Public funded associates degree might actually be beneficial to society

Maryland Patriot

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2015
9,966
1,394
290
Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.
 
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so

that is now being done here in NC
 
If they taught "critical thinking" in High school instead of putting a condom on a banana we might get a generation of kids who can identify the first President of the United States.
 
If they taught "critical thinking" in High school instead of putting a condom on a banana we might get a generation of kids who can identify the first President of the United States.
well, they could just name the banana George. Take care of two problems at once.
 
AA degrees at community colleges are essentially tuition-free already
 
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so

that is now being done here in NC
It will be interesting to see the progress in that a few years from now. Im pretty sure that the results will be worth the small investment made. It might even work toward lowering the poverty rate in certain areas.
One thing for sure, If I owned a business and was looking for a place to build another plant, or if I was looking for a place to start a new business with a strong work force to pull from, I would seriously look at somewhere that all of the population had a degree of some sort. Yes I would expect to pay a higher wage but I think that the quality of the worker would be higher and basically worth that investment.
 
Two year degrees now have about the same value as high school did 20 years ago
a 4 year degree doesnt get you much any more either.
now you need a 4 year degree, 30 years experience, 1000 references, 3 papers published in trade journals and a public building or park named after you just to flip burgers at the corner fast food place.
 
Two year liberal arts degree or two years of trade school. After all not everyone is cut out for college. However, before either ensure the student is literate and can perform at a 12th grade level before moving on.
 
If they taught "critical thinking" in High school instead of putting a condom on a banana we might get a generation of kids who can identify the first President of the United States.

Republicans like to keep 'em stupid:

Report: Federal Education Funding Cut by 5 Times More Than All ...
www.usnews.com/.../report-federal-education-funding-cut-by-5-times-more-than-all-s...
Jun 24, 2015 - Congress has cut spending for K-12 education by nearly 20 percent ... Students and parents protest funding and staff cuts outside the office of ...
Why the GOP's Education Funding Bill Gets an F | Knowledge Bank ...
www.usnews.com/opinion/...bank/.../why-the-gops-education-funding-bill-gets-an-f
Jun 25, 2015 - I have a pop quiz for you: What is the best investment thefederal government ... In fact, House Republicans' cuts to educationprograms are so ...
House GOP Budget Gets 62 Percent of Budget Cuts From Low- and ...
www.cbpp.org/.../federal.../house-gop-budget-gets-62-percent-of-budget-cuts-from-l...
Mar 28, 2016 - The House Republican budget plan would prove especially harmful to low- and ... On top of that, the plan would impose a cap onfederal Medicaid ... of the $500 billion of entitlement cuts in the educationand income security ...
FACT SHEET: Republican Budget Cuts Education | House Budget ...
https://democrats-budget.house.gov/fact.../fact-sheet-republican-budget-cuts-educatio...
May 14, 2015 - Education in the Republican budget conference.pdf » TheRepublican ... year 2016 budget resolution makes many cuts in support foreducation. ... Federal student aid by state – The table on the next page shows the number ...
Republicans pass 2016 budget that cuts $5 trillion in social, education ...
www.rawstory.com/.../republicans-pass-2016-budget-that-cuts-5-trillion-in-social-edu...
May 6, 2015 - The Republican-led US Congress passed a 2016 budget, a largely symbolic policy document which if fully enacted would balancefederal ...
House Republicans want to cut back grants for poor college students ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../house-republicans-want-to-cut-back-grants-for-p...
Mar 18, 2015 - House Republicans want to freeze the maximum Pell Grant award for ... of a federal program allowing many of the country's poorest students attend college. ... 51 percent of Latino undergrads, according to the Education Trust.
House GOP Aims to Cut Education Funding, Including Obama ... - Blogs
blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/.../house_gop_moves_to_cut_educati.html
Jun 16, 2015 - In fact, the proposed spending level for federal educationprograms makes funding cuts below that of the pre-2008 sequester level. Here's a ...
This Is What Happens When Republicans Try to Destroy Public ...
What Happens When 85 People Are Worth the Same Amount as 3.5 Billion?republicans-try-destroy-public-edu...
Oct 8, 2014 - Outrage over deep budget cutbacks in key states is hurting theGOP. ... of Education would hurt the middle class and “eradicate” federal ...
New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts ...
www.ed.gov/.../new-data-show-house-republican-bill-would-allow-billions-cuts-large...
Feb 24, 2015 - New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts for Largest ... The U.S. Department of Education is releasing new data today ... more than $1.3 billion in federal funding: Baltimore City Public Schools (MD), ...
 
Two year degrees now have about the same value as high school did 20 years ago
a 4 year degree doesnt get you much any more either.
now you need a 4 year degree, 30 years experience, 1000 references, 3 papers published in trade journals and a public building or park named after you just to flip burgers at the corner fast food place.

I told my son 15 years ago if he would get a degree in computer science, I would pay for it. If he wanted a degree in marketing or language, he would pay for it. He got the BS in computer science then got his master's in CS and I don't think he will ever have to worry about having a job, or even looking for one. He gets calls from recruiters about twice a week.
 
The Trump admin needs to introduce vocational training schools where kids/young adults can learn hands-on trades that require a human being, like electricians, mechanics, plumbers, HVAC, agriculture, etc. That will keep jobs here in the States.
 
Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.

I'm all for publically funding higher education. The thing about Sanders' proposal though was it didn't require students actually earn anything. Even my very poor state of Mississippi has scholarships for low income kids who graduate HS with 3.0 and 3.5 gpas. However, students must maintain those grades in Jr. college and college

And meanwhile there are kids maxing out Pells and loans who have no intention of graduating or even paying back the money.
 
Two year degrees now have about the same value as high school did 20 years ago
a 4 year degree doesnt get you much any more either.
now you need a 4 year degree, 30 years experience, 1000 references, 3 papers published in trade journals and a public building or park named after you just to flip burgers at the corner fast food place.

I told my son 15 years ago if he would get a degree in computer science, I would pay for it. If he wanted a degree in marketing or language, he would pay for it. He got the BS in computer science then got his master's in CS and I don't think he will ever have to worry about having a job, or even looking for one. He gets calls from recruiters about twice a week.
my first degree is in computer science, I basically made my living in the field from 1984 until a couple years ago. I now have a degree in social work with a specialty of working with the mentally ill and those that suffer chemical addiction and at 58 years old Im almost done with my degree in psychology.
Your son is going to do just great with what he has going for him.
But, wouldn't he have been smarter to do nothing and then claim its the rich guys fault while collecting a check from the government?
 
If they taught "critical thinking" in High school instead of putting a condom on a banana we might get a generation of kids who can identify the first President of the United States.

Republicans like to keep 'em stupid:

Report: Federal Education Funding Cut by 5 Times More Than All ...
www.usnews.com/.../report-federal-education-funding-cut-by-5-times-more-than-all-s...
Jun 24, 2015 - Congress has cut spending for K-12 education by nearly 20 percent ... Students and parents protest funding and staff cuts outside the office of ...
Why the GOP's Education Funding Bill Gets an F | Knowledge Bank ...
www.usnews.com/opinion/...bank/.../why-the-gops-education-funding-bill-gets-an-f
Jun 25, 2015 - I have a pop quiz for you: What is the best investment thefederal government ... In fact, House Republicans' cuts to educationprograms are so ...
House GOP Budget Gets 62 Percent of Budget Cuts From Low- and ...
www.cbpp.org/.../federal.../house-gop-budget-gets-62-percent-of-budget-cuts-from-l...
Mar 28, 2016 - The House Republican budget plan would prove especially harmful to low- and ... On top of that, the plan would impose a cap onfederal Medicaid ... of the $500 billion of entitlement cuts in the educationand income security ...
FACT SHEET: Republican Budget Cuts Education | House Budget ...
https://democrats-budget.house.gov/fact.../fact-sheet-republican-budget-cuts-educatio...
May 14, 2015 - Education in the Republican budget conference.pdf » TheRepublican ... year 2016 budget resolution makes many cuts in support foreducation. ... Federal student aid by state – The table on the next page shows the number ...
Republicans pass 2016 budget that cuts $5 trillion in social, education ...
www.rawstory.com/.../republicans-pass-2016-budget-that-cuts-5-trillion-in-social-edu...
May 6, 2015 - The Republican-led US Congress passed a 2016 budget, a largely symbolic policy document which if fully enacted would balancefederal ...
House Republicans want to cut back grants for poor college students ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../house-republicans-want-to-cut-back-grants-for-p...
Mar 18, 2015 - House Republicans want to freeze the maximum Pell Grant award for ... of a federal program allowing many of the country's poorest students attend college. ... 51 percent of Latino undergrads, according to the Education Trust.
House GOP Aims to Cut Education Funding, Including Obama ... - Blogs
blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/.../house_gop_moves_to_cut_educati.html
Jun 16, 2015 - In fact, the proposed spending level for federal educationprograms makes funding cuts below that of the pre-2008 sequester level. Here's a ...
This Is What Happens When Republicans Try to Destroy Public ...
What Happens When 85 People Are Worth the Same Amount as 3.5 Billion?republicans-try-destroy-public-edu...
Oct 8, 2014 - Outrage over deep budget cutbacks in key states is hurting theGOP. ... of Education would hurt the middle class and “eradicate” federal ...
New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts ...
www.ed.gov/.../new-data-show-house-republican-bill-would-allow-billions-cuts-large...
Feb 24, 2015 - New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts for Largest ... The U.S. Department of Education is releasing new data today ... more than $1.3 billion in federal funding: Baltimore City Public Schools (MD), ...

There is a lack of accountability in student aid.
 
You had me up to the "liberal arts" part.

Make it a BS type program instead and maybe, but LAS degrees from 4 year schools are worthless already, imo.

Maybe create one that deals with some math, finance, science etc instead of having to pick just one, which then preps them to continue in those types of fields. Now we're encouraging movement in that direction and I'm all ears.
 
Two year degrees now have about the same value as high school did 20 years ago
a 4 year degree doesnt get you much any more either.
now you need a 4 year degree, 30 years experience, 1000 references, 3 papers published in trade journals and a public building or park named after you just to flip burgers at the corner fast food place.
Hidden Question: "If You're So Smart, Why Haven't You Made the Rich Richer?"

The cause of that kind of economy is itself the class-biased indentured servitude of college education, which puts inferior people people in superior positions. If students aren't paid for their grades, they aren't worth anything.

Notice that the slogan (which will be America's epitaph) is "To get a good job, get a good education," not "To do a good job." Notice also how it's coming from only one side, when the talented should be the ones to demand of the corporate parasites, "If you want the most productive employees, you better pay us a high salary and free tuition to learn the skills you need."
 
What we doi not want are factory laborers. Nobody should be punished working those jobs. It would be a great thing if emp!Oyers complained they have nobody to fill those jobs. No more blue collar workers are needed.
 

Forum List

Back
Top