Promoting Islamophobia

[Sally]

you make a point that interests me Coyote. You accused
Dog of hating muslims without having met one. Long ago--
when I was young (and beautiful) ----I met LOTS AND LOTS of muslims----together with lots of other people from India, Pakistan Iran even Ceylon (well it WAS Ceylon)------of
those people-----the ones who really really hated jews----
were the muslims who never met a jew.. Hindus, Sikhs, etc etc did not hate jews-------some even had jewish friends---
usually in Bombay------but muslims from the northern parts
of India and from Pakistan (the Ceylon people I knew were
Buddhist and hindu) REALLY HATED JEWS. It worked out
ok------they seemed to assume I am Christian-----that's how
I found out how much they hated jews-------they expected me
to share the opinion-------so I played along----sometimes.
One poor young Opthamologist from Pakistan was HORRIFIED at my claim to be a jew----he insisted
"IT's NOT TRUE"
As to dog------what makes you think he hates "all muslims"-----did he ever say that? Did he say just being born a muslim
is like proof of corruption like so many people say of jews-----
the ones I correctly call islamo nazis

When people have never met "the other" it's easy to believe they aren't like other people and to believe in conspiracy theories and fear mongering. The danger in actually meeting them and talking with them is that you might realize that they are just like other people - just as good, bad, pig-headed, ignorant, educated, smart, stupid....

Look at how the level of anti-semitism and wide spread acceptance of conspiracy theories has risen among the Palestinians. With increased seperation over the years many have never met a Jew.

As far as India - antisemitism among India's Hindus is around 18% - .not a miniscule number.

As far as Dogma's views to Muslims - I have yet to see a single post from him that doesn't totally villafy them as a whole - without distinction. What other conclusion can be drawn?

I have never seen him vilify Muslims as a whole. This is your imagination working overtime. By the way, since you want to call people bigoted, how about you ask this devout Muslim doctor living here in America why he felt he had to narrate this documentary to warn people about how the radical Muslims want to take over America. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many Muslims here in America who wouldn't want to see other Muslims take over because then they would be back in the same boat as they were in before they fled to America for freedom.

The Third Jihad

Show me a post where he has made a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, or said anything postive about Muslims.

Racists and anti-semites aren't the only bigots around you know.

Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time looking at his previous posts.

It's your choice Sally. I stand by what I say then.

I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others;

True, you just ignore them. Or excuse them (if the victims are Muslim like in Myanmar).

however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.

Are they?

Check out Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch Defending Human Rights Worldwide
Also, check out the list of ongoing conflicts around the world and the associated death tolls. Human atrocities are part and parcel of these conflicts. List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many are in Islamic areas. Many are not. They're the ones you guys ignore despite the cost in human life.

I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.

Why do you think he's "honest"? Do you think that's a reason to justify hate rhetoric against the the vast majority who aren't? Did you know that a small percentage of white males are responsible for most of the crime in the US?

Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.

Check out the links.

I've posted threads on the Congo and Mexico and Myanmar amongst others. You ignore them.

Do you not think that we can read the news and see what is going on in other areas of the world? Go have your hissy fits because you can't stand to see any news brought up about the Muslims and what they are doing. I will reiterate -- can you show us any group that is committing atrocities in many different areas of the world such as the Muslims are doing? Are the radical Hindus running off to Africa to murder innocent people there? Are the Buddhists also running off with the Hindus to do same? Whatever atrocities different groups are committing seem to be held in one area of the world. It would be a pleasure to see you become as honest as that man Mohammed in Pakistan.

 

[Coyote]

When people have never met "the other" it's easy to believe they aren't like other people and to believe in conspiracy theories and fear mongering. The danger in actually meeting them and talking with them is that you might realize that they are just like other people - just as good, bad, pig-headed, ignorant, educated, smart, stupid....

Look at how the level of anti-semitism and wide spread acceptance of conspiracy theories has risen among the Palestinians. With increased seperation over the years many have never met a Jew.

As far as India - antisemitism among India's Hindus is around 18% - .not a miniscule number.

As far as Dogma's views to Muslims - I have yet to see a single post from him that doesn't totally villafy them as a whole - without distinction. What other conclusion can be drawn?

I have never seen him vilify Muslims as a whole. This is your imagination working overtime. By the way, since you want to call people bigoted, how about you ask this devout Muslim doctor living here in America why he felt he had to narrate this documentary to warn people about how the radical Muslims want to take over America. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many Muslims here in America who wouldn't want to see other Muslims take over because then they would be back in the same boat as they were in before they fled to America for freedom.

The Third Jihad

Show me a post where he has made a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, or said anything postive about Muslims.

Racists and anti-semites aren't the only bigots around you know.

Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time looking at his previous posts.

It's your choice Sally. I stand by what I say then.

I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others;

True, you just ignore them. Or excuse them (if the victims are Muslim like in Myanmar).

however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.

Are they?

Check out Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch Defending Human Rights Worldwide
Also, check out the list of ongoing conflicts around the world and the associated death tolls. Human atrocities are part and parcel of these conflicts. List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many are in Islamic areas. Many are not. They're the ones you guys ignore despite the cost in human life.

I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.

Why do you think he's "honest"? Do you think that's a reason to justify hate rhetoric against the the vast majority who aren't? Did you know that a small percentage of white males are responsible for most of the crime in the US?

Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.

Check out the links.

I've posted threads on the Congo and Mexico and Myanmar amongst others. You ignore them.

Do you not think that we can read the news and see what is going on in other areas of the world? Go have your hissy fits because you can't stand to see any news brought up about the Muslims and what they are doing. I will reiterate -- can you show us any group that is committing atrocities in many different areas of the world such as the Muslims are doing? Are the radical Hindus running off to Africa to murder innocent people there? Are the Buddhists also running off with the Hindus to do same? Whatever atrocities different groups are committing seem to be held in one area of the world. It would be a pleasure to see you become as honest as that man Mohammed in Pakistan.

You asked me questions. I answered them.

Now you're making a bunch of silly statements that show a lack of comprehension on what is going on around the world. I don't think the Congolese care much about whether other religious sects are running around murdering people when their women are being brutally raped (necessating extensive surgery to bring them back to some normal functioning) and even infants are being sodomized and raped by the militias terrorizing them. It would be a pleasure to see you even remotely interested in what is happening in some of these areas.

Now I expect your next response will be "this is the ME forum blah blah blah" but remember - you did ask first

 

[Sally]

I have never seen him vilify Muslims as a whole. This is your imagination working overtime. By the way, since you want to call people bigoted, how about you ask this devout Muslim doctor living here in America why he felt he had to narrate this documentary to warn people about how the radical Muslims want to take over America. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many Muslims here in America who wouldn't want to see other Muslims take over because then they would be back in the same boat as they were in before they fled to America for freedom.

The Third Jihad

Show me a post where he has made a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, or said anything postive about Muslims.

Racists and anti-semites aren't the only bigots around you know.

Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time looking at his previous posts.

It's your choice Sally. I stand by what I say then.

I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others;

True, you just ignore them. Or excuse them (if the victims are Muslim like in Myanmar).

however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.

Are they?

Check out Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch Defending Human Rights Worldwide
Also, check out the list of ongoing conflicts around the world and the associated death tolls. Human atrocities are part and parcel of these conflicts. List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many are in Islamic areas. Many are not. They're the ones you guys ignore despite the cost in human life.

I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.

Why do you think he's "honest"? Do you think that's a reason to justify hate rhetoric against the the vast majority who aren't? Did you know that a small percentage of white males are responsible for most of the crime in the US?

Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.

Check out the links.

I've posted threads on the Congo and Mexico and Myanmar amongst others. You ignore them.

Do you not think that we can read the news and see what is going on in other areas of the world? Go have your hissy fits because you can't stand to see any news brought up about the Muslims and what they are doing. I will reiterate -- can you show us any group that is committing atrocities in many different areas of the world such as the Muslims are doing? Are the radical Hindus running off to Africa to murder innocent people there? Are the Buddhists also running off with the Hindus to do same? Whatever atrocities different groups are committing seem to be held in one area of the world. It would be a pleasure to see you become as honest as that man Mohammed in Pakistan.

You asked me questions. I answered them.

Now you're making a bunch of silly statements that show a lack of comprehension on what is going on around the world. I don't think the Congolese care much about whether other religious sects are running around murdering people when their women are being brutally raped (necessating extensive surgery to bring them back to some normal functioning) and even infants are being sodomized and raped by the militias terrorizing them. It would be a pleasure to see you even remotely interested in what is happening in some of these areas.

Now I expect your next response will be "this is the ME forum blah blah blah" but remember - you did ask first

Are you finished with your hissy fit? Meanwhile I think most of us were quite aware of what these friendly Muslims did to innocent people in Mali, Kenya, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. the other week. When you can show us that other groups are operating in various locations, come back and inform us.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You have some strange ideas of "informative". Some yes, some not so much. But if you find the likes of cult smasher, Monte, and Penelope informative...well....it's a free country dude.

It is VERY informative to read the agendas of those such as you and these others.

To quote Sun Tzu on the subject, “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

 

[Roudy]

You're putting words in my mouth. It's quite easy for me to remember the many living rooms I sat in over there that have 2 pictures hanging on the wall. One of Ataturk, and the other a prophet.

I understand your need to discredit my experiences over there, while you probably don't. The subconscious is tricky that way. The conversations I had over there always involved lot's of questions about how Americans viewed Turks. I learned early on how genuinely hurt people would get when I told them Americans don't care about things they thought we would. After 911 when somehow, I forget the particulars, the Turkish press got ahold of comments someone made portraying Turks as the lap dog of American policy. THAT created Anti American sentiment. Another thing that would blindly outrage them, being a proud people...are your posts.

The last thing they need is you, a stranger, telling them all about how they are. I feel a little that way when I see you telling me stuff I already know quite well, and stuff that never entered any conversations I had over there.

What you can't possibly realize it what the average day is like for most Turks.

Some of the mind numbing hysterical rants...which you call posts...would not go down well at the Turkish dinner table. The stuff I see you alarmed about is created by politicians in a chaotic parliament, and doesn't affect the price of Domates and Peynir.

I'm simply relating my experiences over there, and I know it must be an obstacle to your abstracts.

Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?

Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques. But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.

Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.

I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence. So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East. All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.

I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.

Ha ha ha. You mean the call the prayer? Depends on who's doing it. I actually knew some Jews and Christians who looked forward to hearing it believe it or not. Some of them have great voices. But most of the time it just sounds like someone stepped on a dog's tail and its and its now hollering in pain.

But like I said so many have invaded the region and laid their "seeds" there, that it basically comes down to whoever is strong enough to rule at this time. Democracy and free speech is an alien concept in the region, the only thing that people have responded to is fear and intimidation. That is even how Mohammad rose to power, and how ISIS and all these terror organizations are gaining momentum today.

 

[Roudy]

Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques. But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.

Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.

I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence. So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East. All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.

I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.

You must have missed one as the call to prayer goes out 5 times a day, now they use cheap walkie talkies to call the faithfull to prayer after being hit with many noise abatement orders.
The true arabs from Saudi look down on all the other muslims as scum and second class pretend muslims, so is it any wonder islam is so paranoid and sees hate round every corner

And by the way....I didn't really count how many times a day ptayer went out. I just remember it waking me up at something like 6:00am or whatever.

The moral of this story...is how little the Muslims I knew, NOT JUST IN TURKEY, talked about Islam.

You guys who are afraid Muslims will take over think of them waaaaay more than the average Muslim thinks about Americans. I wonder how they would react if I told them Americans think they'll actually try to take us over some day, and start killing Christians. They'd think some of us have lost it.

There are bad people over there, and their lives are generally NOT as exciting as ours. But they have Family....smile about as much, cry about as much, and so on....

whatever....your'e just going to say I'm some kind of nazi jew islamic thingy or whatever...I give up

Muslims don't talk about Islam to people of other faiths. But they do trash other faiths. For example as a Jew my Muslim employees would trash Christians, Armenians and Baha'is in front of me. And when I wasn't around I'm pretty sure they'd do a whole skit on me and my religion.

Come on you can't be that naive. It's just people are.

 

[irosie91]

toxoid----your post is full of meaninglessness. "turks are a proud people"------gee---even I knew that. "someone said ---""the turks are lapdogs of the USA"-----what else is new?----a typical islamo Nazi pig libel. I have heard stuff like that about
every politician, sect, group in the entire stinking UMMAH----
by any person out to vilify any given-----politician, sect, group----
etc etc. Try not to demonstrate your stupidity

You're brilliant.

So pointing out something YOU know means they're stupid?

Wow...how do you begin to unwind that?

You too can learn more about yourself by understanding the psychological concept of "projection"

"Projection" is an ego defense mechanism described by Freud-----you have no idea what it is -----you are clueless

 

[Phoenall]

Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques. But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.

Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.

I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence. So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East. All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.

I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.

You must have missed one as the call to prayer goes out 5 times a day, now they use cheap walkie talkies to call the faithfull to prayer after being hit with many noise abatement orders.
The true arabs from Saudi look down on all the other muslims as scum and second class pretend muslims, so is it any wonder islam is so paranoid and sees hate round every corner

The Mosque accross the street had a PA system. But the guy had a pretty good voice, and did his own little riffs that would make us laugh.

I don't know about anybody who thought others were scum. Maybe snooty Saudis might do that. They way talked about people they didn't like was no different than I hear coming from people who hate liberals, or consrvatives, on this site.

Ya know...everywhere I went, terrorism was illegal, and most of the people I met thought terrorists were idiots. I was living at Lake Van in eastern Turkey during 911. Most of the people in the town came over at some point for Tea, and offered condolences, and expressed shock

The age of consent for girls was 16 and they could not be married before that age, yet in the far flung rural areas girls as young as 6 were being married of to rich husbands and raped once they hit puberty. So just shows that laws without enforcement are just words.

 

[Phoenall]

And team Palestine ignore the facts because they don't agree with their reality of the situation.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

So what facts can you bring to the table to show that overall muslims are maligned and misunderstood pillars of the community. And I will bring the exact opposite to the table with evidence from every nation they have set foot in.

I've brought multiple facts supported by data and sources "to the table" in a number of threads. The fact that you choose to ignore them does not mean I have to keep reposting them on demand.

I can bring - to the table - atrocities committed by Muslims, Jews,, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and Athiests. I can also bring to the table good things brought about by Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Athiests. There are plenty of examples of each.

Never seen any facts from a non partisan source from you or any other team Palestine member, what I have seen is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES.

Well natch - any source that disagrees with you is going to be labled "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES" (and really now - what kind of silly point are you trying to make with the all caps?).

Your good things will be in the minority compared to the bad things done by muslims to even their own. They will issue fatwahs that make other muslims apostates so they can mass murder them with impunity and a clear conscience. that is how they work on a system of self absolution so that their sins are forgiven, a good example would be a child raped and murdered by a muslim, all he need do is utter the prayer to allah and he is innocent of any crime again. Then he pays the family a set amount for the life of the child. This is why when they are engaging in terrorist acts they cry out allahu Akbar so they will go to paradise if they are killed.

That's a matter of opinion.

You do know if a child is raped and murdered by a Christian all he needs to do is "get saved" and he is absolved of any crime. He doesn't even have to pay restitution. And the Doctrine of Mental Reservation allows them to cover it up.

And now the dictates of the Catholic church is that all serious crime must be reported and no absolution given. They are still guilty even after absolution and all the Catholic church does is free the soul of the criminal so they will be tested on their lifes work. Under islam the muslim need only reaffirm their commitment to allah and Mohamed and they are absolved of all blame, they even have a get out of jail clause for it Insh Allah or it is the will of god.

 

[georgephillip]

Islamophobia in the US

"Sandeep Singh was dragged 30 feet under a pick-up truck after the driver reportedly called him a terrorist, told him to go back to his country, and then mowed him down in the middle of 99th Street in New York City.

"Singh survived the ordeal, but he’s going to need skin grafts. He told police what happened and now Joseph Caleca of Long Island is charged with a hate crime. 'I was attacked because I am a Sikh and because I look like a Sikh,' Singh, 29, told reporters from his hospital bed. 'We need to create a world without hate.'”

A world without hate in the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?

Islamophobia Makes a Comeback The American Conservative

 

[irosie91]

The experience of ----a few----but FAR TOO MANY Sikhs in the
USA is no surprise to me. (another boring story from my past)>>>>>Long ago when I worked in a large hospital in
a semi-rural/suburban part of the USA------I did notice that
for the middle American types who were the relatives of
the patients------anyone "in foreign costume" was instantaneously "a reject"---------nothing like a Turban---(with a chin strap ---no less) and a beard ------and a metal bangle
at the wrist to make them imagine that the martians have landed. It was not New York and it was not.....now.-----
but that is how it was with some people and still is.
Considering that this event took place in New York-----and now----actually I am a little surprised. There must be more
to it-------

 

[Phoenall]

Islamophobia in the US

"Sandeep Singh was dragged 30 feet under a pick-up truck after the driver reportedly called him a terrorist, told him to go back to his country, and then mowed him down in the middle of 99th Street in New York City.

"Singh survived the ordeal, but he’s going to need skin grafts. He told police what happened and now Joseph Caleca of Long Island is charged with a hate crime. 'I was attacked because I am a Sikh and because I look like a Sikh,' Singh, 29, told reporters from his hospital bed. 'We need to create a world without hate.'”

A world without hate in the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?

Islamophobia Makes a Comeback The American Conservative

Since when have Sikh's been Islamic, you are clutching at straws again to demonise the Americans

 

[irosie91]

Islamophobia in the US

"Sandeep Singh was dragged 30 feet under a pick-up truck after the driver reportedly called him a terrorist, told him to go back to his country, and then mowed him down in the middle of 99th Street in New York City.

"Singh survived the ordeal, but he’s going to need skin grafts. He told police what happened and now Joseph Caleca of Long Island is charged with a hate crime. 'I was attacked because I am a Sikh and because I look like a Sikh,' Singh, 29, told reporters from his hospital bed. 'We need to create a world without hate.'”

A world without hate in the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?

Islamophobia Makes a Comeback The American Conservative

Since when have Sikh's been Islamic, you are clutching at straws again to demonise the Americans

Phoen-----way back in the early 70s and late 60s-----hubby was a student in London------
He was ----back then PAKI BASHED.

 

[toxicmedia]

None of the Turkish people I know would have any idea what you're talking about.

It's easy to be as far from reality as you are, having never lived with Muslims

Kamal Attaturk is a national hero and the father of the Turkish nation. Any semi educated Turk would know Attaturk. Unless you hung out with some low class ignorant ones. "Having never lived with Muslims" after everything that has transpired are you back to bragging about your tourist credentials?

You're putting words in my mouth. It's quite easy for me to remember the many living rooms I sat in over there that have 2 pictures hanging on the wall. One of Ataturk, and the other a prophet.

I understand your need to discredit my experiences over there, while you probably don't. The subconscious is tricky that way. The conversations I had over there always involved lot's of questions about how Americans viewed Turks. I learned early on how genuinely hurt people would get when I told them Americans don't care about things they thought we would. After 911 when somehow, I forget the particulars, the Turkish press got ahold of comments someone made portraying Turks as the lap dog of American policy. THAT created Anti American sentiment. Another thing that would blindly outrage them, being a proud people...are your posts.

The last thing they need is you, a stranger, telling them all about how they are. I feel a little that way when I see you telling me stuff I already know quite well, and stuff that never entered any conversations I had over there.

What you can't possibly realize it what the average day is like for most Turks.

Some of the mind numbing hysterical rants...which you call posts...would not go down well at the Turkish dinner table. The stuff I see you alarmed about is created by politicians in a chaotic parliament, and doesn't affect the price of Domates and Peynir.

I'm simply relating my experiences over there, and I know it must be an obstacle to your abstracts.

Do Turks eat that salted Bulgarian Peynir (cheese) as well? Iranians call it Panir Bulgari. I still love eating it with bread and watermelon. Breakfast of champions. I have never been to Turkey however I am sure Turks, like all other people are busy living their everyday lives.

But yes, most of the things said on these anonymous boards can't be said in public, anywhere. However, that does not mean there isn't any truth to them.

That salty feta like cheese comes in a square blue aluminum can, not sure if it's from Bulgaria. But I loved the summer season Turkish breakfasts. Tomatos, those skinny mild green peppers, cucumbers, salty home made cured black olives, fresh bread from the corner bakery, tea, and preserves.

And here I was looking for a good recipe for lambs' testicles that I see in the meat department of Middle Eastern markets. Since the Armenian Turks that I know say that their mother's dish using these are great, I should ask them how she makes them unless you have a good recipe that you can pass on.

I was given absolutely no access to recipes, or the kitchen for that matter. When I once tried to go in the kitchen to wash dishes, my mother in law chased me out, and my father in law shook his head. The kitchen is the domain of women wherever I went.

Sorry, I'd be glad to help if I could

 

[irosie91]

Kamal Attaturk is a national hero and the father of the Turkish nation. Any semi educated Turk would know Attaturk. Unless you hung out with some low class ignorant ones. "Having never lived with Muslims" after everything that has transpired are you back to bragging about your tourist credentials?

You're putting words in my mouth. It's quite easy for me to remember the many living rooms I sat in over there that have 2 pictures hanging on the wall. One of Ataturk, and the other a prophet.

I understand your need to discredit my experiences over there, while you probably don't. The subconscious is tricky that way. The conversations I had over there always involved lot's of questions about how Americans viewed Turks. I learned early on how genuinely hurt people would get when I told them Americans don't care about things they thought we would. After 911 when somehow, I forget the particulars, the Turkish press got ahold of comments someone made portraying Turks as the lap dog of American policy. THAT created Anti American sentiment. Another thing that would blindly outrage them, being a proud people...are your posts.

The last thing they need is you, a stranger, telling them all about how they are. I feel a little that way when I see you telling me stuff I already know quite well, and stuff that never entered any conversations I had over there.

What you can't possibly realize it what the average day is like for most Turks.

Some of the mind numbing hysterical rants...which you call posts...would not go down well at the Turkish dinner table. The stuff I see you alarmed about is created by politicians in a chaotic parliament, and doesn't affect the price of Domates and Peynir.

I'm simply relating my experiences over there, and I know it must be an obstacle to your abstracts.

Do Turks eat that salted Bulgarian Peynir (cheese) as well? Iranians call it Panir Bulgari. I still love eating it with bread and watermelon. Breakfast of champions. I have never been to Turkey however I am sure Turks, like all other people are busy living their everyday lives.

But yes, most of the things said on these anonymous boards can't be said in public, anywhere. However, that does not mean there isn't any truth to them.

That salty feta like cheese comes in a square blue aluminum can, not sure if it's from Bulgaria. But I loved the summer season Turkish breakfasts. Tomatos, those skinny mild green peppers, cucumbers, salty home made cured black olives, fresh bread from the corner bakery, tea, and preserves.

And here I was looking for a good recipe for lambs' testicles that I see in the meat department of Middle Eastern markets. Since the Armenian Turks that I know say that their mother's dish using these are great, I should ask them how she makes them unless you have a good recipe that you can pass on.

I was given absolutely no access to recipes, or the kitchen for that matter. When I once tried to go in the kitchen to wash dishes, my mother in law chased me out, and my father in law shook his head. The kitchen is the domain of women wherever I went.

Sorry, I'd be glad to help if I could

yes----PURDAH------a very Islamic thing-----the dirt is ingrained thruout Turkey and they want the WHOLE THING---
LOCK STOCK AND BARREL
It's Erdogan's political platform

 

[toxicmedia]

Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?

Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques. But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.

Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.

I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence. So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East. All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.

I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.

Ha ha ha. You mean the call the prayer? Depends on who's doing it. I actually knew some Jews and Christians who looked forward to hearing it believe it or not. Some of them have great voices. But most of the time it just sounds like someone stepped on a dog's tail and its and its now hollering in pain.

But like I said so many have invaded the region and laid their "seeds" there, that it basically comes down to whoever is strong enough to rule at this time. Democracy and free speech is an alien concept in the region, the only thing that people have responded to is fear and intimidation. That is even how Mohammad rose to power, and how ISIS and all these terror organizations are gaining momentum today.

Sure, Turkey has been the crossroads for many an invasion...but the results have less to do with politics than they do customs. Hospitality is the resulting defense tool.

There are customs that involve inviting ANYONE into your home, and feeding them if they're hungry, that still are practiced...within reason.

Democracy has no problem in Turkey. Syria and Iraq...not so much.

As far as free speech. You can say anything you want, or hold any public demonstration you want...so long as it's approved (get a permit) from the city council. It always takes a bribe to get that done.

 

[irosie91]

Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques. But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.

Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.

I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence. So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East. All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.

I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.

Ha ha ha. You mean the call the prayer? Depends on who's doing it. I actually knew some Jews and Christians who looked forward to hearing it believe it or not. Some of them have great voices. But most of the time it just sounds like someone stepped on a dog's tail and its and its now hollering in pain.

But like I said so many have invaded the region and laid their "seeds" there, that it basically comes down to whoever is strong enough to rule at this time. Democracy and free speech is an alien concept in the region, the only thing that people have responded to is fear and intimidation. That is even how Mohammad rose to power, and how ISIS and all these terror organizations are gaining momentum today.

Sure, Turkey has been the crossroads for many an invasion...but the results have less to do with politics than they do customs. Hospitality is the resulting defense tool.

There are customs that involve inviting ANYONE into your home, and feeding them if they're hungry, that still are practiced...within reason.

Democracy has no problem in Turkey. Syria and Iraq...not so much.

As far as free speech. You can say anything you want, or hold any public demonstration you want...so long as it's approved (get a permit) from the city council. It always takes a bribe to get that done.

BS <<<< the "say anything you want" part------not the
baksheesh part

 

[Coyote]

Show me a post where he has made a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, or said anything postive about Muslims.

Racists and anti-semites aren't the only bigots around you know.

Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time looking at his previous posts.

It's your choice Sally. I stand by what I say then.

I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others;

True, you just ignore them. Or excuse them (if the victims are Muslim like in Myanmar).

however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.

Are they?

Check out Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch Defending Human Rights Worldwide
Also, check out the list of ongoing conflicts around the world and the associated death tolls. Human atrocities are part and parcel of these conflicts. List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many are in Islamic areas. Many are not. They're the ones you guys ignore despite the cost in human life.

I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.

Why do you think he's "honest"? Do you think that's a reason to justify hate rhetoric against the the vast majority who aren't? Did you know that a small percentage of white males are responsible for most of the crime in the US?

Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.

Check out the links.

I've posted threads on the Congo and Mexico and Myanmar amongst others. You ignore them.

Do you not think that we can read the news and see what is going on in other areas of the world? Go have your hissy fits because you can't stand to see any news brought up about the Muslims and what they are doing. I will reiterate -- can you show us any group that is committing atrocities in many different areas of the world such as the Muslims are doing? Are the radical Hindus running off to Africa to murder innocent people there? Are the Buddhists also running off with the Hindus to do same? Whatever atrocities different groups are committing seem to be held in one area of the world. It would be a pleasure to see you become as honest as that man Mohammed in Pakistan.

You asked me questions. I answered them.

Now you're making a bunch of silly statements that show a lack of comprehension on what is going on around the world. I don't think the Congolese care much about whether other religious sects are running around murdering people when their women are being brutally raped (necessating extensive surgery to bring them back to some normal functioning) and even infants are being sodomized and raped by the militias terrorizing them. It would be a pleasure to see you even remotely interested in what is happening in some of these areas.

Now I expect your next response will be "this is the ME forum blah blah blah" but remember - you did ask first

Are you finished with your hissy fit? Meanwhile I think most of us were quite aware of what these friendly Muslims did to innocent people in Mali, Kenya, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. the other week. When you can show us that other groups are operating in various locations, come back and inform us.

What "hissy fit" is that Sally? You asked me questions. I politely answered. Does that cause issues for you?

 

[Coyote]

You have some strange ideas of "informative". Some yes, some not so much. But if you find the likes of cult smasher, Monte, and Penelope informative...well....it's a free country dude.

It is VERY informative to read the agendas of those such as you and these others.

To quote Sun Tzu on the subject, “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

You have a vivid imagination and you sure seem to rent me an awful lot of head space. I suggest you take up some hobbies that do not include attempted mind reading.

 

[Coyote]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

So what facts can you bring to the table to show that overall muslims are maligned and misunderstood pillars of the community. And I will bring the exact opposite to the table with evidence from every nation they have set foot in.

I've brought multiple facts supported by data and sources "to the table" in a number of threads. The fact that you choose to ignore them does not mean I have to keep reposting them on demand.

I can bring - to the table - atrocities committed by Muslims, Jews,, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and Athiests. I can also bring to the table good things brought about by Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Athiests. There are plenty of examples of each.

Never seen any facts from a non partisan source from you or any other team Palestine member, what I have seen is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES.

Well natch - any source that disagrees with you is going to be labled "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES" (and really now - what kind of silly point are you trying to make with the all caps?).

Your good things will be in the minority compared to the bad things done by muslims to even their own. They will issue fatwahs that make other muslims apostates so they can mass murder them with impunity and a clear conscience. that is how they work on a system of self absolution so that their sins are forgiven, a good example would be a child raped and murdered by a muslim, all he need do is utter the prayer to allah and he is innocent of any crime again. Then he pays the family a set amount for the life of the child. This is why when they are engaging in terrorist acts they cry out allahu Akbar so they will go to paradise if they are killed.

That's a matter of opinion.

You do know if a child is raped and murdered by a Christian all he needs to do is "get saved" and he is absolved of any crime. He doesn't even have to pay restitution. And the Doctrine of Mental Reservation allows them to cover it up.

And now the dictates of the Catholic church is that all serious crime must be reported and no absolution given. They are still guilty even after absolution and all the Catholic church does is free the soul of the criminal so they will be tested on their lifes work. Under islam the muslim need only reaffirm their commitment to allah and Mohamed and they are absolved of all blame, they even have a get out of jail clause for it Insh Allah or it is the will of god.

After years and years of abuse and cover up - finally. But that does not extend to other Christian denominations - if you reaffirm your commitment to Jesus, all crimes go poof. Really Phoenall, you're trying to extract a difference that isn't there.