what you learn is often what a damn fool you were before." - Thomas Sowell

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please. Parenting doesn't work like that. If my child has a child, and that grandbaby is being abused or neglected, or isn't being raised properly, most grandparents still feel a responsibility to step in.

That's why we keep saying that those who haven't had children don't truly understand the sense of duty that parents have towards their children.

Abused and neglected, nothing. My daughter does a reasonably good job of taking care of her son - not as well as I would, of course - and I still feel the need to help out whenever possible. Hell, my MOTHER feels the need to take a certain amount of responsibility for her great-grandchild. I'm forty years old as of last month, and my mom still feels the need to help ME out when things get tough. They NEVER stop being your babies.

 

[Agnapostate]

I thank God every day that I was at least marginally smart enough in my late adolescence/early twenties to realize that my parents had something on the ball, because it saved me from making a fool of myself a lot more often than I did. I still look back and cringe, though, at what an obnoxious brat I was sometimes. I think every experienced adult does.

"While it is true that you learn with age, the down side is that what you learn is often what a damn fool you were before." - Thomas Sowell

Hindsight is 20/20, and as I said before, few people would look back at any period in their lives and not regret certain decisions they had made in that period.

Oh, and what a pity that Thomas Sowell hasn't learned what a damn fool he still is.

 

[Agnapostate]

Abused and neglected, nothing. My daughter does a reasonably good job of taking care of her son - not as well as I would, of course - and I still feel the need to help out whenever possible. Hell, my MOTHER feels the need to take a certain amount of responsibility for her great-grandchild. I'm forty years old as of last month, and my mom still feels the need to help ME out when things get tough. They NEVER stop being your babies.

I don't think Amanda or anyone else has denied that parents and grandparents tend to have that perspective. I think what she has claimed is that for practical purposes, parental perspective is not always the most rational measurement of whether or not an individual is prepared for independence and self-sufficiency. In fact, it's a rather biased, personal perspective at times.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And to science, apparently.

I am curious as to why you did not respond to post #342, especially since you have not abandoned your condescending remarks.

I would say that even non-parents have at least a conceptual awareness of what it's like to be a parent, if not a personal perspective, just as one does not need to personally be hit by a car to know that being hit by a car would cause injury.

I'd like to know how science says that a 14-year-old is an adult.

And no, you don't have a "conceptual awareness". You have what you GUESS is an awareness. You GUESS it's like this, with no real way of knowing. It's like the difference between hearing someone tell you what it's like to be in the zero gravity of space, and actually going up in the space shuttle.

And I can't believe you have to have this explained to you, but there's a whole WORLD of difference between "knowing that being hit by a car would cause injury" and actually knowing what it's like to be hit by a car.

 

[Angel Heart]

I like the "we" used there. Implicitly assuming that I can't possibly be a parent, right?

Again, my focus is more on the ethical aspect than the legal aspect. Parents may indeed be financially responsible for their children, but that is descriptive, and not prescriptive.

I have stated my belief that parents should not be financially and legally responsible for their offspring of reproductive age, and have provided a vast array of evidence to support my belief. You have not replied sufficiently.

So I should of been on my own at 9 yrs old? How are we to determine if they are of reproductive age? Each persons body starts at different times. Some earlier than others.

I can tell you I wasn't ready to care for myself until I was a lot older than 9.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Children are physically incapable of having babies, so I would wonder how you would even find yourself in such a discussion.

Of course children can have babies. The ability to menstruate and ovulate does not in any way make one an adult. It makes one a gradually maturing child.

 

[Agnapostate]

So I should of been on my own at 9 yrs old? How are we to determine if they are of reproductive age. Each persons body starts at different times. Some earlier than others.

Well, I don't believe that reproductive age should be a precise measurement of when persons should be independent, because I don't believe that any set age should be a measurement of that. I just support the prospect of persons of reproductive age generally being independent adults without actual age restrictions set up to prevent younger people from doing so.

Perhaps a system in which adolescents were generally assumed to be competent except in the case of obvious incompetence and in which children needed court approval to be independent would ensure this.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I do not have children, no. But if my daughter became pregnant, and had an abortion without my knowledge, I would be disappointed, but I would respect her decision.
Would I be angry with her? Of course not. It is her decision. I would be upset she chose not to involve me though. Why? Because she is my daughter and I love her, and would want to offer her support.
If your child has a termination behind your back, and the reason for that is she was too afraid to tell you she had made a mistake, what does that say about your parenting skills? Does it tell you that you have made your child believe you would be angry with them? Have you raised them to believe that they would not have a choice to abort if they involved you? If your child is too afraid to come to you over something so life changing, if she prefers to go it alone and not come to you for moral support, then that really says something about the way you have raised that child, and you should think about that before you condemn your daughter for going behind your back.

Ah, the pronouncements of "this is how I would feel and behave if I were a parent" from one who has never been there. Smell the arrogance in the air!

Call me when you're not discussing some abstract, non-existent child, but one you've carried, nurtured, and worried over for over a decade. The people who know best how to raise children are ALWAYS the ones who've never done it, never been responsible, never had to care.

 

[Agnapostate]

I'd like to know how science says that a 14-year-old is an adult.

And no, you don't have a "conceptual awareness". You have what you GUESS is an awareness. You GUESS it's like this, with no real way of knowing. It's like the difference between hearing someone tell you what it's like to be in the zero gravity of space, and actually going up in the space shuttle.

And I can't believe you have to have this explained to you, but there's a whole WORLD of difference between "knowing that being hit by a car would cause injury" and actually knowing what it's like to be hit by a car.

I have posted numerous studies to support my view. Perhaps if you read the entire thread before replying, you would be aware of this.

And I'm not interested in playing a semantics game about the meaning of "conceptual awareness." The fact of the matter is that you have some form of awareness of the effects of being hit by a car that may lead you to the same conclusions about the wisdom of avoiding rushing cars that actually being hit by one would. Before I got hit by a car, I had the same awareness that being hit by one would hurt as I did after I got hit by a car. In both instances, I knew that being hit by a car was inadvisable.

Of course children can have babies. The ability to menstruate and ovulate does not in any way make one an adult. It makes one a gradually maturing child.

No, it makes one a biological adult, and most individuals of that age group are also mental adults, as the studies that I have posted evidence. Believe you me, the mass media's depiction of youth is largely inaccurate and intended to increase ratings through "shock sales."

 

[Agnapostate]

Ah, the pronouncements of "this is how I would feel and behave if I were a parent" from one who has never been there. Smell the arrogance in the air!

Yes...from you.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

 

[AllieBaba]

In case you haven't noticed yet, nobody ever reads the entirety of your boring, blowhardical posts.

 

[Agnapostate]

In case you haven't noticed yet, nobody ever reads the entirety of your boring, blowhardical posts.

But it's not too late to learn how.

 

[AllieBaba]

Nobody reads them because they're repetitive, self-aggrandizing and, ultimately, ridiculous.

Also boring.

Learn to edit yourself, genius.

 

[Agnapostate]

I could give you a link to a pronunciation guide if you'd like.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The problem with that, makkers, is that the nurse did this in violation of mandatory report laws. Any of us who work with teenagers know that if a teen tells us certain things, such as the fact that she has been sexually molested, we have to report this. By failing to do so, the nurse has totally buggered her career. And, I have to say I have little sympathy for her.

Just what the world needs: individual people deciding that THEY are, personally, so wise and all-knowing that they are qualified to decide what is best for everyone else, irrespective of who actually carries the responsibilities inherent in that decision AND irrespective of what the law has ALREADY decided is best and the highest priority in that situation.

Hey, who cares about prosecuting child molesters? Just make sure the girls can abort the molesters' babies later, and everything's cool.

 

[AllieBaba]

And help them to do it secretly.