Police state national ID card tucked in immigration bill

[badger2]

As already mentioned, the susceptibility as it stands includes immigrants stealing wallets to get temp gigs.

 

[badger2]

It only takes one good forger to work thefts in California transferred to New York or vice versa.

 

[Montrovant]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

State ID cards are not mandatory. The idea behind the national ID card in this thread is for it to be mandatory, I believe.

 

[Montrovant]

I see. So you feel that violating Constitutional protections is fine, so long as you consider the purpose reasonable. Does that include, say, gun control?

Again, if the purpose is reasonable there is no violation.

As for gun control, I am rigidly opposed to the majority of gun laws. And I believe that all forms of gun registration are unconstitutional.

Isn't protecting citizens from mass shootings a reasonable purpose?

Answering that question would depend on what level of prohibition we are willing to accept in the way of gun laws. As a strong Second Amendment advocate I willingly accept the risk associated with living in an armed society, which includes the occasional mass shooting.

Whether or not something is unconstitutional is apparently not a problem, so long as the purpose is reasonable. Is preventing gun deaths not a reasonable purpose? That would negate any Constitutional violation according to you.

I find it funny that you are content to accept the risk of firearms, but so afraid of illegal immigrants you are willing to curtail Constitutional protections.

You also seem to have a strangely firm belief that a biometric ID could not be faked, and that having a national biometric ID would somehow prevent all illegal alien employment.

 

[Montrovant]

I think the biometric ID card is not only a good idea but a necessary one -- and I can't understand why any citizen would object to it. It would serve as instant and incontrovertible proof that one is a bona fide American citizen, which is something to be proud of. And it would, for one important thing, eliminate the problem of illegal immigrants stealing jobs from legitimate citizens.

It could also be used as a drivers license, credit card, insurance card or any other form of ID

Wait, how is the national ID going to be used for all of those? Or am I missing sarcasm?

 

[rightwinger]

How is having a national ID card a "Police State" while a state ID is not?

State ID cards are not mandatory. The idea behind the national ID card in this thread is for it to be mandatory, I believe.

Should be

One ID can be used as a credit card, drivers license, SS Card, health insurance card....anything you need ID for
You would only need one card in your wallet

Maybe it can be like a dog tag you wear around your neck
Just scan it and go

 

[rightwinger]

I think the biometric ID card is not only a good idea but a necessary one -- and I can't understand why any citizen would object to it. It would serve as instant and incontrovertible proof that one is a bona fide American citizen, which is something to be proud of. And it would, for one important thing, eliminate the problem of illegal immigrants stealing jobs from legitimate citizens.

It could also be used as a drivers license, credit card, insurance card or any other form of ID

Wait, how is the national ID going to be used for all of those? Or am I missing sarcasm?

Your ID would only have your name, SSN and biometrics (retinal scan, DNA, facial recognition, fingerprint, photo) imbedded in it. It only identifies who you are

When you go to buy something in a store, their computers would link to your account numbers based on your ID
Same goes for your drivers license. When you get pulled over the cop would insert your ID and all your driver information and insurance would come up
Health insurance would not only have your insurance number but critical medical records and prescriptions

 

[badger2]

#123 fails to define a state ID card, of which there are several forms (driver's license, voter's ID). The fallacy that "state ID cards are not mandatory" is that the state ID form that federally matters is the photo ID. The federal ID form that stately matters is the photo ID. With no photo identification, from either state or federal, one may as well have immigrant status. Obtaining a new SS card requires a photo ID regardless of whatever other documentation is presented, either from state or even a social security number. The Social Security number alone will not suffice for obtaining a new Social Security card. That is the catch-22.

 

[MikeK]

Whether or not something is unconstitutional is apparently not a problem, so long as the purpose is reasonable. Is preventing gun deaths not a reasonable purpose?

It certainly would be if you could prove conclusively that a proposed law, or set of laws, would prevent gun-related deaths. Do you have any such law(s) in mind?

 

[rightwinger]

#123 fails to define a state ID card, of which there are several forms (driver's license, voter's ID). The fallacy that "state ID cards are not mandatory" is that the state ID form that federally matters is the photo ID. The federal ID form that stately matters is the photo ID. With no photo identification, from either state or federal, one may as well have immigrant status. Obtaining a new SS card requires a photo ID regardless of whatever other documentation is presented, either from state or even a social security number. The Social Security number alone will not suffice for obtaining a new Social Security card. That is the catch-22.

Happened to my son when he was 17

Somebody stole his wallet and it had his Drivers License, Student ID. SS Card in it
All the photo IDs he had

We had his birth certificate and Social Security and DMV would not accept it

 

[Montrovant]

Whether or not something is unconstitutional is apparently not a problem, so long as the purpose is reasonable. Is preventing gun deaths not a reasonable purpose?

It certainly would be if you could prove conclusively that a proposed law, or set of laws, would prevent gun-related deaths. Do you have any such law(s) in mind?

Wait, we need conclusive proof? You haven't provided any of that regarding a national ID and immigration.

 

[MikeK]

I find it funny that you are content to accept the risk of firearms, but so afraid of illegal immigrants you are willing to curtail Constitutional protections.

I am not afraid of the kind of illegal immigrants who swim the Rio Grande to pick fruit in California. I have no problem with those hard-working, family-oriented Christian peasants who want nothing more than to earn a few bucks and go back home post-season. In addition to the gang-oriented category of Mexican border-jumpers, the kind of illegals I have legitimate fear of are those Islamic savages who have effectively invaded and occupied most of Europe and parts of Scandinavia. They are now filtering into Canada. Once they manage to dominate that population -- we are next!

Or don't you believe what we are seeing is the incremental formation of an army?

 

[badger2]

That is correct. The Wisconsin DMV will not issue a voter's ID (which may have a photo attached?) if one previously had a driver's license from that state. If the driver's license has expired, a state-level ID will not suffice for obtaining a new(previously lost) SS card. A new SS card requires a photo ID regardless of whatever other identification is presented.

 

[MikeK]

You also seem to have a strangely firm belief that a biometric ID could not be faked, and that having a national biometric ID would somehow prevent all illegal alien employment.

The biometric ID card is addressable, like a credit card. The information it contains will be duplicated in a central storage bank.

Anyone who employs workers will be required to use a swiping device (which attaches to an ordinary phone line) to verify ID authenticity. A faked card would be instantly detected.

Think of Biometric ID as a system, not just a card. Once implemented our illegal migrant problem will soon be ended.

 

[rightwinger]

You also seem to have a strangely firm belief that a biometric ID could not be faked, and that having a national biometric ID would somehow prevent all illegal alien employment.

The biometric ID card is addressable, like a credit card. The information it contains will be duplicated in a central storage bank.

Anyone who employs workers will be required to use a swiping device (which attaches to an ordinary phone line) to verify ID authenticity. A faked card would be instantly detected.

Think of Biometric ID as a system, not just a card. Once implemented our illegal migrant problem will soon be ended.

The card could probably be faked

But when you try to use a fake card for MikeK and you don't have the correct biometrics it will be rejected by the system

 

[MikeK]

The card could probably be faked

But when you try to use a fake card for MikeK and you don't have the correct biometrics it will be rejected by the system

The very first mention of a Biometric ID Card was in an article I read during the Obama years. Of particular interest was a device that looks like an ordinary cell-phone, attaches to an ordinary phone line, and addresses a central bank where duplicates of every bio-card issued are stored and are instantly accessible with a simple swipe.

One corner of this device can be held close to the right or left eye of the addressed card-holder for a retina-scan. Another corner will read the right or left thumb-print. The entire center of the screen holds a crystal-clear color photo.

As you've mentioned, the Bio-ID Card could indeed be faked. But, as mentioned, the ability to detect a fake makes the effort utterly impractical.

That article was the first and last I ever heard of the proposed Bio-ID Card -- until recently. Whereas the Obama Administration probably rejected the idea I believe it will strongly appeal to Trump.

 

[badger2]

One cam click on various states for details.

Id Cards DMV.org
Applying for a New Identification Card | DMV.ORG

 

[Montrovant]

You also seem to have a strangely firm belief that a biometric ID could not be faked, and that having a national biometric ID would somehow prevent all illegal alien employment.

The biometric ID card is addressable, like a credit card. The information it contains will be duplicated in a central storage bank.

Anyone who employs workers will be required to use a swiping device (which attaches to an ordinary phone line) to verify ID authenticity. A faked card would be instantly detected.

Think of Biometric ID as a system, not just a card. Once implemented our illegal migrant problem will soon be ended.

And as we all know, credit cards are never faked or stolen and used by the wrong people....

Employers are already required to do various things with employees that some fail to do, such as with people who are paid under the table. I'm not saying a national ID couldn't prevent some illegals from working, but all? I don't think so.

And what is the plan when, inevitably, the central data storage is breached? If this card is a requirement for employment, and one's information is hacked and altered, would that mean a person could not be employed anywhere? That seems to be what you are suggesting. It wouldn't even have to involve identity theft; a malicious hacker could simply alter people's information to prevent them from working.

The previous comments don't even address the overreach involved in the government forcing law-abiding citizens to hand over their fingerprints, retinal scans, DNA information, or whatever biometric data is used.

I'm not sure why you'd trust the federal government to effectively use the information in a biometric ID system, as well as not abusing that information.

 

[badger2]

State-sponsored fascism begins when the state requires an address, and is how veterans in Eugene, Oregon ended up unable to vote. Wisconsin non-driver ID card requires proof of address as well as proof of SS number, which is the federal-level link that carries most of the burden of contradiction.

 

[badger2]

We experienced how the game is played to skirt ID contradictions in Wisconsin. Proof of address is a stipulation, though the Oregon vets we mentioned were living in their vehicles on the street. One potential renting situation came with the offer that the landlord was willing to overlook the lack of legal identification in lieu of moving into the apartment.

Immigrants, as long as they can pay, may also be able to side-step ID contradictions, at least in Wisconsin.