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I'm not judging you, you fool!
Well, I didn't say you were gay, so leave me out of that argument.
I'm not judging you, you fool! You started this thread. If you don't care, then why start threads about homosexuals?
Besides, other people don't have to live by your beliefs. This is America.
Uhm... I didn't start this thread.
I also didn't say everyone has to live by my beliefs.
I'm not judging you, you fool!
Well, when you say that I am being selfish and want to deny people their happiness... that is judging me. When you say you think I want other people to live by my beliefs... that's judging me. When you continue to ask questions implying that I am some kind of homophobe who doesn't approve of the kind of sex people have... that's judging me.
So, yes... FOOL... you ARE judging me, whether your bigoted ass realizes it or not!
I'm not judging you, you fool!
Well, when you say that I am being selfish and want to deny people their happiness... that is judging me. When you say you think I want other people to live by my beliefs... that's judging me. When you continue to ask questions implying that I am some kind of homophobe who doesn't approve of the kind of sex people have... that's judging me.
So, yes... FOOL... you ARE judging me, whether your bigoted ass realizes it or not!
Dear westwallDear westwall
Orientation can be made in the womb without being genetic.
Studies on identical twins do not show 100% correspondence rate , so this is cited as proof it's not purely genetic but caused by other factors.
Studies on the brains show brains of gay males resemble those of heterosexual females, and the theory is that it could be chemical hormonal or neural changes in the womb while the brain is developing that could cause the crossing over in orientation or gender identity.
But no research has ever shown a genetic source, but on the contrary genetic research on twins has shown the opposite. Instead of 100% correspondence as genetic, the studies either show
* 10-14 % rate of correspondence according to one source
* 0 % in twins raised separately according to another source
* 50% according to a contested source that one poster here said has never been replicated
* or other sources citing slightly above 50% "at the most" which may show a tendency but is still not genetically determined.
Note 1: the 50% figures have been contested pending finding and citing the exact sources
Note 2: it can still be Spiritually determined like someone's faith as a theist nontheist Christian or nonchristian, which isn't genetic and may not be someone's choice what they believe or not.
I recommend legally treating orientation and identity as a Spiritually determined process so it has the same status as religion Creed or beliefs, and can neither be endorsed nor excluded by govt laws or institutions.
If it happens in the womb, it's genetic. There is no outside environmental cause. Like I said, I am not attracted to men, there is no choice involved. It is fact, it is biology. My sister, who is lesbian, feels the exact same way. There is no amount of money that you could pay her to get her to sleep with a man, much less have sex with one.
Some people are desperate enough to have sex for money with the same gender, some people are naturally bisexual, regardless of a person's sexual inclination the fact remains that it is not "learned" behavior in the vast majority of cases.
It is ingrained within their very being.
Dear westwall, I think the term is CONGENITAL not genetic
for when it happens in the womb.
A. it's not like RACE that is technically determined BEFORE birth, and to some degree even before conception. If those two parents get together, that already determines the gene pool they are limited to in producing children.
B. Orientation/gender identity, even if developed in the womb and/or specifically in the brain "AFTER the genetics of the individual has already been determined AT CONCEPTION" can still change IN SOME CASES, (unlike RACE that can never change because it is already genetically determined and limited to the chromosomes/DNA from both parents.)
Do you see the difference?
I think you mean CONGENITAL.
(and NO this does NOT apply to people who report homosexual attractions caused by "sexual abuse after they were born" where one they HEALED of the abuse some of these people are able to CHANGE that orientation to their natural born heterosexual identity. So there ARE cases where the homosexuality was STILL NOT A CHOICE but wasn't caused during or before birth.)
Yes, I understand the semantics, and the science, and I also understand that the wiggling doesn't matter. Sexual orientation is not a choice.
Dear westwall
Sure you and I can agree it is not a choice.
But that still does not justify imposing govt policies based on this.
It is NOT the same as gender/race that is determined by genetics.
the problem is westwall
people don't BELIEVE the same, and neither side's BELIEFS
are PROVEN OR DISPROVEN BY SCIENCE.
There ARE cases where people could change, even though
neither the orientation before or the orientation after was a choice.
The choice they had was to make peace with whatever they turn out to be.
So because it remains UNPROVEN either way, westwall,
then it is still FAITH BASED.
This belief it is not a choice is equally faith based
as believing in Jesus or God, or that good conquers bad.
Not proven. These are beliefs, and since other people don't
believe agree or consent to these beliefs,
then govt CANNOT be abused to endorse or force beliefs on others.
So this must remain a free choice to decide what to believe
in which cases.
Even if it isn't someone's choice, this cannot be proven.
How about we get government out of all of our lives period. Government is a necessary evil that should be controlled to the utmost let it get out and infect everything.
No one should give a rats ass who someone else sleeps with. Anyone who thinks that providing services to a gay marriage somehow implies the provider supports gay marriage, or worse yet will suddenly become gay is asinine.
Do your business, bake the cake and get on with life.
Poor wittle bossy, getting all in a tizzy again.
Poor wittle bossy, getting all in a tizzy again.
No, I am not in a tizzy... just being honest, dear.
One of my nephews, he's so sweet, said "when I have a husband, I mean wife" the other nephew said, "husband?" And the little one said "no no no I don't want to be gay, I mean" and the other nephew said too late when he changed husband to wife. I wonder. We will see. But I'll love him no matter what.Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?
Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."
"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."
" I wanna be president when I grow up."
"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."
"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."
I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.
But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,
"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."
"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."
"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."
Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.
Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.
Lol! That's kind of "primitive" thinking though.
Thank you ChrisLBeing gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.Sanctioning it? Allowing it is different I think. Why are you against the state okaying gay marriage?
Already explained above.
Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .
He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.
I don't know what causes a person to be gay. That is still a mystery among the medical community too. Like you said, in some instances it just may be a choice and in others it may not be. It all depends I suppose, but it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not IMO. If that is what a person wants to do with a consenting adult and isn't hurting anyone else, then it really doesn't and shouldn't matter to all the busy bodies who want to insinuate themselves into other people's private lives.
I'll admit that's true. Id expect ex jock cops and grunts to be cons.Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?
Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."
"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."
" I wanna be president when I grow up."
"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."
"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."
I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.
But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,
"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."
"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."
"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."
Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.
Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.
Lol! That's kind of "primitive" thinking though.
There are very few libs that are cops or military. They don't have the character for it.
To me, you are selfish and judgmental about things that aren't your business. If two gay adults decide to get married, that should be of no concern to you. It has nothing to do with you.
To me, you are selfish and judgmental about things that aren't your business. If two gay adults decide to get married, that should be of no concern to you. It has nothing to do with you.
But societal culture is just as much my business as it is yours. And let's be clear, gays can marry in all 50 states now... been that way a while. I don't understand how this argument came up... I guess you idiots missed the old days when you could tee off on other people and judge them unfairly as bigots and homophobes because they didn't agree with you? Was the trannies in bathrooms thing not working or what???
Dear ChrisLAnd anyone who doesn't get that is unamericanBeing gay straight or bi is both genetic and sometimes a choice. If you were born a bi sexual, you could go either way and it is a choice. But if you were born straight or totally gay, its all genetic and you have no choice in the matter. Imagine boss sucking a dick. Is it a choice for him? Then he's bi. If he thinks being gay is a choice, then that is true for boss.Already explained above.
Not really a very good explanation for denying people their happiness. Because YOU don't like their reasons? Maybe if you didn't think of only yourself . . .
He needs to stop thinking of only himself and he has to stop thinking everything thinks like he does. We are all different. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the gayest Boss is a 2. Not very gay but gets hard at the thought of fucking other guys.
I don't know what causes a person to be gay. That is still a mystery among the medical community too. Like you said, in some instances it just may be a choice and in others it may not be. It all depends I suppose, but it doesn't really matter if it's a choice or not IMO. If that is what a person wants to do with a consenting adult and isn't hurting anyone else, then it really doesn't and shouldn't matter to all the busy bodies who want to insinuate themselves into other people's private lives.
I don't know if I would go THAT far. I prefer to call them busybodies.
To me, you are selfish and judgmental about things that aren't your business. If two gay adults decide to get married, that should be of no concern to you. It has nothing to do with you.
But societal culture is just as much my business as it is yours. And let's be clear, gays can marry in all 50 states now... been that way a while. I don't understand how this argument came up... I guess you idiots missed the old days when you could tee off on other people and judge them unfairly as bigots and homophobes because they didn't agree with you? Was the trannies in bathrooms thing not working or what???
But on the one hand you say it doesn't bother you, then on the other hand you say that it does. Pick!
This thread is about homosexuals, not trannies. Stay on point!
Why does it have to be a choice if it is not genetic? What exactly do you mean by genetic?That's it. No fancy thesis, no viewpoint of my own (yet). All that lies here is a challenge to you the reader to prove the origins of homosexuality. Who here can make the more compelling case for their side?
The rules are as follows:
1. No ad hominem (personal attacks)
2. No mention of any political party (Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican, et cetera).
3. No anti-Gay or anti-Christian commentary.
4. All arguments must be substantiated by citing credible and scientific sources.
5. No arguments based on emotional viewpoints.
6. No discussion regarding religious or non religious views of Homosexuality. Let the science (or your interpretation therein) do the talking.
7. Attempts to derail this thread will be actively reported to forum staff.
8. This thread will be governed under "Zone 1" regulations.
yes most "homosexuals" were born to heterosexuals except of course for those who were born to homosexuals using the same methods that heterosexuals sometimes use when they can't have children in the "normal way".and they will most likely be heterosexual.The point is that for children to have a trait related to genetics , it is not necessary for the parents to have those traits. Google epigenetic and recessive genesHomosexuals don't breed, hence genetic homosexuality is impossible.
cultural consequences.? I haven't noticed any in the 11 or so years since the first states legalized SSM. Can you clarify please?To me, you are selfish and judgmental about things that aren't your business. If two gay adults decide to get married, that should be of no concern to you. It has nothing to do with you.
But societal culture is just as much my business as it is yours. And let's be clear, gays can marry in all 50 states now... been that way a while. I don't understand how this argument came up... I guess you idiots missed the old days when you could tee off on other people and judge them unfairly as bigots and homophobes because they didn't agree with you? Was the trannies in bathrooms thing not working or what???
But on the one hand you say it doesn't bother you, then on the other hand you say that it does. Pick!
This thread is about homosexuals, not trannies. Stay on point!
Let's see if I can simplify it any more than I have for you.... Gay people don't bother me... Gay people doing gay things doesn't bother me... Gay people being happy doesn't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is the hijacking of marriage and codifying into law, marriages based on sexual behaviors. I think that was a mistake and we'll now suffer the cultural consequences.
Dear miketx I have met ppl, who knew all their lives they identified with the opposite gender. Some with orientation that they and/or their families knew early on.Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?
Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."
"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."
" I wanna be president when I grow up."
"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."
"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."
I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.
But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,
"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."
"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."
"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."
Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.
Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.
Dear miketx I have met ppl, who knew all their lives they identified with the opposite gender. Some with orientation that they and/or their families knew early on.Ok, I'll prove it. And we'll just use little boys, ok?
Little boys say:
"I wanna be a fireman when I grow up."
"I wanna be like daddy when I grow up."
" I wanna be president when I grow up."
"I wanna be a policeman when I grow up."
"I wanna be a doctor when I grow up."
I've heard many of them say these very things. Even my own sons.
But I have never heard a little boy say, and no one else has either,
"I wanna put a penis in my mouth when I grow up."
"I wanna have penis my rear end when I grow up."
"I wanna gerbil in my rear rear end when I grow up."
Never heard a little boy say they wanted to be a liberal when they grow up. They can't do both.
Nope. Never heard it. Never will. Case closed.
It may not be as specific as the actual sex acts, but more basic like a boy growing up and never relating to the male dress and behavior but relating to being a girl and growing up to be a woman.
I think it's a spiritual thing. If ppl have karma and are incarnated as male in female bodies to pay some debt by struggling through certain adverse conditions in this life and this society to reach a state of peace forgiveness and unconditional love. So it's not anyone's place to push this spiritual process onto other people and especially not thru govt. It's a deeply personal spiritual matter that I would keep on a private level to maintain maximum respect for freedom and choice.
Google identical twins.yes most "homosexuals" were born to heterosexuals except of course for those who were born to homosexuals using the same methods that heterosexuals sometimes use when they can't have children in the "normal way".and they will most likely be heterosexual.The point is that for children to have a trait related to genetics , it is not necessary for the parents to have those traits. Google epigenetic and recessive genesHomosexuals don't breed, hence genetic homosexuality is impossible.
