Police state national ID card tucked in immigration bill

[JoeMoma]

I haven’t read the entire thread, so someone may have already said this. Hasn’t the social security card/number become the de facto national ID? The only thing that is missing is a photo.

 

[Montrovant]

Fingerprints, retinal scans, DNA information.....none of this is anything the government should be able to demand from citizens who have not done anything wrong. The purpose of the ID should not override Constitutional protections.

This argument ultimately rests on the merits of purpose, which in this example is perfectly reasonable. I'm quite sure the majority of ordinary Americans will agree that the proposed Citizen ID Card has a broadly beneficial purpose, i.e., control of illegal immigration.

I see. So you feel that violating Constitutional protections is fine, so long as you consider the purpose reasonable. Does that include, say, gun control? Isn't protecting citizens from mass shootings a reasonable purpose? Next, perhaps, you could cut off the right to assembly. After all, we must stop any other incidents such as what happened in Charlottesville, right?

And what does the privacy of American citizens matter in the face of your fear of illegal immigrants?

And certainly, we should trust the government to only use this ID for this intended purpose. After all, look how vigilantly the government stuck to the proposed use of the Social Security Number!

You may be afraid enough of illegal immigrants to give up your privacy and trust the government to be responsible with your data. I'll remain happy that there are still protections in place against at least some government intrusion.

Oh, and a question: What would this ID do to stop illegal immigrants from working under the table?

 

[MikeK]

I haven’t read the entire thread, so someone may have already said this. Hasn’t the social security card/number become the de facto national ID? The only thing that is missing is a photo.

Essentially, yes. The problem is it's too easy to just borrow someone's name and number, which is commonly done. But biometric ID will be impossible to impersonate.

 

[MikeK]

I see. So you feel that violating Constitutional protections is fine, so long as you consider the purpose reasonable.

[...]

Yes. I believe if the purpose is reasonable there is no violation.

Aside from that I don't see what harm can come from every American citizen being identified and positively identifiable, but under the existing circumstances I can clearly see the advantage. As you have suggested, I am afraid of a certain category of illegal immigrants and I believe extreme measures will be necessary to effectively purge them.

 

[MikeK]

I see. So you feel that violating Constitutional protections is fine, so long as you consider the purpose reasonable. Does that include, say, gun control?

Again, if the purpose is reasonable there is no violation.

As for gun control, I am rigidly opposed to the majority of gun laws. And I believe that all forms of gun registration are unconstitutional.

Isn't protecting citizens from mass shootings a reasonable purpose?

Answering that question would depend on what level of prohibition we are willing to accept in the way of gun laws. As a strong Second Amendment advocate I willingly accept the risk associated with living in an armed society, which includes the occasional mass shooting.

 

[badger2]

Without a photo ID, you disappear from within the system while immigrant rumps rely on church-and-state connections to get them to Gold Mountain. Yes, the Constitution screwed up: freedom from religion, and the State, as Apollon has already shown (A Lasting Heresy) is always already fundamentally terrorist.

 

[rightwinger]

Everyone should get a free national ID card

 

[badger2]

#101: We have already shown the contradiction involved with the photo and SS card. If you don't have a photo ID, you don't get a new SS card if you lose the previous one.

 

[rightwinger]

I think the biometric ID card is not only a good idea but a necessary one -- and I can't understand why any citizen would object to it. It would serve as instant and incontrovertible proof that one is a bona fide American citizen, which is something to be proud of. And it would, for one important thing, eliminate the problem of illegal immigrants stealing jobs from legitimate citizens.

It could also be used as a drivers license, credit card, insurance card or any other form of ID

 

[danielpalos]

let's start with foreign nationals in the US; it is what ICE can be good for, "conductors for our American Express".

 

[rightwinger]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

 

[danielpalos]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

 

[rightwinger]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

Why not everyone?

What are you afraid of?

 

[danielpalos]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

Why not everyone?

What are you afraid of?

with a federal ID, States no longer have to consider foreigners as Citizens under our State Constitution.

 

[badger2]

The federal responsibility is also a Social Security ID responsibility due to the contradiction inherent with the photo ID. For all legal Americans. Otherwise, immigrants cannot be defined as such, as long as the contradiction remains in the ID machine. Americans get priority, or the judge gets crucified. The judge should have become a street-sweeper instead.

Trump slammed law enforcement leaders politicizing the memo this morning.

 

[danielpalos]

The federal responsibility is also a Social Security ID responsibility due to the contradiction inherent with the photo ID. For all legal Americans. Otherwise, immigrants cannot be defined as such, as long as the contradiction remains in the ID machine. Americans get priority, or the judge gets crucified. The judge should have become a street-sweeper instead.

Trump slammed law enforcement leaders politicizing the memo this morning.

Entry into the Union is a federal responsibility since 1808. Only the right wing wants a national id for everyone.

 

[rightwinger]

Depending on the data that would be used, that is not necessarily true. Even if it is true, that should mean that we work to have such records purged and prevent the government from continuing to do so in the future, not roll over and show our bellies because it's already being done.

Your reasoning here seems to be, "The government is already ignoring the fourth amendment, so let's just go along with that."

Please tell us specifically what personal information you would choose to deny government access to? And why.

The Fourth Amendment protects you against unreasonable search and seizure of your papers and effects, and rightfully so. But considering the purpose of the proposed Citizen ID Card, specifically what personal information do you believe would be unreasonable for this card to contain?

Fingerprints, retinal scans, DNA information.....none of this is anything the government should be able to demand from citizens who have not done anything wrong. The purpose of the ID should not override Constitutional protections.

Just Identifying features like your photo, signature or height and weight

Makes it almost impossible to steal your identity

 

[rightwinger]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

Why not everyone?

What are you afraid of?

with a federal ID, States no longer have to consider foreigners as Citizens under our State Constitution.

Makes no difference

 

[danielpalos]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

Why not everyone?

What are you afraid of?

with a federal ID, States no longer have to consider foreigners as Citizens under our State Constitution.

Makes no difference

yes, it does.

 

[rightwinger]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

all foreigners in the US should have a federal id because they are a federal responsibility.

Why not everyone?

What are you afraid of?

with a federal ID, States no longer have to consider foreigners as Citizens under our State Constitution.

Makes no difference

yes, it does.

ID is still ID

Having a national ID tied to biometrics makes it almost impossible to steal your identity