Protesters topple Confederate monument on UNC campus

[EvilCat Breath]

No one can change history by toppling statues.

Its history is as a monument erected in 1913 to the Jim Crow laws which were keeping the blacks in their place. It glorifies men who fought for a government based on the inferiority of the black man, which intended to preserve slavery. History will record that such men were less likely to be glorified 150 years after the war.

So we get to destroy everything that offends us?

OK.

View attachment 212040 View attachment 212041

Where is the statue that is the tribute to alcoholics? The one of Martin Luther King Jr. Tear it down and blow up the pieces to sand.

 

[martybegan]

And the middle ground, the lawful approach, you petition to have the statues removed.

The act of tearing them down illegally is the bad part, not so much that they destroy history (regardless of what one might wish to say about "what the statue represents" it destroys the construction methods, the artists work, the... archaeological history of it. It's wrong to destroy other peoples (or the states, or the cities, or the schools, or the business, or the historical foundation group, etc) property - even /if/ one thinks that the statues being there is wrong. When you allow this kind of criminal mischief you undermine "common law" - and to condone it, merely notes your anarchist roots...

The other part of this is if the people who brought down the Statue thought so much of it, why hide while doing it, and run away when finished?

The Civil rights movement was based on protesters who violated laws they thought were unjust, got arrested, paid the fine/spent time in jail and then when right out there and did it again.

Our current crop of "rebels" seem to be brave enough to commit the acts, but not brave enough to embrace the consequences.

And that's a separate problem in my eyes, I (too?) have a... gut feeling that these punks are just using this as an excuse to destroy shit. These progressive revisionists as a whole have a tenuous grasp on actual principles, their arguments fail to merit the unlawful pulling down of statues - the lawful voting to have them removed is appropriate, but that's not what they choose to do, and allow to be done. They allow criminal hooligans who have no principle connection to their movement to run the show. This ultimately undermines their arguments and serves as nothing more than a hot bed of animosity between their position (which may actually have some semblance of logic to it) and those who would prefer to preserve 'history' as /they/ see it. Circumventing the legal process, regardless of if it's intentional or incidental does irreparable harm to logical public discourse on a matter the removers say they want to "discuss."

While I personally don't mind if they allow the hooligans and criminals to lead them to defeat, I do dread the idea of one party rule in the nation - this leaves me sitting on a rather odd fence of not agreeing with their radical methods and wanting them shunned for criminal acts so the more logical seeming righties can keep us as a nation on the straight and narrow, yet also wanting them (on the left) to fucking clean up their shit as a party >.<

They want to be part of the "protest" but don't want to put the sacrifice required into it.

Which leads me to believe they really don't believe half the crap the spout about being "upset" by these things, because if they really were upset they would risk more to get rid of what they despise.

Well you'd have to go back to the modern lefts "principles" - or complete fucking lack there of - to understand the flippant and illogical "moral foundation" of their current movement. When one has no "guiding principles" for why they believe what they do, you end up with a mishmash of hysterical moments, you do not have a solid base of "I believe this" you end up with an emotionally charged "I feel this at this moment... but tomorrow it may be the opposite" ~rolls eyes~

The left in the 60's at least followed through. They protested, got arrested, went through the legal system (though they made a mockery of it) and then when released went right out and did it again. Current protesters don't want any consequences to their actions.

It's really boils down to a denial of reality, and any reminder of it.

 

[martybegan]

That is an interesting way of looking at it. Thank you.

It only takes into consideration that if we want to unite, and the only way they can seem to manage that is division and destruction, then we really didn't learn a damn thing from the Civil War.

Actually we learned not to dissolve from the top down, but from the bottom up (if the current situation devolves into actual widespread violence)

 

[Hiryuu]

Actually we learned not to dissolve from the top down, but from the bottom up (if the current situation devolves into actual widespread violence)

Well, that really makes a lot of sense (not kidding, and I understand what you mean). But, you have to also examine to what extent you are dissolving something by adding more of it.

 

[BigTruck]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

 

[martybegan]

Actually we learned not to dissolve from the top down, but from the bottom up (if the current situation devolves into actual widespread violence)

Well, that really makes a lot of sense (not kidding, and I understand what you mean). But, you have to also examine to what extent you are dissolving something by adding more of it.

I'm more talking about secession as happening via movement of people, and actual fighting at the lower levels of government rather than whole States pulling out and saying goodbye.

Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Maybe?

 

[Hiryuu]

I'm more talking about secession as happening via movement of people, and actual fighting at the lower levels of government rather than whole States pulling out and saying goodbye.

Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Maybe?

Here's the edit I made above (then moved here) that shows we are probably in agreement.

(Edit) Only in respects to how you want to facilitate the agent you are using to dissolve something. In that case it is only going to result in conflict until one agent defeats the other. How violent that conflict becomes resides in how skilled those applying the solvent are at controlling the reaction.

 

[martybegan]

I'm more talking about secession as happening via movement of people, and actual fighting at the lower levels of government rather than whole States pulling out and saying goodbye.

Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Maybe?

Here's the edit I made above (then moved here) that shows we are probably in agreement.

(Edit) Only in respects to how you want to facilitate the agent you are using to dissolve something. In that case it is only going to result in conflict until one agent defeats the other. How violent that conflict becomes resides in how skilled those applying the solvent are at controlling the reaction.

Well the dissoulsion this time may be mutual, but the fight will be over who gets what. While the current split is along regional lines, the regions are interspersed with each other.

Urban/Rural, with the burbs being the area of most contention.

 

[sartre play]

Sorry to hear that, art & history should never be destroyed.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

If a new one has to be made, make those who destroyed the original one be who pays for the new one. Then maybe they won't be so quick to go after any other ones in the future.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Staidhup]

When all the statues are gone history will be erased and then repeated.

 

[Correll]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

 

[BigTruck]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

 

[Correll]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

Yes, I got it. YOu dismiss and disparage cultures not your own.


ANd in doing so, you prove that multiculturalism is a failure. On at least two levels.


That was my point. I hope you are just not going to keep repeating your previous point, that I now have addressed twice.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Put the protesters and history destroyers in a mass grave. Put the monuments they tore down on top of the buried bodies.

 

[BigTruck]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

Yes, I got it. YOu dismiss and disparage cultures not your own.


ANd in doing so, you prove that multiculturalism is a failure. On at least two levels.


That was my point. I hope you are just not going to keep repeating your previous point, that I now have addressed twice.

What does multiculturalism have to do with anything?

I’ve never been a proponent of multiculturalism.

I just won’t justify racism the way you seem to want to do.

 

[Correll]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

Yes, I got it. YOu dismiss and disparage cultures not your own.


ANd in doing so, you prove that multiculturalism is a failure. On at least two levels.


That was my point. I hope you are just not going to keep repeating your previous point, that I now have addressed twice.

What does multiculturalism have to do with anything?

I’ve never been a proponent of multiculturalism.

I just won’t justify racism the way you seem to want to do.

Calling something "racism" does not excuse your bigotry.


So, you don't support multiculturalism? Good for you. Me either.


So, what is your problem with southern culture?

 

[BigTruck]

Can’t say I feel bad about the statue being torn down.

Too bad the people who did it felt the need to break the law to do it.

The statue should stay down and never be replaced.

Racism and those who fought to preserve slavery should never be celebrated.

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

Yes, I got it. YOu dismiss and disparage cultures not your own.


ANd in doing so, you prove that multiculturalism is a failure. On at least two levels.


That was my point. I hope you are just not going to keep repeating your previous point, that I now have addressed twice.

What does multiculturalism have to do with anything?

I’ve never been a proponent of multiculturalism.

I just won’t justify racism the way you seem to want to do.

Calling something "racism" does not excuse your bigotry.


So, you don't support multiculturalism? Good for you. Me either.


So, what is your problem with southern culture?

Are you saying southern culture is founded in racism?

If that’s what you’re saying, you’ve answered your own question.

I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment of southern culture.

 

[Correll]

Your lack of empathy for other cultures, is noted and held against you.


Ironically, on at least two levels, you have proven multiculturalism to be a failure.

Can’t muster much empathy for racists.

Perhaps some sympathy for their racism, it’s sad that racists don’t see the problem with their racism. It’s especially sad when they also call themselves Christians.

Yes, I got it. YOu dismiss and disparage cultures not your own.


ANd in doing so, you prove that multiculturalism is a failure. On at least two levels.


That was my point. I hope you are just not going to keep repeating your previous point, that I now have addressed twice.

What does multiculturalism have to do with anything?

I’ve never been a proponent of multiculturalism.

I just won’t justify racism the way you seem to want to do.

Calling something "racism" does not excuse your bigotry.


So, you don't support multiculturalism? Good for you. Me either.


So, what is your problem with southern culture?

Are you saying southern culture is founded in racism?

If that’s what you’re saying, you’ve answered your own question.

I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment of southern culture.

No, I am not saying that Southern Culture is founded in racism.


You are the one that brought up racism.

 

[Bush92]

Protesters topple Confederate monument on UNC campus
thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/402521-clapper-brennans-rhetoric-is-becoming-an-issue-in-and-of-itself
08/20/18 10:20 PM EDT --- Protesters on the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill campus on Monday night brought down a controversial monument dedicated to Confederate soldiers, according to media reports. The fate of monuments honoring Confederate soldiers have become a hot-button issue in the wake of last year's violent white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.



~~~~~~
I don’t seem to see any white supremacy in the world today. What I'm seeing is an awful lot of black supremacy and racism and Marxist Socialist terrorism in America. Seems the vandals are now setting the rules. Can the Cheka be close behind?
No one can change history by toppling statues. It shows mental impotence. You gain your rightful place in the world by building not destroying.
I doubt the average Southern foot soldier owned slaves. They were called and served in both the North and the South. Will the memorial to the Black soldiers that served in the 1st Kansas Colored Volunteers. also be toppled soon?
Should we be looking forward to seeing the Memorials to those that served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam also destroyed by the terrorists that mask themselves like the KKK?

Would have been a good place to open up with an M-60.