President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[Correll]

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2. German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?

German and Japanese people are free to consume but there is no consumer culture as there is in the US. Both countries have higher savings rates than the US. The Japanese government has tried to encourage more consumption but has largely failed. China is essentially a third world country. Per capita income is closer to that of a third world country.

In the 35 years since Reagan screwed up our tax rates to Pander to the riches, our rate of saving that


8 years of Clinton. 8 years of Obama. Yet no change in the trends.


The policies that are harming US are bi-partisan policies. Both republicans and democrats.


Explain to me why a higher rate of consuming has to mean consuming IMPORTS, and not domestically produced crap.

8 years of Clinton. 8 years of Obama. Yet no change in the trends.


The policies that are harming US are bi-partisan policies. Both republicans and democrats.


Explain to me why a higher rate of consuming has to mean consuming IMPORTS, and not domestically produced crap.

Blaming the consumption of imports on politicians is ridiculous. Americans, like every other population on earth, have a choice. They can buy American. No one is forcing them to buy imports. They buy imports because they’re cheaper. YOU, as in the US population, are the authors of your own misfortune.

Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.

When I bought my new sofa two years ago, I made a point of buying one that was made in Canada. I could have gone to a cheap discount store and bought an import for less, but I wanted something well built which will last. And I wanted to support Canadian companies.

Studies have routines shown that Canadians will pay a bit more if something is made in Canada. Americans don’t do that. They shop for the lowest possible price. Then they complain about their jobs being off-shored.

It’s not the government that shipped your jobs overseas, it’s American consumers in their quest for ever lower prices who are largely to blame.

Those consumers voted for Trump and his America First agenda, and the Trade Policy that comes with it.

The US has always valued cheap goods and relied on cheap labour over jobs for their citizens. Your economy was built on slave labour, then “guest workers” who could be shipped home when times got tough, and now illegal immigrants.

Until Americans start buying American, you’re going to have trade deficits, and off-shoring.

None of that is actually true.

 

[Correll]

The flaw, imo, is hidden in the details of a million pages of trade laws and regulations and subsidizes that effectively fixes the trade "game" against US.

It is a broad problem and Trump is addressing it with a broad solution.


These other nations, they didn't accidentally build trade barriers. They know what they need to do to fix it.


This is on them.


Or they can blow up world trade and see how they like that.

You really believe trumps going to do that to business and for workers?

I think Trump is the only one that even claimed he would try.

Oh yes Trump has no problem saying something that isn't true.

I saw this and thought of you

On Inauguration Day, President Trump stood in front of the U.S. Capitol and vowed that his “America First” agenda would bring jobs back to the United States.

“We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs,” he declared, adding: “We will follow two simple rules — buy American and hire American.”

Looking on from the front of the stage was Trump’s daughter Ivanka, the celebrity and fashion entrepreneur who would soon join him in the White House.

The first daughter’s cause would be improving the lives of working women, a theme she had developed at her clothing line. She also brought a direct link to the global economy the president was railing against — a connection that was playing out at that very moment on the Pacific coast.

As the Trumps stood on stage, a hulking container ship called the OOCL Ho Chi Minh City was pulling into the harbor of Long Beach, Calif., carrying around 500 pounds of foreign-made Ivanka Trump spandex-knit blouses.

Another 10 ships hauling Ivanka Trump-branded shoes, cardigans and leather handbags bound for the United States were floating in the north Pacific and Atlantic oceans and off the coasts of Malta, Malaysia, Japan, South Korea and Yemen.

Those global journeys — along with millions of pounds of Ivanka Trump products imported into the United States in more than 2,000 shipments since 2010 — illustrate how her business practices collide with some of the key principles she and her father have championed in the White House.

She talks about working women. Her father says “buy American.” We go inside Ivanka Inc.

The irony of a billionaire who has outsourced being the ONLY one who even says he would try, has been repeatedly discussed.


What point do you think that makes?

I don't think he has a problem with outsourcing. You probably think he wants to fix the rigged system. I don't.

He said he would. He's the only one that said he would.


Just because he did something in the past doesn't mean he won't do something else in the present or the near future.

 

[The Derp]

Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.

The increase to the tariffs will be passed on to consumers. American steel prices will also rise, not remain flat; that's not how these markets work.

Those consumers voted for Trump and his America First agenda, and the Trade Policy that comes with it.

These tariffs are not "America first"; there already are tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum. Raising tariffs never results in lower prices or protectionism because American manufacturers just raise their prices too. You're not creating demand for American steel when you raise tariffs on foreign steel. It's not an act of protectionism because American steelmakers just raise their prices too.

 

[The Derp]

I was responding to Franco's claim that our workers are poorly trained due to republicans.

Republicans refuse any job training programs because Republicans are regressives who want to drag our economy backwards, not forwards. Coal is dead and isn't coming back; the future lies in renewables (particularly wind and solar). We are ceding market share to foreign companies specifically because Conservative regressive policy dictates it.

We lost the solar cell market to Germany; we lost the solar panel market to China. We will lose the wind power/turbine market as well because while other governments spent money on R&D for new technologies going back 20 years, our investment in these markets is only recent to 2009, thanks to Obama. So we're late to the party now because you all were so determined to have a 19th-century energy policy.

So thanks for nothing.

He made that claim because he want's to blame American workers for our massive trade deficits.I blame Trade Policy, ours and our trade "partners", not our workers.

The trade deficit isn't the problem; the problem is that you've collected so much capital and wealth among the very top with the expectation it will trickle down. Guess what? It doesn't.

 

[Correll]

Politicians craft Trade policy. Putting this on Americans consumers is a dodge.

The increase to the tariffs will be passed on to consumers. American steel prices will also rise, not remain flat; that's not how these markets work.

Those consumers voted for Trump and his America First agenda, and the Trade Policy that comes with it.

These tariffs are not "America first"; there already are tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum. Raising tariffs never results in lower prices or protectionism because American manufacturers just raise their prices too. You're not creating demand for American steel when you raise tariffs on foreign steel. It's not an act of protectionism because American steelmakers just raise their prices too.

THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.

 

[The Derp]

THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.

They don't create jobs either for the exact same reason.

 

[Correll]

I was responding to Franco's claim that our workers are poorly trained due to republicans.

Republicans refuse any job training programs because Republicans are regressives who want to drag our economy backwards, not forwards. Coal is dead and isn't coming back; the future lies in renewables (particularly wind and solar). We are ceding market share to foreign companies specifically because Conservative regressive policy dictates it.

Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.


To say that Coal is dead is A. wrong, and B. stupid.


So wrong and stupid that it robs everything else you say of any credibility.

We lost the solar cell market to Germany; we lost the solar panel market to China. We will lose the wind power/turbine market as well because while other governments spent money on R&D for new technologies going back 20 years, our investment in these markets is only recent to 2009, thanks to Obama. So we're late to the party now because you all were so determined to have a 19th-century energy policy.

So thanks for nothing.

Growth of photovoltaics - Wikipedia



"The United States, inventor of modern solar PV, was the leader of installed capacity for many years. Based on preceding work by Swedish and German engineers, the American engineer Russell Ohl at Bell Labs patented the first modern solar cell in 1946.[44][45] It was also there at Bell Labs where the first practical c-silicon cell was developed in 1954.[46][47]Hoffman Electronics, the leading manufacturer of silicon solar cells in the 1950s and 1960s, improved on the cell's efficiency, produced solar radios, and equipped Vanguard I, the first solar powered satellite launched into orbit in 1958....


...In 1977 US-President Jimmy Carter installed solar hot water panels on the White House promoting solar energy[48]and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, originally named Solar Energy Research Institute was established at Golden, Colorado. In the 1980s and early 1990s, most photovoltaic modules were used in stand-alone power systems or powered consumer products such as watches, calculators and toys, but from around 1995, industry efforts have focused increasingly on developing grid-connected rooftop PV systems and power stations. By 1996, solar PV capacity in the US amounted to 77 megawatts–more than any other country in the world at the time. Then, Japan moved ahead."


1982 Reagan in office.

1996 Bill Clinton in office.

So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.

He made that claim because he want's to blame American workers for our massive trade deficits.I blame Trade Policy, ours and our trade "partners", not our workers.

The trade deficit isn't the problem; the problem is that you've collected so much capital and wealth among the very top with the expectation it will trickle down. Guess what? It doesn't.[/QUOTE]




Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal.


The Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.



The other side of this debate is the one that wants to continue what you are complaining about.

 

[basquebromance]

"Looking forward to 3:30 P.M. meeting today at the White House. We have to protect & build our Steel and Aluminum Industries while at the same time showing great flexibility and cooperation toward those that are real friends and treat us fairly on both trade and the military.

The U.S. is acting swiftly on Intellectual Property theft. We cannot allow this to happen as it has for many years!

China has been asked to develop a plan for the year of a One Billion Dollar reduction in their massive Trade Deficit with the United States. Our relationship with China has been a very good one, and we look forward to seeing what ideas they come back with. We must act soon!" - President Trump

 

[Correll]

THe goal is not lower prices but jobs.

They don't create jobs either for the exact same reason.

Really? Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?


Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?


Mmmm?

 

[Correll]

"Looking forward to 3:30 P.M. meeting today at the White House. We have to protect & build our Steel and Aluminum Industries while at the same time showing great flexibility and cooperation toward those that are real friends and treat us fairly on both trade and the military.

The U.S. is acting swiftly on Intellectual Property theft. We cannot allow this to happen as it has for many years!

China has been asked to develop a plan for the year of a One Billion Dollar reduction in their massive Trade Deficit with the United States. Our relationship with China has been a very good one, and we look forward to seeing what ideas they come back with. We must act soon!" - President Trump

One billion dollars? Out of 375 billion?



Not nearly enough.

 

[Dragonlady]

And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.

Trump said the tariff would only come off if we signed a new NAFTA deal. Trudeau said “No fucking way. We’ll retaliate with tariffs on produce and wine”. And Trump backed down, faster than cockroach scurrying out of the light.

“The Great Negotiator”! What a tool.

 

[The Derp]

Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.

And it's declining rapidly. What was the share of coal of world electricity production 10 years ago? It was much higher, wasn't it? So I want to know why you think you can get away with removing context in an argument that relies entirely on context? What is the share of coal in the US domestic market now vs. 10 years ago?

Coal isn't coming back. It's dying.

1982 Reagan in office.
1996 Bill Clinton in office.
So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.

Sigh...who holds the patents on solar cells? What country do they reside? Not the US; Germany and China. We don't hold the patents for solar cells, which are what makes solar panels work. Those patents are held overseas; we cannot manufacture solar cells without paying an exorbitant license fee to the patent holders, who reside overseas.

How is it possible you know less than nothing about this topic?

Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal.

I thought your goal was to increase the deficit and debt and collect more wealth in the hands of the few? Because that's the end result of the policies you support. A trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working and middle class was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which you opposed and in doing so, ceded the market and influence to China, who will now form trade deals individually with the nations that the TPP included. So you narrow-mindedly disadvantaged us in the global markets because of your stupid "America first" posturing and idiocy.

he Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.

It's not outsourcing or cheap labor that is killing jobs; it's automation and technology. Jobs are being lost to robots, not third world workers. Outsourcing isn't responsible for the recent loss of jobs; automation is. So unless your policy is to discourage automation and innovation, then you don't have a jobs policy in mind. All you have are reactionary policies that don't work.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Correll]

And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.

Trump said the tariff would only come off if we signed a new NAFTA deal. Trudeau said “No fucking way. We’ll retaliate with tariffs on produce and wine”. And Trump backed down, faster than cockroach scurrying out of the light.

“The Great Negotiator”! What a tool.

You know, Canada's well being is not served by having America become a Third World Shit hole, as we are well on the way too.


You've done quite well as neighbor to a successful First World America.


You really think that any change in America would likely be a change for the good, from your perspective?

 

[Indeependent]

Coal is currently the source of 40% of world electricity production.

And it's declining rapidly. What was the share of coal of world electricity production 10 years ago? It was much higher, wasn't it? So I want to know why you think you can get away with removing context in an argument that relies entirely on context? What is the share of coal in the US domestic market now vs. 10 years ago?

Coal isn't coming back. It's dying.

1982 Reagan in office.
1996 Bill Clinton in office.
So, your crazy anti-republican rant, and giving Obama the credit for the US solar industry, is just plain wrong.

Sigh...who holds the patents on solar cells? What country do they reside? Not the US; Germany and China. We don't hold the patents for solar cells, which are what makes solar panels work. Those patents are held overseas; we cannot manufacture solar cells without paying an exorbitant license fee to the patent holders, who reside overseas.

How is it possible you know less than nothing about this topic?

Trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working class and middle class is my goal.

I thought your goal was to increase the deficit and debt and collect more wealth in the hands of the few? Because that's the end result of the policies you support. A trade policy that leads to wage growth for the working and middle class was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which you opposed and in doing so, ceded the market and influence to China, who will now form trade deals individually with the nations that the TPP included. So you narrow-mindedly disadvantaged us in the global markets because of your stupid "America first" posturing and idiocy.

he Cheap labor and outsourcing that generates wealth for the one percent while stagnating wages for the working class and middle class, is the problem that I want to see fixed.

It's not outsourcing or cheap labor that is killing jobs; it's automation and technology. Jobs are being lost to robots, not third world workers. Outsourcing isn't responsible for the recent loss of jobs; automation is. So unless your policy is to discourage automation and innovation, then you don't have a jobs policy in mind. All you have are reactionary policies that don't work.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Bullshit.

 

[The Derp]

Really? Did Japan become a first world nation by importing a lot of shit? What about South Korea?Is the Chinese massive growth fueled by high imports?Mmmm?

They're not fueled by tariffs, that's for fucking sure.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I heard on the radio this morning that there are 80 times more workers that rely on steel than those that make it.

So, for every worker helped, 80 are potentially harmed


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[RealDave]

Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.

1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.

We still have 3 2 six million technical jobs going begging because the GOP blocks spending money on training and education for workers, unlike Germany, and we also don't have other government support for industry, like subsidies, all to save the greedy idiot mega-rich GOP from paying their fair share in taxes, dupe. 35 years of slowly ruining the middle class and the country. Great job GOP.

1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Trump just subsidized our corporations through his dumbass tax cut.

Did you just implicitly admit my two points you "replied to", but did not challenge?


1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

1) We should be guiding more High schoolers towards trades. Where I live, companies have resorted to billboards begging for welders. There is more to be done. Not to say companies should quit whining & do most of their own training. These same companies begging for skilled workers operate on a boom/bust philosophy - hire & layoff - repeat.

2 Some countries to help "save" their industries through various means. As do we through tax breaks & tax cuts. To pretend everyone is bad and we are good is naive. We have anti-dumping laws that can be enforced in those situations instead of blabbing how everyone is going to get hit with these tariffs.

Trump is a fucking idiot,. He knows shit about manufacturing. He knows shit about foreign trade.

The only thing Trump knows is thast he & his daughter uses cheap labor to import their products and their labor for his US properties. But hey MAGA right? This is why I laugh at you people.

 

[RealDave]

We import around 28% of our steel. the last couple of years

Is that so bad?

Seems to me US companies are using that 72% of US steel & surviving OK.

Figure in the products that are no longer made in this country - some instances over 40 years. Then go after dumpers. So is it worth the trade wars?

Or is dumbass Trump keeping a stupid campaign promise that he made when he was even more naive than he is now.

 

[The Derp]

1) We should be guiding more High schoolers towards trades. Where I live, companies have resorted to billboards begging for welders. There is more to be done. Not to say companies should quit whining & do most of their own training. These same companies begging for skilled workers operate on a boom/bust philosophy - hire & layoff - repeat.

What we need are health care jobs and training; that's the industry that has grown the most this century. With tens of millions of boomers entering retirement age, the demand for home health care services will only increase. Health care jobs are the jobs of the future and that's what we should be training people to do.

 

[Dragonlady]

And Trump blinks. Facing retaliation by Canada, with whom you have a trade surplus, not a deficit, Trump will not be slapping tariffs on Canada or Mexico.

Trump said the tariff would only come off if we signed a new NAFTA deal. Trudeau said “No fucking way. We’ll retaliate with tariffs on produce and wine”. And Trump backed down, faster than cockroach scurrying out of the light.

“The Great Negotiator”! What a tool.

You know, Canada's well being is not served by having America become a Third World Shit hole, as we are well on the way too.


You've done quite well as neighbor to a successful First World America.


You really think that any change in America would likely be a change for the good, from your perspective?

Canada just signed a massive trade deal with the EU. We’re a party to the TPP, which will be signed on Thursday, and the Paris Climate Accord.

Our education system is ranked third in the world, and our corporate tax rate is 25%. Despite our weather, we’re consistently ranked as one of the best places in the world to live, and to do business. We have more personal freedom than Americans. Our government is investing in research and development as well as infrastructure. Last but not least, we have the fastest growing middle class in the world.

The EU deal was signed right after Trump became President. So right now, you need us a whole lot more than we need you.

Like I said, don’t mistake our good manners and willingness to compromise with weakness or gullibility. Had Trudeau caved to Dumb Donald on tariffs or NAFTA, he would definitely be on one-term PM.