[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Gadawg73]

The solution to the Bush debt is very simple and obvious.

Business growth. Improvements in who and how businesses are run. Accountability of executives for growth, not laying people off and sending their jobs overseas. A return to competent, accountable management.

Clintonomics.

No job has ever "been sent" overseas.
YOU demanded they leave when you buy the shoes on your feet right now. You have a choice and YOU chose to have the shoes made in another country where someone with a 4th grade education can be taught to make them.
Called a global economy where an American worker with a high school diploma that wants $25 a hour in wages and benefits as a "living wage" CAN NOT compete with the competition of that Chinaman with a 4th grade education making the shoes.
Add in the anti business climate of the current administration, the high taxes and the growth of the moocher class no way YOU will pay $160 for a pair of shoes you now pay $45 for made in China.
This is a good thing as Americans need to get off their asses, educate themselves in the tech jobs where there is massive growth and fill the millions of jobs we have now unfilled in HVAC, plumbing, tool and die, auto mechanics and 3 dozen other technical jobs taught at vocational schools.
Or sit and cry about how it is unfair that someone that educates themselves in what the economy here DEMANDS, finds a job that the consumer DEMANDS and from working their ass off makes a dollar more than you.

Bull shit. When a company like GM, shuts down a plant in Ohio and opens a plant in Mexico making the exact same parts, maybe the job didn't go "overseas" but the jobs sure as hell left the country.

And just where are those millions of jobs in the construction, tool and die and auto mechanics fields. How do people get trained for them and who pays for that training. Or is the training one of those "freebies" you right wingers get so upset about? Then you all would be complaining about how those leeches are getting free training. Or bitching about the fact they can't borrow money to pay for their own training.

So tell all how that training for jobs works. There are not many companies out there offering apprenticeships anymore.

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

 

[Gadawg73]

No job has ever "been sent" overseas.
YOU demanded they leave when you buy the shoes on your feet right now. You have a choice and YOU chose to have the shoes made in another country where someone with a 4th grade education can be taught to make them.
Called a global economy where an American worker with a high school diploma that wants $25 a hour in wages and benefits as a "living wage" CAN NOT compete with the competition of that Chinaman with a 4th grade education making the shoes.
Add in the anti business climate of the current administration, the high taxes and the growth of the moocher class no way YOU will pay $160 for a pair of shoes you now pay $45 for made in China.
This is a good thing as Americans need to get off their asses, educate themselves in the tech jobs where there is massive growth and fill the millions of jobs we have now unfilled in HVAC, plumbing, tool and die, auto mechanics and 3 dozen other technical jobs taught at vocational schools.
Or sit and cry about how it is unfair that someone that educates themselves in what the economy here DEMANDS, finds a job that the consumer DEMANDS and from working their ass off makes a dollar more than you.

What customers DEMAND is what companies offer. Customers don't design products. The fact that American business leadership has lost the handle on innovation, and can only think of me too products at costs that can only be met by starvation wages, is the problem.

When the fat cats in the front office get off their butts and realize that their job is to grow, satisfy more customers, and the only way to do that is proud, inspired, capable employees, then we will get back to the American dream.

Growth. The business of business. What conservatives killed. Can be resuscitated.

We, the people need to hold people who call themselves leaders and demand lavish pay, accountable for something beyond the failure that you describe.

You are an ignoramus.

No, he is a dumb ass partisan hack.

 

[RKMBrown]

What customers DEMAND is what companies offer. Customers don't design products. The fact that American business leadership has lost the handle on innovation, and can only think of me too products at costs that can only be met by starvation wages, is the problem.

When the fat cats in the front office get off their butts and realize that their job is to grow, satisfy more customers, and the only way to do that is proud, inspired, capable employees, then we will get back to the American dream.

Growth. The business of business. What conservatives killed. Can be resuscitated.

We, the people need to hold people who call themselves leaders and demand lavish pay, accountable for something beyond the failure that you describe.

You are an ignoramus.

And you claim to be one of the failed business leaders with zero comprehension of how economies really work.

That is a lie, and you are a lying piece of shit. Completely incapable of telling the truth on any subject.

 

[PMZ]

No job has ever "been sent" overseas.
YOU demanded they leave when you buy the shoes on your feet right now. You have a choice and YOU chose to have the shoes made in another country where someone with a 4th grade education can be taught to make them.
Called a global economy where an American worker with a high school diploma that wants $25 a hour in wages and benefits as a "living wage" CAN NOT compete with the competition of that Chinaman with a 4th grade education making the shoes.
Add in the anti business climate of the current administration, the high taxes and the growth of the moocher class no way YOU will pay $160 for a pair of shoes you now pay $45 for made in China.
This is a good thing as Americans need to get off their asses, educate themselves in the tech jobs where there is massive growth and fill the millions of jobs we have now unfilled in HVAC, plumbing, tool and die, auto mechanics and 3 dozen other technical jobs taught at vocational schools.
Or sit and cry about how it is unfair that someone that educates themselves in what the economy here DEMANDS, finds a job that the consumer DEMANDS and from working their ass off makes a dollar more than you.

Bull shit. When a company like GM, shuts down a plant in Ohio and opens a plant in Mexico making the exact same parts, maybe the job didn't go "overseas" but the jobs sure as hell left the country.

And just where are those millions of jobs in the construction, tool and die and auto mechanics fields. How do people get trained for them and who pays for that training. Or is the training one of those "freebies" you right wingers get so upset about? Then you all would be complaining about how those leeches are getting free training. Or bitching about the fact they can't borrow money to pay for their own training.

So tell all how that training for jobs works. There are not many companies out there offering apprenticeships anymore.

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

Sure. The problems with business leadership are customers and the American electorate.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

 

[PMZ]

You are an ignoramus.

And you claim to be one of the failed business leaders with zero comprehension of how economies really work.

That is a lie, and you are a lying piece of shit. Completely incapable of telling the truth on any subject.

You can't stand the truth.

 

[zeke]

No job has ever "been sent" overseas.
YOU demanded they leave when you buy the shoes on your feet right now. You have a choice and YOU chose to have the shoes made in another country where someone with a 4th grade education can be taught to make them.
Called a global economy where an American worker with a high school diploma that wants $25 a hour in wages and benefits as a "living wage" CAN NOT compete with the competition of that Chinaman with a 4th grade education making the shoes.
Add in the anti business climate of the current administration, the high taxes and the growth of the moocher class no way YOU will pay $160 for a pair of shoes you now pay $45 for made in China.
This is a good thing as Americans need to get off their asses, educate themselves in the tech jobs where there is massive growth and fill the millions of jobs we have now unfilled in HVAC, plumbing, tool and die, auto mechanics and 3 dozen other technical jobs taught at vocational schools.
Or sit and cry about how it is unfair that someone that educates themselves in what the economy here DEMANDS, finds a job that the consumer DEMANDS and from working their ass off makes a dollar more than you.

Bull shit. When a company like GM, shuts down a plant in Ohio and opens a plant in Mexico making the exact same parts, maybe the job didn't go "overseas" but the jobs sure as hell left the country.

And just where are those millions of jobs in the construction, tool and die and auto mechanics fields. How do people get trained for them and who pays for that training. Or is the training one of those "freebies" you right wingers get so upset about? Then you all would be complaining about how those leeches are getting free training. Or bitching about the fact they can't borrow money to pay for their own training.

So tell all how that training for jobs works. There are not many companies out there offering apprenticeships anymore.

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

More horseshit. GM was on a union busting program for a long time. I can afford a car made by union workers. How about you? You ever notice that the car companies coming into this country pay almost union scale. You know why that is? Fuk no you have no clue.

And calling GM retirees fat and lazy seems to make you either jealous or just a fucked up individual. Which is it?

How low has the Georgia UE number dropped. You know, with all those HVAC jobs and all those apprenticeships. And what is HOPE. Is that another one of the government programs giving away money? Thought you all hated those programs.

 

[RKMBrown]

Your cures are what caused America's economic problems to begin with. And slowed Europe's recover from the Bush Great Recession. Only fools would fall for any of that again.

Business leaders need to come in from their country clubs, sell their yachts and get to work earning their lavish pay.

Economic growth is the only solution. If the present business crew can't do it, I'm sure that we can find leaders who can.

Liar. My proposal has never been done. Never.

There's a reason for that. It's merely a scheme to make the poor poorer and therefore supportive of conservative's march to create a banana republic from the largest economy in the world.

You are nothing but a piece of shit liar. First you say the 50% is not there, then you say it's been tried before, now you agree it's never been tried before because it's designed to create a banana republic.

The scheme would work just fine. Your problem is your ability to think is no longer above the level of a cockroach's ability to think.

 

[RKMBrown]

And you claim to be one of the failed business leaders with zero comprehension of how economies really work.

That is a lie, and you are a lying piece of shit. Completely incapable of telling the truth on any subject.

You can't stand the truth.

I can't stand lying pieces of shit like you, and you don't speak for me prick.

 

[PMZ]

If you ever want to rid your house of conservatives, and who doesn't, just speak the 'A' word. Accountability. It has the same effect as a cross to a werewolf. They run, screaming.

It's fun to watch and oh, so useful.

 

[RKMBrown]

If you ever want to rid your house of conservatives, and who doesn't, just speak the 'A' word. Accountability. It has the same effect as a cross to a werewolf. They run, screaming.

It's fun to watch and oh, so useful.

Troll.

 

[Gadawg73]

Bull shit. When a company like GM, shuts down a plant in Ohio and opens a plant in Mexico making the exact same parts, maybe the job didn't go "overseas" but the jobs sure as hell left the country.

And just where are those millions of jobs in the construction, tool and die and auto mechanics fields. How do people get trained for them and who pays for that training. Or is the training one of those "freebies" you right wingers get so upset about? Then you all would be complaining about how those leeches are getting free training. Or bitching about the fact they can't borrow money to pay for their own training.

So tell all how that training for jobs works. There are not many companies out there offering apprenticeships anymore.

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

Sure. The problems with business leadership are customers and the American electorate.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Where did I say that you liar?

 

[PMZ]

I doubt if Brown's claims of businesses success are true

 

[Gadawg73]

Bull shit. When a company like GM, shuts down a plant in Ohio and opens a plant in Mexico making the exact same parts, maybe the job didn't go "overseas" but the jobs sure as hell left the country.

And just where are those millions of jobs in the construction, tool and die and auto mechanics fields. How do people get trained for them and who pays for that training. Or is the training one of those "freebies" you right wingers get so upset about? Then you all would be complaining about how those leeches are getting free training. Or bitching about the fact they can't borrow money to pay for their own training.

So tell all how that training for jobs works. There are not many companies out there offering apprenticeships anymore.

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

More horseshit. GM was on a union busting program for a long time. I can afford a car made by union workers. How about you? You ever notice that the car companies coming into this country pay almost union scale. You know why that is? Fuk no you have no clue.

And calling GM retirees fat and lazy seems to make you either jealous or just a fucked up individual. Which is it?

How low has the Georgia UE number dropped. You know, with all those HVAC jobs and all those apprenticeships. And what is HOPE. Is that another one of the government programs giving away money? Thought you all hated those programs.

GM spent 5 billion on health care costs in 2008 and you claim those costs were for a healthy retirement population?
Got it.

 

[PMZ]

It is YOUR responsibility to train yourself so quit making excuses and get off your ass.
GM was forced BY YOU to go to Mexico as you demand a car that YOU can afford.
The massive benefit program for the fat and lazy GM retirees ate up ALL of the money allocated for health benefits so GM goes bankrupt.
Tell is why did GM go bankrupt? Why was that? How can other car companies come here and make a PROFIT yet GM goes bankrupt.
Econ 101 is available at your local community college.
In Georgia and many states the vocational training is 100% either government loan or in Georgia most all of it is paid for by HOPE.
4th year average for HVAC tech in Ga. now is over 45K. Not a bad wage for a 22 year old.

Sure. The problems with business leadership are customers and the American electorate.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Where did I say that you liar?

Which Alzheimers unit are you posting from?

 

[Gadawg73]

HOPE is from the lottery money, not one cent of government money.
Friend of my son who was raised not to be a whiny bitch went to HVAC tech school at age 18 in 2004. Graduated with a certification which is what you get, apprenticeship is 1940s union gobbly gook, and started at $12 a hour at age 19. Within 2 years he was making almost twice that. He moved to Florida where the demand for HVAC techs is soaring. He made 70K last year as in the summer months he can make as much as $2000+ a week easy just doing maintenance service calls.
Same with plumbing, auto mechanics, tool and die and dozens of tech jobs.
Or sit on one's ass and expect SOMEONE ELSE to give you an apprenticeship, training and help.
Not opposed to European style apprenticeship programs where they CLASSIFY you in high school as to your skill set. How do you think the left would take to that here?

 

[Gadawg73]

Sure. The problems with business leadership are customers and the American electorate.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Where did I say that you liar?

Which Alzheimers unit are you posting from?

Is that all you have?
Whenever the left is beat they first twist, distort and change the subject.
They next call names like a 5th grader.

 

[PMZ]

But, if I'm wrong, he's a fine example of businesses leaders who may have enriched themselves, but only at the expense of everyone else. Wealth sewers, not creators.

His problem is that he knows little about economics, and it's mostly wrong.

 

[PMZ]

Where did I say that you liar?

Which Alzheimers unit are you posting from?

Is that all you have?
Whenever the left is beat they first twist, distort and change the subject.
They next call names like a 5th grader.

Beat by the claim that you don't remember what was in your previous post??????

 

[Bern80]

I'm sick of business excusing their failure by putting on the 'we can't be successful without the help of government' act, a typical conservative whine. And your 'There is no tenent of conservatism that says the best way to have a successful business is to cut out all unncessary costs' is laughable.

You're right. If they need help from government to stay afloat they shouldn't be in business. I'm sure you like me, would agree we should not have bailed out the auto industry, right? However, if you think you're right about what conservatism says about how to best run a business, by all means prove it.

The reason that you can't fool me with your bullshit is that I've had too much experience with business. I've worked with intelligent CEOs with the ability to create growth and a recognition of the synergy between their company and the community in which they are permitted to operate. People who respect employees and customers and know where those people live and raise their families. People who know that innovative products and processes are what makes companies grow and they come from treating people like humans rather than interchangeable parts.

Fool you? I agree with almost all of that. I don't know why you want to continue to argue against a strawman on this.

The abject failure of conservatism is their inability to see beyond today and focus on yesterday. That makes them parasitic to success and harbingers of failure.

Wow! Projecting much? The evidence simply doesn't bare this out. The evidence is it is LIBERALS who can't see the consequences of their own actions. You advocate for crap like a living wage. Look at the mess we're already seeing with Obamacare. Look at how many people we have dependent on government in entitlement programs. All LIBERAL policies.

 

[PMZ]

HOPE is from the lottery money, not one cent of government money.
Friend of my son who was raised not to be a whiny bitch went to HVAC tech school at age 18 in 2004. Graduated with a certification which is what you get, apprenticeship is 1940s union gobbly gook, and started at $12 a hour at age 19. Within 2 years he was making almost twice that. He moved to Florida where the demand for HVAC techs is soaring. He made 70K last year as in the summer months he can make as much as $2000+ a week easy just doing maintenance service calls.
Same with plumbing, auto mechanics, tool and die and dozens of tech jobs.
Or sit on one's ass and expect SOMEONE ELSE to give you an apprenticeship, training and help.
Not opposed to European style apprenticeship programs where they CLASSIFY you in high school as to your skill set. How do you think the left would take to that here?

I worked for a Swiss company. They had a huge apprentice program compared to their size. It was essentially a partnership with canton (state) government. It was absolutely a win, win, win arrangement. The students, the company, the canton. The whole community.

But it was based on mutual respect and cooperation. Something that Rush and his friends have pretty much killed here.