Predictably, the left blame Bush for the disaster in France. Yeap.

[Asclepias]

No such thing as coincidence. All it takes is one Muslim here in the states to decide to do something. Since there are probably millions here I think it speaks to the fact that its the nut cases and not the religion. Just like it would not be fair to blame all christians for the nut case domestic terrorists we have here.

If 9/11, the bombings and shootings were Christians you better goddamn believe there would be screaming bloody murder by the left but since it's Islam all we get is moral equivalence, relativism, let's be careful, blah blah blah. The hypocrisy is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Why should I believe that? Just because you say so?

There are plenty of nutcases that commit crimes in the name of christianity. Hell this country was founded and built on that principle.

That's my point. The left cannot draw any distinctions. It's too hard. The right realizes that Christians aren't flying planes into buildings and causing the problems. The the left, a few dead at the hands of a Christian nut is the same as the many thousands at the hands of Muslims, sponsored by states and engaged in war all over the world.

Christians have killed way more that a few. They have wiped out civilizations. Dont you know your history?

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

 

[Iceweasel]

If 9/11, the bombings and shootings were Christians you better goddamn believe there would be screaming bloody murder by the left but since it's Islam all we get is moral equivalence, relativism, let's be careful, blah blah blah. The hypocrisy is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Why should I believe that? Just because you say so?

There are plenty of nutcases that commit crimes in the name of christianity. Hell this country was founded and built on that principle.

That's my point. The left cannot draw any distinctions. It's too hard. The right realizes that Christians aren't flying planes into buildings and causing the problems. The the left, a few dead at the hands of a Christian nut is the same as the many thousands at the hands of Muslims, sponsored by states and engaged in war all over the world.

Christians have killed way more that a few. They have wiped out civilizations. Dont you know your history?

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

I made it clear. You can't think.

 

[Asclepias]

Why should I believe that? Just because you say so?

There are plenty of nutcases that commit crimes in the name of christianity. Hell this country was founded and built on that principle.

That's my point. The left cannot draw any distinctions. It's too hard. The right realizes that Christians aren't flying planes into buildings and causing the problems. The the left, a few dead at the hands of a Christian nut is the same as the many thousands at the hands of Muslims, sponsored by states and engaged in war all over the world.

Christians have killed way more that a few. They have wiped out civilizations. Dont you know your history?

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

I made it clear. You can't think.

Doesnt matter what you made clear. You dont have any authority to determine what time period is or isnt allowed.

 

[Iceweasel]

That's my point. The left cannot draw any distinctions. It's too hard. The right realizes that Christians aren't flying planes into buildings and causing the problems. The the left, a few dead at the hands of a Christian nut is the same as the many thousands at the hands of Muslims, sponsored by states and engaged in war all over the world.

Christians have killed way more that a few. They have wiped out civilizations. Dont you know your history?

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

I made it clear. You can't think.

Doesnt matter what you made clear. You dont have any authority to determine what time period is or isnt allowed.

There it is again. You can't discern today's problems from those a thousand years ago. I made it clear, you said I didn't. Now it doesn't matter.

 

[Asclepias]

Christians have killed way more that a few. They have wiped out civilizations. Dont you know your history?

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

I made it clear. You can't think.

Doesnt matter what you made clear. You dont have any authority to determine what time period is or isnt allowed.

There it is again. You can't discern today's problems from those a thousand years ago. I made it clear, you said I didn't. Now it doesn't matter.

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

 

[Meathead]

Like I said, liberals cannot draw distinctions. The years 2014 and 1014 make no difference. It's all the same.

There is no need to draw distinctions unless you control what context and time the discussion addresses. You dont so I can go all the way back to the beginnings of Christianity if I chose.

I made it clear. You can't think.

Doesnt matter what you made clear. You dont have any authority to determine what time period is or isnt allowed.

There it is again. You can't discern today's problems from those a thousand years ago. I made it clear, you said I didn't. Now it doesn't matter.

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

We want jungle bunny civilizations. Forget current affairs!

 

[Mertex]

(snip)
Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

There are other sources that deny that. So, how do you know which one is telling the truth? There are millions of Muslims living in America.....if the source you are providing is true, why aren't they killing Christians?


Someone said, "Your Quran says to kill all the Jews and Christians..", how do we answer harsh question and attacks against Islam?

This is absolutely not true and it is quite easy to prove.

The Quran still exists today just as it did at the time of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. You see, he never did learn how to read or write, so he memorized the entire Quran from the angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic) and then he passed on this recitation (Quran) to his companions and they in turn passed it on to the next generation and this practice continues even today, reciting by memory and then passing it on to the next generations. And by the way, it is exactly the same from anywhere it is recited in the world.

We know the Quran orders believers to fight in combat against those who are the oppressors, aggressors and terrorists and those who are assaulting and killing the innocent men, women and children. But it gives out clear orders - NOT TO Fight against those who are not fighting against you...


"Now let us correct some mistakes in the 'question' itself. There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.

Now here is the answer -

The word used most often in Quran, that is so often mistranslated as kill; slay; or slaughter is not jihad, it is Qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat.

Naturally, just as here in the U.S. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the Tafsir and explanations by top scholars today.

Scholars of Quran tell us the verses dealing with this topic are specific and not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. The early Muslims had been driven out of their homes and turned out into the desert to starve. After finally, relocating in Medina, verses came in Quran instructing them to make hajj (pilgrimage) back to Makkah. Finding their way blocked and after several years of making agreements and treaties that the others continually broke, the Muslims were at last, told they could now fight in combat against the tyrants who had so horribly mistreated and abused them in the past. However, this would only be acceptable to Allah if they remained within very specific limitations. The word "Qital" in Arabic in this instance refers to "combat" rather than what some have used "kill" because the word "kill" is far to general, while the word "combat" appropriately describes what is intended by the usage in this passage. Allah Knows Best.

It should also be noted the usage of the word "Fitnah" in the same verse denotes a horrible condition, not unlike what we find today when there is terrorism and tyranny against the moral and just society at large. It would be easy to properly understand the meaning as, "Engage them in combat, even killing them, until the state of "Fitnah" (terrorism) no longer exists in the society and people are free to worship Allah by their choice."

We can see these verse are not designed to promote terrorism, but rather these are very orders from Above to the Muslims to be the first of those who stand out aggressively against all forms of terrorism and oppression.

Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Allah ordered believers in the Quran to wage combat against terrorism - 14 centuries ago. And the "struggle against oppression, terrorism and tyranny" in the Arabic language, it is called, "Jihad."

I tell them, "Islam declared the WAR ON TERRORISM - over 1,400 years ago!"

We pray to Allah to make it easy for all of us to find the correct meanings and teachings of Islam and allow us to share Islam with others, and forgive our mistakes and grant us His Paradise, Ameen.

www.AboutJihad.com

Sheikh Yusuf Estes

Just Ask Islam - Does Islam Say Kill The Infidels

That's total bullshit. The Quran quite clearly commands Muslims to kill non-believers. It also gives Muslims dispensation to lie to infidels.

Well, I see you fail to answer my questions. If you really believe that all Muslims are commanded to kill non-believers, why aren't they doing it? Also, most conservatives supported Bush on attacking Iraq and used the excuse that he was killing his own "innocent" people......Muslims.....so why do you support Bush's invasion of Iraq to help Muslims if you really believe they are all evil?

Here is the website of a Muslim who says that Sheikh Yusuf Estes is going to hell for telling lies about the Quran:

Be Warned Against Yusuf Estes 8217 alarmingly dangerous Errors in Creed 8216 Aqeedah and increasingly brazen invitation to the Hellfire Ahlul-Bidah Wal Hawa

"Obviously, knowledge is Not to be taken from this ignoramus Yusuf Estes who – in addition to making many abominable statements regarding the Qur`an – deviantly believes that the religion is not to be acted upon these days!"​

But, if they all lie, like you say.....how do you know which one to believe?

 

[Mertex]

I guess that's your chicken way of saying you can't find it? Bwahahaha......

Is that your chickenshit way of denying the obvious? I'm not here to educate your lazy dumb ass. You asked for quotes, there they are.

I asked for a link.....obviously you are unable to provide one, and you are not in any position to educate anyone, moron. So, unless you can back up what you say, your comments are "Epic fail"!

That has to be the lamest weasel ever posted in this forum.

No, that would be you.....

NOT.

Yep.....must assuredly.

 

[Iceweasel]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

 

[Meathead]

If there are so many bad apples, there must be something wrong with the orchid.

 

[Meathead]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

Stop with the "libtard" idiocies. Liberals make fools of themselves without them.

 

[Iceweasel]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

Stop with the "libtard" idiocies. Liberals make fools of themselves without them.

I'm not the one posting libtard idiocies. I'm the one pointing them out.

 

[ninja007]

yep because there were no terrorist attacks before Iraq.

List of terrorist incidents - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Mertex]

I guess that's your chicken way of saying you can't find it? Bwahahaha......

Is that your chickenshit way of denying the obvious? I'm not here to educate your lazy dumb ass. You asked for quotes, there they are.

I asked for a link.....obviously you are unable to provide one, and you are not in any position to educate anyone, moron. So, unless you can back up what you say, your comments are "Epic fail"!

That has to be the lamest weasel ever posted in this forum.

So what is the conservative suggestion for how to deal with this belief that every Muslim is out to kill every Christian? What do you think should be done? In one instance you (conservatives) are whining that Obama's drones are killing innocent Muslims, and now you are wanting to condemn all Muslims. Which is it, Mr. Smart Weasel?

For one thing, we shouldn't be allowing these savages to immigrate to the United States. We should deport all the ones here who are not citizens.

But many Muslims are American citizens.....since you claim their religion commands them to kill non-believers of Islam, that won't solve the problem as the ones that are citizens still practice out of the same Quoran.



Aren't Republicans the ones that are holding up Immigration reform?

 

[Iceweasel]

Is that your chickenshit way of denying the obvious? I'm not here to educate your lazy dumb ass. You asked for quotes, there they are.

I asked for a link.....obviously you are unable to provide one, and you are not in any position to educate anyone, moron. So, unless you can back up what you say, your comments are "Epic fail"!

That has to be the lamest weasel ever posted in this forum.

So what is the conservative suggestion for how to deal with this belief that every Muslim is out to kill every Christian? What do you think should be done? In one instance you (conservatives) are whining that Obama's drones are killing innocent Muslims, and now you are wanting to condemn all Muslims. Which is it, Mr. Smart Weasel?

For one thing, we shouldn't be allowing these savages to immigrate to the United States. We should deport all the ones here who are not citizens.

But many Muslims are American citizens.....since you claim their religion commands them to kill non-believers of Islam, that won't solve the problem as the ones that are citizens still practice out of the same Quoran.

Aren't Republicans the ones that are holding up Immigration reform?

Immigration reform by the Democrats is what? Here's some money, go vote Democrat for some more? Most Muslims are not violent but how do you account for all the violence?

 

[Asclepias]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

I couldnt care less of how or why libtard was coined. Your descriptions of how intelligent people think are the results of a puerile mindset. I never claimed you excused anything. I just pointed out that it occurred. You didnt like that because you want to claim Islam is the problem instead of the nutcases. I have lived next door to a Muslim now for almost 10 years and he has never made an attempt on my life.

Yes the US and European powers history of meddling in other peoples affairs is what is causing this. How dumb can you be not to understand that?

 

[Iceweasel]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

I couldnt care less of how or why libtard was coined. Your descriptions of how intelligent people think are the results of a puerile mindset. I never claimed you excused anything. I just pointed out that it occurred. You didnt like that because you want to claim Islam is the problem instead of the nutcases. I have lived next to Muslim now for almost 10 years and he has never made an attempt on my life.

Yes the US and European powers history of meddling in other peoples affairs is what is causing this. How dumb can you be not to understand that?

I didn't say all Muslims were violent. Your over reaction isn't necessary. Pointing out middle age bullshit has nothing to do with the problems today. Are you carrying out a grudge by your medieval ancestors? I'm not.

I don't think the violent Muslims are either, they are doing it because of what is happening TODAY. Their feelings get hurt so they want to kill the offending party. Christianity gets routinely lampooned and insulted with no threat of retribution but somehow that minor detail escapes you. How is it a middle east problem if they are going ape shit in France and England because they got butthurt over a cartoon? Seriously, wtf dude?

 

[Asclepias]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

I couldnt care less of how or why libtard was coined. Your descriptions of how intelligent people think are the results of a puerile mindset. I never claimed you excused anything. I just pointed out that it occurred. You didnt like that because you want to claim Islam is the problem instead of the nutcases. I have lived next to Muslim now for almost 10 years and he has never made an attempt on my life.

Yes the US and European powers history of meddling in other peoples affairs is what is causing this. How dumb can you be not to understand that?

I didn't say all Muslims were violent. Your over reaction isn't necessary. Pointing out middle age bullshit has nothing to do with the problems today. Are you carrying out a grudge by your medieval ancestors? I'm not.

I don't think the violent Muslims are either, they are doing it because of what is happening TODAY. Their feelings get hurt so they want to kill the offending party. Christianity gets routinely lampooned and insulted with no threat of retribution but somehow that minor detail escapes you. How is it a middle east problem if they are going ape shit in France and England because they got butthurt over a cartoon? Seriously, wtf dude?

You didnt have to say it. Your post made it clear exactly what you were doing.

The the left, a few dead at the hands of a Christian nut is the same as the many thousands at the hands of Muslims, sponsored by states and engaged in war all over the world.

Pointing out what Christians have done in the middle ages and presently is very much a factor in the terrorism. If you want to compare killings lets total them up. I dont over react. I just pegged you. I am neither Islamic or Christian so I dont have dog in the fight. Not much escapes me. How Christians react to insults is not relevant since the most powerful nations on earth are Christians. They can afford not to react insults.

 

[Iceweasel]

Pointing out what Christians have done in the middle ages and presently is very much a factor in the terrorism. If you want to compare killings lets total them up. I dont over react. I just pegged you. I am neither Islamic or Christian so I dont have dog in the fight. Not much escapes me. How Christians react to insults is not relevant since the most powerful nations on earth are Christians. They can afford not to react insults.

You've made statements without supporting them.

 

[Mertex]

There is your problem. You dont understand that history is a precursor of the present. You cant get to the present without understanding the past. Typical conservative failure at logic.

If we took your approach then we would have to pretend the US has never meddled in the middle east.

This is why the term "libtard" was coined. I didn't excuse behavior 1,000 years ago, no need to, it isn't relevant to Muslims killing thousands of people today that offend their bronze age beliefs. Muslims move into countries and kill and you think the problem is the US involvement in the middle east?

The concept of logic is outside of your grasp.

Stop with the "libtard" idiocies. Liberals make fools of themselves without them.

And what is your excuse for making a fool of yourself?