President Bush, Iraq and the Election

[Avatar4321]

I agree that we were justified in going into afganistan and so did much of the world. But Iraq was differant - I realy dont have to grant the extremest godlike statuse, we have entire country's that hate our gut's, like you say-""Currently Iran, Pakistan, Gaza and West Bank, Chechnya, Sauds, Yemen, ets... ""
But then do we have the rite to wage war with anyone we want soely on the basis they hate us and would like to see us go doun? I dont' think we should want to control the world.

Doesnt matter to me if France hates our guts for liberating Iraq. Does it affect anyone else? Atleast the Iraqi's are grateful for the most part.

 

[dilloduck]

I agree that we were justified in going into afganistan and so did much of the world. But Iraq was differant - I realy dont have to grant the extremest godlike statuse, we have entire country's that hate our gut's, like you say-""Currently Iran, Pakistan, Gaza and West Bank, Chechnya, Sauds, Yemen, ets... ""
But then do we have the rite to wage war with anyone we want soely on the basis they hate us and would like to see us go doun? I dont' think we should want to control the world.

they want to kill you and everyone you care about--is that a good reason or do you want to take your chances?

 

[dumphauler]

they want to kill you and everyone you care about--is that a good reason or do you want to take your chances?

I say to take prudent action for our defence, infiltrate them, try to do the rite thing's as policy- But we can't just keep Invading , we can hardly keep our people in Iraq now- they like twinkie's alot better than dieing. now think about invading iran,syria and occupying them for awile- Or where you going to bomb them out of exsistance? could your live with yourself after that?

 

[Avatar4321]

I say to take prudent action for our defence, infiltrate them, try to do the rite thing's as policy- But we can't just keep Invading , we can hardly keep our people in Iraq now- they like twinkie's alot better than dieing. now think about invading iran,syria and occupying them for awile- Or where you going to bomb them out of exsistance? could your live with yourself after that?

Why on earth cant we keep our people in Iraq? They are doing fine. its not like anyone could attack them and force them to leave. no one has the firepower to do that. we have promised to leave when the Iraqis ask us. That probably wont be for a long while. But why on earth do we need to leave? We still havent left Germany and Japan yet. Kerry was whining about Bush's ideas of pulling some of the troops out of there like two or three weeks ago.

 

[dilloduck]

I say to take prudent action for our defence, infiltrate them, try to do the rite thing's as policy- But we can't just keep Invading , we can hardly keep our people in Iraq now- they like twinkie's alot better than dieing. now think about invading iran,syria and occupying them for awile- Or where you going to bomb them out of exsistance? could your live with yourself after that?

FIRST of all---to do any of this one has to be ALIVE. 3,000 innocent people were not given any choice as to how to fight this war. They were murdered!

We maybe on a political hold right now(which I disagree with). Hide and watch the US kick ass !!!!

 

[padisha emperor]

Why on earth cant we keep our people in Iraq? They are doing fine. its not like anyone could attack them and force them to leave. no one has the firepower to do that. we have promised to leave when the Iraqis ask us. That probably wont be for a long while. But why on earth do we need to leave? We still havent left Germany and Japan yet. Kerry was whining about Bush's ideas of pulling some of the troops out of there like two or three weeks ago.

No comapraison between Iraq and Germany/Japan.

THe US troops are in Iraq to protect iraqi people - or at least try to - and the US interests.
THe US troops in Germany are not here to protect the german people. the Bundeswehr do it very well...THe US troops in Germany are here because during the 50's USA sent troops in Europe to hinder the USSR's threat.
These troops are still here thanks to NATO. I believe that even in UK there are US troops. In Italy too. So, your argument about Germany and Japan is worthless.

US stay in Japan also because it is a strategic place, the door of Asia. Not to help the japanese people.

 

[dilloduck]

No comapraison between Iraq and Germany/Japan.

THe US troops are in Iraq to protect iraqi people - or at least try to - and the US interests.
THe US troops in Germany are not here to protect the german people. the Bundeswehr do it very well...THe US troops in Germany are here because during the 50's USA sent troops in Europe to hinder the USSR's threat.
These troops are still here thanks to NATO. I believe that even in UK there are US troops. In Italy too. So, your argument about Germany and Japan is worthless.

US stay in Japan also because it is a strategic place, the door of Asia. Not to help the japanese people.

US force in Japan is of no help to Japan?????????

 

[padisha emperor]

You see the less important of my message to avoid the rest, to avoid the truth who hurts you.

I meant that US troops were in Japan first to protect US interests, to have USAF bases, like Kadena AFB. It is a strategic place, really important. With such bases, you can spy N-Korea with SR-71 or anything else. You can also prevent an attack, faster than if yourtroops were on USA territories.

I believe that Japan has an Army. I know the consequence of WWII on it, but now, the Japan Army is able to assure the japanese's security.
(I believe even that one of you think hat Jqapan should have nuke weapons...)


the fact is that US army in Iraq and US army in Japan or in Germany, this is not the same thing.

So, you can not compare the occupation of Iraq with the presence of US soldiers on the japanese or german soil.

For Germany it is easier to see it : US troops are in the most part of European countries, the NATO countries, except France.

 

[dilloduck]

You see the less important of my message to avoid the rest, to avoid the truth who hurts you.

I meant that US troops were in Japan first to protect US interests, to have USAF bases, like Kadena AFB. It is a strategic place, really important. With such bases, you can spy N-Korea with SR-71 or anything else. You can also prevent an attack, faster than if yourtroops were on USA territories.

I believe that Japan has an Army. I know the consequence of WWII on it, but now, the Japan Army is able to assure the japanese's security.
(I believe even that one of you think hat Jqapan should have nuke weapons...)


the fact is that US army in Iraq and US army in Japan or in Germany, this is not the same thing.

So, you can not compare the occupation of Iraq with the presence of US soldiers on the japanese or german soil.

For Germany it is easier to see it : US troops are in the most part of European countries, the NATO countries, except France.

You don't need to tell me about Okinawa--I lived there. Right NOW the US protects Japan and US interests. AND---read that part. You apparently doubt the reasons for the US to do things and are caught up in
some priority issue. If you want to say we do it because it is in our interests I will agree with you. Do you agree that other countries are glad to have us ALSO protect thier interests?

 

[Zhukov]

No comapraison between Iraq and Germany/Japan.

Sure there is.

All three were liberated from tyrants. And when they were American soldiers were there.

THe US troops in Germany are not here to protect the german people.

But they were right up until 1991. It takes time, doesn't everything, but plans are already in the works to move the bulk of our forces that are stationed in Germany out of that country and closer to the middle east.

After the war an important reason so many troops stayed was because of the Soviets, though it is likely American troops would have remained there for a time regardless.

A democratic Iraq is threatened by it's neighbors no less than a democratic Germany was threatened by it's neighbors. Until Iran and Syria no longer pose a destabilizing effect on Iraq, American troops will remain.

Not to help the japanese people.

The day the Japanese people no longer desire our protection they need only ask us to leave. Until that day comes I would say that they at least think we're helping.

 

[padisha emperor]

You don't understand what I meant....first, it was in comparaison with Iraq.

US are still in Japan because for them it is an US military base.
Nevermind, forget Japan, and you will understand what I meant :

Avatar4321 said that US will not leave - maybe not - , and said that US troops were still in Germany.
He seems to think that US troops are still in Germany because it is the continuation of the WWII....But US are also in UK, in Italy, in Belgium, in Netherlands........................
So it is not the same thing.


You know, I don't care if US army stay 50 more years in Iraq. It would be hell for them- US soldiers - and you would know a 2nd Vietnam....
If this is your choice to saty here.....

 

[dilloduck]

You don't understand what I meant....first, it was in comparaison with Iraq.

US are still in Japan because for them it is an US military base.
Nevermind, forget Japan, and you will understand what I meant :

Avatar4321 said that US will not leave - maybe not - , and said that US troops were still in Germany.
He seems to think that US troops are still in Germany because it is the continuation of the WWII....But US are also in UK, in Italy, in Belgium, in Netherlands........................
So it is not the same thing.


You know, I don't care if US army stay 50 more years in Iraq. It would be hell for them- US soldiers - and you would know a 2nd Vietnam....
If this is your choice to saty here.....

I love it-----after all that it gets down to the fact that deep down in your heart you really don't care ???

 

[padisha emperor]

No,I lied. I care.
why ? because US troops occupied a sovereign country.
US were always against colonialism, but they do actually a new kind of colonialism.
>>attack a country, steal it ressources, occupation of the soil. And the next one...and the next one.....
Now in Iraq, don't tell me that the government could be against USA ? Why ? because : first, USA put a pro-US gov. And second, US will always watch at Iraq, to see if the gov is always pro-US, I mean a slave of USA.

And I care because if USA will stay in Iraq, lots of US soldiers would be killed. It is sad, and I care because I don't want to see some US guys dead during the never-ending occupation of Iraq

 

[dilloduck]

No,I lied. I care.
why ? because US troops occupied a sovereign country.
US were always against colonialism, but they do actually a new kind of colonialism.
>>attack a country, steal it ressources, occupation of the soil. And the next one...and the next one.....
Now in Iraq, don't tell me that the government could be against USA ? Why ? because : first, USA put a pro-US gov. And second, US will always watch at Iraq, to see if the gov is always pro-US, I mean a slave of USA.

And I care because if USA will stay in Iraq, lots of US soldiers would be killed. It is sad, and I care because I don't want to see some US guys dead during the never-ending occupation of Iraq

now really dish-----why is it they now I'm beginning to doubt YOUR motives?

 

[padisha emperor]

??
what does it mean ?

 

[dilloduck]

??
what does it mean ?

It means I really doubt you

 

[wade]

I believe that Japan has an Army. I know the consequence of WWII on it, but now, the Japan Army is able to assure the japanese's security.
(I believe even that one of you think that Japan should have nuke weapons...)

Ummm, Japan has a huge military by relative standards.

Selected Countries Military Budget
Country $Billions
------------------------
United States 399.1
Russia* 65.0
China* 47.0
Japan 42.6
United Kingdom 38.4
France 29.5
Germany 24.9
Saudi Arabia 21.3
Italy 19.4
India 15.6
South Korea 14.1
Brazil* 10.7
Taiwan* 10.7
Israel 10.6
Spain 8.4
Australia 7.6
Canada 7.6
Netherlands 6.6
Turkey 5.8
Mexico 5.9
Kuwait* 3.9
Ukraine 5.0
Iran* 4.8
Singapore 4.8
Sweden 4.5
Egypt* 4.4
Norway 3.8
Greece 3.5
Poland 3.5
Argentina* 3.3
United Arab Emirates* 3.1
Colombia* 2.9
Belgium 2.7
Pakistan* 2.6
Denmark 2.4
Vietnam 2.4
North Korea* 2.1
Czech Republic 1.6
Iraq* 1.4
Philippines 1.4
Portugal 1.3
Libya* 1.2
Hungary 1.1
Syria 1.0
Cuba* 0.8
Sudan* 0.6
Yugoslavia 0.7
Luxembourg 0.2

Figures are for latest year available, usually 2002. Expenditures are used in a few cases where official budgets are significantly lower than actual spending. The figure for the United States is from the annual budget request for Fiscal Year 2004.

* 2001 Funding

Table prepared by Center for Defense Information.

Sources: International Institute for Strategic Studies, Department of Defense

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/world-military-spending.cfm

As you can see, Japan is #4 in military spending. They have a substantial military - something most Americans are unaware of, they think Japan has had no significant military since WWII.

Wade.

 

[Avatar4321]

You don't understand what I meant....first, it was in comparaison with Iraq.

US are still in Japan because for them it is an US military base.
Nevermind, forget Japan, and you will understand what I meant :

Avatar4321 said that US will not leave - maybe not - , and said that US troops were still in Germany.
He seems to think that US troops are still in Germany because it is the continuation of the WWII....But US are also in UK, in Italy, in Belgium, in Netherlands........................
So it is not the same thing.


You know, I don't care if US army stay 50 more years in Iraq. It would be hell for them- US soldiers - and you would know a 2nd Vietnam....
If this is your choice to saty here.....

Who said anything about the troops staying in Germany and Japan because they were waging war there? They arent. However we were putting down insurgents after WW2 in both those nations much like we are doing in Iraq.

You missed my point. We still have troops deployed in both the countries. as you pointed out because we have military bases there. Do you think we arent going to have bases in Iraq? I mean we will be and offensive against Iran and Syria eventually, whether in a few years or in a decade. there is no reason to pull our troops out of Iraq at all. especially if the Iraqis dont want us to and there is little real reason to believe they do.

 

[padisha emperor]

Avatar, does it mean thta USA will have military bases in Iraq ?
Great job : oil + bases !
USA will become soon a great colonial country, like UK of France !

Selected Countries Military Budget
Country $Billions
------------------------
United States 399.1
Russia* 65.0
China* 47.0
Japan 42.6
United Kingdom 38.4
France 29.5
Germany 24.9
Saudi Arabia 21.3
Italy 19.4
India 15.6
South Korea 14.1
Brazil* 10.7
Taiwan* 10.7
Israel 10.6
Spain 8.4
Australia 7.6
Canada 7.6
Netherlands 6.6
Turkey 5.8
Mexico 5.9
Kuwait* 3.9
Ukraine 5.0
Iran* 4.8
Singapore 4.8
Sweden 4.5
Egypt* 4.4
Norway 3.8
Greece 3.5
Poland 3.5
Argentina* 3.3
United Arab Emirates* 3.1
Colombia* 2.9
Belgium 2.7
Pakistan* 2.6
Denmark 2.4
Vietnam 2.4
North Korea* 2.1
Czech Republic 1.6
Iraq* 1.4
Philippines 1.4
Portugal 1.3
Libya* 1.2
Hungary 1.1
Syria 1.0
Cuba* 0.8
Sudan* 0.6
Yugoslavia 0.7
Luxembourg 0.2

Figures are for latest year available, usually 2002. Expenditures are used in a few cases where official budgets are significantly lower than actual spending. The figure for the United States is from the annual budget request for Fiscal Year 2004.

* 2001 Funding

Table prepared by Center for Defense Information.

Sources: International Institute for Strategic Studies, Department of Defense

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/worl...ry-spending.cfm

So....before the war.....

It is not really a big budget for a country who "should have" a big army...isn't it ?
It can show that iraqi army was not so important and dangerous.
With a so little budget, the military research should be realy down......the developpment of new technologies too......
Even Kuwait spend more for his army...

 

[Zhukov]

He seems to think that US troops are still in Germany because it is the continuation of the WWII

He didn't say that. He didn't even imply it.