Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence

[ChrisL]

Why a sadist and not abusive? That is just semantics. For some reason, people think it is okay to hurt someone if that person says it is okay. I don't think that is okay. A person who enjoys inflicting pain . . . that's pretty messed up to me.

Consent. It's more than semantics.

It is ok to hurt someone when they give you consent. Chris, have you ever seen a checklist?

No it is not okay to hurt someone with consent. Only a shitty person would take advantage of another in such a manner and enjoy it. This is why I say it is probably more a sick fetish than it is sex.

You ever seen a checklist?

That is irrelevant to the discussion. A check list does not denote healthy individuals. Oh, it's okay to hurt me, but not this or this? Good Lord. It is not okay to hurt another person. If another person asks you to hurt them, you should be wary because that person is more than likely not playing with a full deck.

It is absolutely relevant, in fact, it's imperative.

A checklist, which has often been used, simply states what you will and will not do and or might consider.
BDSM Checklist

It is pretty basic.

The play time is referred to as a scene. It is planned in advance. Very few people engage in 24/7 BDSM. It is limited in time and scope.

That's all fine, but my point is that someone who wants to be hurt, possibly harmed is not playing with a full deck, checklist or no checklist, and the person who would AGREE to hurting her or him? What kind of mindset is that? How is that in any way healthy or productive?

I mean really, "twist my nipples until I'm screaming in pain" (a mild example of some of the stuff that goes on) . . . I don't think that's much of a turn on for most people who are healthy functioning adults, wanting to cause another person pain. I just don't.

A more graphic example, "whip my vagina or penis until it bleeds" . . . not healthy at all, physically or mentally. For one thing, it is possible to cause permanent nerve damage so that you cannot feel anything at all anymore. The sexual organs are very sensitive and full of nerves and blood vessels.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm pretty sure that BDSM isn't "domestic abuse."

I mean.... I haven't read the book, obviously. However, I was under the definite impression that everything in it was pretty clearly "consensual."

I disagree. I think a person who enjoys inflicting pain on others is an abusive person.

^ This is why I think we need to set ground rules on what is consent and what is abuse ^
not just personal relationships, but collectively in political decision making, if we
don't have the same standards as to what is coercion and what is informed consent, we are sunk.

Thanks ChrisL I find we are on the same page in spirit, and the finer points we can work out from there.
but it is IMPORTANT to recognize what is and what isn't fully informed consent. So glad you see this matters.
We can't just bulldoze over our differences and say too bad. This is a key point and our whole political future depends on it.

They already exist. Your help isn't needed.
BDSM vs Abuse

Well, I disagree with the premise of your link. I think, no matter if a person asks you to abuse them, if you do it, you are an abuser.

Your starting point is flawed. That is not my problem.

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

I'm pretty sure that BDSM isn't "domestic abuse."

I mean.... I haven't read the book, obviously. However, I was under the definite impression that everything in it was pretty clearly "consensual."

I disagree. I think a person who enjoys inflicting pain on others is an abusive person.

Well, again though, what about the shades of grey (hehe ) in between?

Plenty of couples like inflicting very small amounts of pain on one another in a limited fashion that requires "dominance" on the part of one partner or another. There's spanking and anal sex, for example.

Some couples like the dominance aspect even if there is no real pain - think handcuffing someone to the bed, for example.

It's not all abusive.

That is completely different than tying someone up and inflicting pain upon them, to the point where said person needs to use a "safe" word to stop them. A person who wishes to be abused in such a manner is probably a person who is best to be avoided, IMO.

Okay, so what about pleasure then?

Assume you let your guy handcuff you to a bed and put a blindfold on you, so he can go to town on you with a vibrator or something.

You both agree that he will stop if you say so ahead of time.

Is that "abusive" as well? The same general principles apply, after all.

What if a woman said to you, punch me in the face. I like it. Would you do it? I don't think you would. You would probably think she is crazy and avoid her.

Well... Yea.

However, I don't think 50 Shades was that extreme.

I think most of it was along the lines of what I described earlier. lol

 

[ChrisL]

I disagree. I think a person who enjoys inflicting pain on others is an abusive person.

Well, again though, what about the shades of grey (hehe ) in between?

Plenty of couples like inflicting very small amounts of pain on one another in a limited fashion that requires "dominance" on the part of one partner or another. There's spanking and anal sex, for example.

Some couples like the dominance aspect even if there is no real pain - think handcuffing someone to the bed, for example.

It's not all abusive.

That is completely different than tying someone up and inflicting pain upon them, to the point where said person needs to use a "safe" word to stop them. A person who wishes to be abused in such a manner is probably a person who is best to be avoided, IMO.

Okay, so what about pleasure then?

Assume you let your guy handcuff you to a bed and put a blindfold on you, so he can go to town on you with a vibrator or something.

You both agree that he will stop if you say so ahead of time.

Is that "abusive" as well? The same general principles apply, after all.

What if a woman said to you, punch me in the face. I like it. Would you do it? I don't think you would. You would probably think she is crazy and avoid her.

Well... Yea.

However, I don't think 50 Shades was that extreme.

I think most of it was along the lines of what I described earlier. lol

Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure that once people get involved in such activities, they progress in violence, not regress. It takes more and more to get pleasure for them. There is something seriously the matter with them.

 

[ChrisL]

I disagree. I think a person who enjoys inflicting pain on others is an abusive person.

Well, again though, what about the shades of grey (hehe ) in between?

Plenty of couples like inflicting very small amounts of pain on one another in a limited fashion that requires "dominance" on the part of one partner or another. There's spanking and anal sex, for example.

Some couples like the dominance aspect even if there is no real pain - think handcuffing someone to the bed, for example.

It's not all abusive.

That is completely different than tying someone up and inflicting pain upon them, to the point where said person needs to use a "safe" word to stop them. A person who wishes to be abused in such a manner is probably a person who is best to be avoided, IMO.

Okay, so what about pleasure then?

Assume you let your guy handcuff you to a bed and put a blindfold on you, so he can go to town on you with a vibrator or something.

You both agree that he will stop if you say so ahead of time.

Is that "abusive" as well? The same general principles apply, after all.

What if a woman said to you, punch me in the face. I like it. Would you do it? I don't think you would. You would probably think she is crazy and avoid her.

Well... Yea.

However, I don't think 50 Shades was that extreme.

I think most of it was along the lines of what I described earlier. lol

Anyway, we can talk more about it later. I have to get going. I took the day off to run some errands and instead I've been sitting here arguing all day. These kinds of discussions really draw you in, you know? The psyche behind these types of activities is just fascinating. TTYL, Sarge!

 

[Disir]

Consent. It's more than semantics.

It is ok to hurt someone when they give you consent. Chris, have you ever seen a checklist?

No it is not okay to hurt someone with consent. Only a shitty person would take advantage of another in such a manner and enjoy it. This is why I say it is probably more a sick fetish than it is sex.

You ever seen a checklist?

That is irrelevant to the discussion. A check list does not denote healthy individuals. Oh, it's okay to hurt me, but not this or this? Good Lord. It is not okay to hurt another person. If another person asks you to hurt them, you should be wary because that person is more than likely not playing with a full deck.

It is absolutely relevant, in fact, it's imperative.

A checklist, which has often been used, simply states what you will and will not do and or might consider.
BDSM Checklist

It is pretty basic.

The play time is referred to as a scene. It is planned in advance. Very few people engage in 24/7 BDSM. It is limited in time and scope.

That's all fine, but my point is that someone who wants to be hurt, possibly harmed is not playing with a full deck, checklist or no checklist, and the person who would AGREE to hurting her or him? What kind of mindset is that? How is that in any way healthy or productive?

I mean really, "twist my nipples until I'm screaming in pain" (a mild example of some of the stuff that goes on) . . . I don't think that's much of a turn on for most people who are healthy functioning adults, wanting to cause another person pain. I just don't.

A more graphic example, "whip my vagina or penis until it bleeds" . . . not healthy at all, physically or mentally. For one thing, it is possible to cause permanent nerve damage so that you cannot feel anything at all anymore. The sexual organs are very sensitive and full of nerves and blood vessels.

Endorphins. You can get the same from running about five miles.

There is a point where it stops being painful. That's the endorphins kicking in.

There is pretty extensive training for wielding a whip etc.

Jesus H. Christ, Chris, we aren't talking about people running around as complete noobs. Simply because it is new to you doesn't mean that it is new.

 

[Disir]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Well, again though, what about the shades of grey (hehe ) in between?

Plenty of couples like inflicting very small amounts of pain on one another in a limited fashion that requires "dominance" on the part of one partner or another. There's spanking and anal sex, for example.

Some couples like the dominance aspect even if there is no real pain - think handcuffing someone to the bed, for example.

It's not all abusive.

That is completely different than tying someone up and inflicting pain upon them, to the point where said person needs to use a "safe" word to stop them. A person who wishes to be abused in such a manner is probably a person who is best to be avoided, IMO.

Okay, so what about pleasure then?

Assume you let your guy handcuff you to a bed and put a blindfold on you, so he can go to town on you with a vibrator or something.

You both agree that he will stop if you say so ahead of time.

Is that "abusive" as well? The same general principles apply, after all.

What if a woman said to you, punch me in the face. I like it. Would you do it? I don't think you would. You would probably think she is crazy and avoid her.

Well... Yea.

However, I don't think 50 Shades was that extreme.

I think most of it was along the lines of what I described earlier. lol

Anyway, we can talk more about it later. I have to get going. I took the day off to run some errands and instead I've been sitting here arguing all day. These kinds of discussions really draw you in, you know? The psyche behind these types of activities is just fascinating. TTYL, Sarge!

TTYL!

 

[ChrisL]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that it is not right to hurt someone even if they tell you it's okay. I can't help but to think what kind of person would get their rocks off on hurting someone. Someone sick, IMO.

 

[ChrisL]

That is completely different than tying someone up and inflicting pain upon them, to the point where said person needs to use a "safe" word to stop them. A person who wishes to be abused in such a manner is probably a person who is best to be avoided, IMO.

Okay, so what about pleasure then?

Assume you let your guy handcuff you to a bed and put a blindfold on you, so he can go to town on you with a vibrator or something.

You both agree that he will stop if you say so ahead of time.

Is that "abusive" as well? The same general principles apply, after all.

What if a woman said to you, punch me in the face. I like it. Would you do it? I don't think you would. You would probably think she is crazy and avoid her.

Well... Yea.

However, I don't think 50 Shades was that extreme.

I think most of it was along the lines of what I described earlier. lol

Anyway, we can talk more about it later. I have to get going. I took the day off to run some errands and instead I've been sitting here arguing all day. These kinds of discussions really draw you in, you know? The psyche behind these types of activities is just fascinating. TTYL, Sarge!

TTYL!

I'm back now if you wanted to argue some more! I'll be here for a little while.

 

[Disir]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that it is not right to hurt someone even if they tell you it's okay. I can't help but to think what kind of person would get their rocks off on hurting someone. Someone sick, IMO.

And that's fine. I think you're rather disturbing.

 

[ChrisL]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that it is not right to hurt someone even if they tell you it's okay. I can't help but to think what kind of person would get their rocks off on hurting someone. Someone sick, IMO.

And that's fine. I think you're rather disturbing.

How so? Because I don't think it's right to inflict pain upon other people and to enjoy it?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence"

Protesters exhibiting their ignorance, as the movie 'glamorizes' no such thing.

 

[ChrisL]

"Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence"

Protesters exhibiting their ignorance, as the movie 'glamorizes' no such thing.

Sure it does. For teens and other impressionable young people, it is all the rage.

 

[Iceweasel]

"Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence"

Protesters exhibiting their ignorance, as the movie 'glamorizes' no such thing.

It looked like it did from the previews I saw. I guess Hollywood doesn't glamorize guns either.

 

[ChrisL]

"Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence"

Protesters exhibiting their ignorance, as the movie 'glamorizes' no such thing.

It looked like it did from the previews I saw. I guess Hollywood doesn't glamorize guns either.

Another point lost in all of this is that some people are very insecure and will go along with things that they might not necessarily like or enjoy so that they do not "lose" the one they think they love. This is especially true of younger people who are struggling with their own identity still.

 

[Disir]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to di

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think that it is not right to hurt someone even if they tell you it's okay. I can't help but to think what kind of person would get their rocks off on hurting someone. Someone sick, IMO.

And that's fine. I think you're rather disturbing.

How so? Because I don't think it's right to inflict pain upon other people and to enjoy it?

It's your lack of knowledge, perpetual victim hood stance.

If it is safe, sane and between consenting human adults it really is no concern of yours.

 

[Iceweasel]

"Protests: Fifty Shades as Glamorizing Domestic Violence"

Protesters exhibiting their ignorance, as the movie 'glamorizes' no such thing.

It looked like it did from the previews I saw. I guess Hollywood doesn't glamorize guns either.

Another point lost in all of this is that some people are very insecure and will go along with things that they might not necessarily like or enjoy so that they do not "lose" the one they think they love. This is especially true of younger people who are struggling with their own identity still.

Well that's just it. When something is "normalized" the young especially will go for it not knowing any better.

 

[Iceweasel]

How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to di

And that's fine. I think you're rather disturbing.

How so? Because I don't think it's right to inflict pain upon other people and to enjoy it?

It's your lack of knowledge, perpetual victim hood stance.

If it is safe, sane and between consenting human adults it really is no concern of yours.

Why do you guys keep saying that? No one is trying to take away your right to whip each other with riding crops while hanging upside down covered in spaggetti sauce. Knock yourself out but don't try to pass it off as something perfectly normal.

 

[ChrisL]

I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.

If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.

Well, you and I will have to agree to di

How so? Because I don't think it's right to inflict pain upon other people and to enjoy it?

It's your lack of knowledge, perpetual victim hood stance.

If it is safe, sane and between consenting human adults it really is no concern of yours.

Why do you guys keep saying that? No one is trying to take away your right to whip each other with riding crops while hanging upside down covered in spaggetti sauce. Knock yourself out but don't try to pass it off as something perfectly normal.