Debate Now Prove your case! Is Homosexuality genetic or a choice?

[ChrisL]

If two men are living together, why do you care one way or the other whether they call their arrangement marriage or not? It's actually none of your business.

I don't care what THEY call it... they are free to call it whatever they like. I am opposed to the state sanctioning it through the law.

But look... why are we having this debate? Are you longing for the days of the past where you could bash people over the head and call them bigots and homophobes? Waxing nostalgic a bit? What's the deal? You GOT your Gay Marriage in all 50 states.

We'll now get to see all the ramifications and consequences you were warned would happen as a result. Trannies in bathrooms is one example... polygamy is just around the corner... then it's on to child marriage and marrying your pets. It's not going to stop with the gays getting hitched... that is the tip of the iceberg. Sexual identity and behavior is now a protected class under the Constitution. Thanks a lot!

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

 

[Boss]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

 

[ChrisL]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

 

[Boss]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

 

[sealybobo]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Being gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.

He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.

 

[ChrisL]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

Ooo. Somebody's getting angry, as usual. Lol.

You are selfish and wanting to deny people their wishes and their happiness. Perhaps if you minded your own business and worried about your own self, you wouldn't be so worried about the homosexuals and what they are doing?

 

[sealybobo]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

Ooo. Somebody's getting angry, as usual. Lol.

You are selfish and wanting to deny people their wishes and their happiness. Perhaps if you minded your own business and worried about your own self, you wouldn't be so worried about the homosexuals and what they are doing?

He needs a better god because the one who mentors him now is raising a complete......

 

[westwall]

It's genetic. No amount of money would get me to want to make love to a dude. I don't find men attractive....ever. A gal with a nice behind sashays past though and I take notice.

Dear westwall
Orientation can be made in the womb without being genetic.
Studies on identical twins do not show 100% correspondence rate , so this is cited as proof it's not purely genetic but caused by other factors.
Studies on the brains show brains of gay males resemble those of heterosexual females, and the theory is that it could be chemical hormonal or neural changes in the womb while the brain is developing that could cause the crossing over in orientation or gender identity.

But no research has ever shown a genetic source, but on the contrary genetic research on twins has shown the opposite. Instead of 100% correspondence as genetic, the studies either show
* 10-14 % rate of correspondence according to one source
* 0 % in twins raised separately according to another source
* 50% according to a contested source that one poster here said has never been replicated
* or other sources citing slightly above 50% "at the most" which may show a tendency but is still not genetically determined.

Note 1: the 50% figures have been contested pending finding and citing the exact sources
Note 2: it can still be Spiritually determined like someone's faith as a theist nontheist Christian or nonchristian, which isn't genetic and may not be someone's choice what they believe or not.
I recommend legally treating orientation and identity as a Spiritually determined process so it has the same status as religion Creed or beliefs, and can neither be endorsed nor excluded by govt laws or institutions.

If it happens in the womb, it's genetic. There is no outside environmental cause. Like I said, I am not attracted to men, there is no choice involved. It is fact, it is biology. My sister, who is lesbian, feels the exact same way. There is no amount of money that you could pay her to get her to sleep with a man, much less have sex with one.

Some people are desperate enough to have sex for money with the same gender, some people are naturally bisexual, regardless of a person's sexual inclination the fact remains that it is not "learned" behavior in the vast majority of cases.

It is ingrained within their very being.

Dear westwall, I think the term is CONGENITAL not genetic
for when it happens in the womb.

A. it's not like RACE that is technically determined BEFORE birth, and to some degree even before conception. If those two parents get together, that already determines the gene pool they are limited to in producing children.

B. Orientation/gender identity, even if developed in the womb and/or specifically in the brain "AFTER the genetics of the individual has already been determined AT CONCEPTION" can still change IN SOME CASES, (unlike RACE that can never change because it is already genetically determined and limited to the chromosomes/DNA from both parents.)

Do you see the difference?
I think you mean CONGENITAL.

(and NO this does NOT apply to people who report homosexual attractions caused by "sexual abuse after they were born" where one they HEALED of the abuse some of these people are able to CHANGE that orientation to their natural born heterosexual identity. So there ARE cases where the homosexuality was STILL NOT A CHOICE but wasn't caused during or before birth.)

Yes, I understand the semantics, and the science, and I also understand that the wiggling doesn't matter. Sexual orientation is not a choice.

Dear westwall
Sure you and I can agree it is not a choice.
But that still does not justify imposing govt policies based on this.
It is NOT the same as gender/race that is determined by genetics.

the problem is westwall
people don't BELIEVE the same, and neither side's BELIEFS
are PROVEN OR DISPROVEN BY SCIENCE.

There ARE cases where people could change, even though
neither the orientation before or the orientation after was a choice.
The choice they had was to make peace with whatever they turn out to be.

So because it remains UNPROVEN either way, westwall,
then it is still FAITH BASED.

This belief it is not a choice is equally faith based
as believing in Jesus or God, or that good conquers bad.

Not proven. These are beliefs, and since other people don't
believe agree or consent to these beliefs,
then govt CANNOT be abused to endorse or force beliefs on others.

So this must remain a free choice to decide what to believe
in which cases.

Even if it isn't someone's choice, this cannot be proven.

How about we get government out of all of our lives period. Government is a necessary evil that should be controlled to the utmost let it get out and infect everything.

No one should give a rats ass who someone else sleeps with. Anyone who thinks that providing services to a gay marriage somehow implies the provider supports gay marriage, or worse yet will suddenly become gay is asinine.

Do your business, bake the cake and get on with life.

 

[ChrisL]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Being gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.

He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.

I don't know what causes a person to be gay. That is still a mystery among the medical community too. Like you said, in some instances it just may be a choice and in others it may not be. It all depends I suppose, but it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not IMO. If that is what a person wants to do with a consenting adult and isn't hurting anyone else, then it really doesn't and shouldn't matter to all the busy bodies who want to insinuate themselves into other people's private lives.

 

[sealybobo]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Being gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.

He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.

I don't know what causes a person to be gay. That is still a mystery among the medical community too. Like you said, in some instances it just may be a choice and in others it may not be. It all depends I suppose, but it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not IMO. If that is what a person wants to do with a consenting adult and isn't hurting anyone else, then it really doesn't and shouldn't matter to all the busy bodies who want to insinuate themselves into other people's private lives.

And anyone who doesn't get that is unamerican

 

[ChrisL]

Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?

Already explained above.

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Being gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.

He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.

I don't know what causes a person to be gay. That is still a mystery among the medical community too. Like you said, in some instances it just may be a choice and in others it may not be. It all depends I suppose, but it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not IMO. If that is what a person wants to do with a consenting adult and isn't hurting anyone else, then it really doesn't and shouldn't matter to all the busy bodies who want to insinuate themselves into other people's private lives.

And anyone who doesn't get that is unamerican

I don't know if I would go THAT far. I prefer to call them busybodies. I don't know why gay people cause them such anxiety. Is it insecurity or something? Not sure.

 

[miketx]

Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?

Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."

"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."

" I wanna be president when I grow up."

"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."

"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."

I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.




But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,

"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."

"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."

"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."

Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.

Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.

 

[ChrisL]

Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?

Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."

"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."

" I wanna be president when I grow up."

"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."

"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."

I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.




But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,

"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."

"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."

"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."

Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.

Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.

Lol! That's kind of "primitive" thinking though. You may not like or agree with liberals, but plenty of them are firefighters, policemen, military people, etc., etc. We even have one for POTUS!

 

[Boss]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

Ooo. Somebody's getting angry, as usual. Lol.

You are selfish and wanting to deny people their wishes and their happiness. Perhaps if you minded your own business and worried about your own self, you wouldn't be so worried about the homosexuals and what they are doing?

I'm not angry, I am annoyed. Nothing I believe is denying anyone anything other than a piece of paper issued by the state, and they aren't even denied that now. My answer to your question had nothing to do with me being selfish... being concerned about the cultural foundation of family in society isn't me being selfish.

What your "selfish/deny people happiness" bullshit is all about is the same thing as silly boob's implications that I am secretly gay... it's a way to smear me and insult me because I don't believe what you believe. YOU are the selfish little twit. So don't project that crap onto me.

 

[ChrisL]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

Ooo. Somebody's getting angry, as usual. Lol.

You are selfish and wanting to deny people their wishes and their happiness. Perhaps if you minded your own business and worried about your own self, you wouldn't be so worried about the homosexuals and what they are doing?

I'm not angry, I am annoyed. Nothing I believe is denying anyone anything other than a piece of paper issued by the state, and they aren't even denied that now. My answer to your question had nothing to do with me being selfish... being concerned about the cultural foundation of family in society isn't me being selfish.

What your "selfish/deny people happiness" bullshit is all about is the same thing as silly boob's implications that I am secretly gay... it's a way to smear me and insult me because I don't believe what you believe. YOU are the selfish little twit. So don't project that crap onto me.

I think you are projecting . . . something. Hmm.

 

[ChrisL]

Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .

Here was my answer....

Well, first of all because marriage is a sacred union between a male and female and an important foundation for the institution of family. I think it's culturally important for that to remain intact and respected as such. Two homosexuals should have every right to live together as as couple and they should enjoy all the same perks as a traditional married couple... but what they have is not a marriage. If they want to pretend it's a marriage, I am fine with that... have a wedding and cake... throw rice... go on a honeymoon... knock yourself out... I just opposed establishing marriage by law based on sexual behavior.

Now, I am sorry Chris... I don't see one goddamn word in there about me not liking their reasons. Nor do I see where I want to deny people happiness or be selfish. So maybe your psychotic ass can point out how you're reading something that isn't there? Or maybe you just want to keep popping off your smart mouth without knowing a thing in the world about me?

Ooo. Somebody's getting angry, as usual. Lol.

You are selfish and wanting to deny people their wishes and their happiness. Perhaps if you minded your own business and worried about your own self, you wouldn't be so worried about the homosexuals and what they are doing?

I'm not angry, I am annoyed. Nothing I believe is denying anyone anything other than a piece of paper issued by the state, and they aren't even denied that now. My answer to your question had nothing to do with me being selfish... being concerned about the cultural foundation of family in society isn't me being selfish.

What your "selfish/deny people happiness" bullshit is all about is the same thing as silly boob's implications that I am secretly gay... it's a way to smear me and insult me because I don't believe what you believe. YOU are the selfish little twit. So don't project that crap onto me.

You cannot be against them being married and then claim that you are not against them being married. You are just contradicting your own self!

 

[miketx]

Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?

Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."

"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."

" I wanna be president when I grow up."

"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."

"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."

I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.




But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,

"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."

"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."

"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."

Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.

Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.

Lol! That's kind of "primitive" thinking though. You may not like or agree with liberals, but plenty of them are firefighters, policemen, military people, etc., etc. We even have one for POTUS!

There are very few libs that are cops or military. They don't have the character for it.

 

[Boss]

You cannot be against them being married and then claim that you are not against them being married. You are just contradicting your own self!

I am against them being "married" because I don't consider what they have to be a marriage. A marriage is the sacred union of a man and woman and it has a cultural significance as the foundation of family. It has nothing to do with gay people. I am also opposed to people marrying their dogs and it has nothing to do with the happiness of the zoophile or their dog. I'm also opposed to pedophiles marrying children... has nothing to do with me not wanting them to be happy. We establish all kinds of laws every single day and it's not ever because we don't want someone to be happy. Can you even imagine what society would devolve into if we start striking down laws on the basis that they make someone unhappy?

I happen to have a lot of gay friends and very liberal friends who firmly believe in gay marriage. I also have gay friends who didn't support gay marriage, believe it or not. They, like myself, felt that marriage was a sacred institution we didn't need to mess with in order to give gay people the benefits they sought. I don't have any problem with gay people, they are some of my closest and dearest friends. But people like YOU continue to judge me based on my opinion. And let me tell you something else... you would never in a million years, see me do like silly boob and USE gay to try and insult somebody.

 

[ChrisL]

You cannot be against them being married and then claim that you are not against them being married. You are just contradicting your own self!

I am against them being "married" because I don't consider what they have to be a marriage. A marriage is the sacred union of a man and woman and it has a cultural significance as the foundation of family. It has nothing to do with gay people. I am also opposed to people marrying their dogs and it has nothing to do with the happiness of the zoophile or their dog. I'm also opposed to pedophiles marrying children... has nothing to do with me not wanting them to be happy. We establish all kinds of laws every single day and it's not ever because we don't want someone to be happy. Can you even imagine what society would devolve into if we start striking down laws on the basis that they make someone unhappy?

I happen to have a lot of gay friends and very liberal friends who firmly believe in gay marriage. I also have gay friends who didn't support gay marriage, believe it or not. They, like myself, felt that marriage was a sacred institution we didn't need to mess with in order to give gay people the benefits they sought. I don't have any problem with gay people, they are some of my closest and dearest friends. But people like YOU continue to judge me based on my opinion. And let me tell you something else... you would never in a million years, see me do like silly boob and USE gay to try and insult somebody.

Well, I didn't say you were gay, so leave me out of that argument.

I'm not judging you, you fool! You started this thread. If you don't care, then why start threads about homosexuals?

Besides, other people don't have to live by your beliefs. This is America.

 

[Boss]

Well, I didn't say you were gay, so leave me out of that argument.

I'm not judging you, you fool! You started this thread. If you don't care, then why start threads about homosexuals?

Besides, other people don't have to live by your beliefs. This is America.

Uhm... I didn't start this thread.

I also didn't say everyone has to live by my beliefs.