Putin has placed his hand on the proverbial chopping block, does Obama have the nerve

[Sallow]

To do what must be done & chop it off? This is an easy opportunity that Putin himself has served up to Obama. Putin has made Obama look foolish at every turn up to this point. This is Obama's chance to oust Putin from the world stage, does he have what it takes to do it?

First off, there is no "chopping" off of the hand. Diplomacy and Geopolitics is a chess game.

The whole world knows that Russian operatives shot down that plane. The US even claims to have actual footage of the launcher being driven back across the Russian border. Putin still has 10's of thousands of troops directly on the border. Putin could immediately allow investigators onto the crash scene if he wasn't trying to cover it up.

Balls in your court Obama

And playing the "ball" right includes deliberate and careful strategy.

Even when it seems everything is in your favor? Overplaying it generally leads to bad outcomes.

 

[Sallow]

When you give a dummy a weapon and he shoots the wrong thing you are responsible for him having the weapon, not so much what he does with it, you claim Putin has control but the situation is more closely akin to the US arming the Mujahedin in Afghanistan or any other place where we meddled. We just gave weapons to the people we thought would use them in our interests and hope they keep their word.

Some truth in that. Except all the leaders of the rebels are ex Russian military. Some of them high ranking at that. They were sent into Ukrainian to lead a rebellion that did not exist before their arrival. With them came the weapons.

Whatever aim Putin had to send those people in there is not turning out as planned, I can guarantee that.

Putin wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union.

He's not at all subtle about it either.

 

[occupied]

Some truth in that. Except all the leaders of the rebels are ex Russian military. Some of them high ranking at that. They were sent into Ukrainian to lead a rebellion that did not exist before their arrival. With them came the weapons.

Whatever aim Putin had to send those people in there is not turning out as planned, I can guarantee that.

Putin wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union.

He's not at all subtle about it either.

I think he expected people to quickly succumb to force and welcome Russian order over the chaos he himself unleashed. Also I think Putin thinks in terms of a game of "risk" where territory is the only object.

 

[pvsi]

Putin could immediately allow investigators onto the crash scene if he wasn't trying to cover it up.

The world already knows how Americans investigated 9:11, but I do believe Putin is in the same game as Obama and Bush, paid in fact by the same money masters. So I do not completely disagree with you.

 

[pvsi]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

Sounds fair to me, but as I say: they are all playing a game on us, the human beings, and we are playing experts supporting candidate this over candidate that.

 

[bodecea]

Obama is the face of our nation. His response is most certainly his own to fuck up is it not?

So you admit you are trying to make this all Obama's fault.

I admit that you seem to be incapable of participating in the conversation without sharing your irrational phobias. I have CLEARLY stated who is responsible for the act dimwit. Go be paranoid in another thread.

So...why do you cry on and on about Obama then?

 

[pvsi]

Putin has no control over anything there, he just stirred the pot towards anarchy and is hoping things will eventually pan out in his favor. Besides he would have to invade with troops to do any of that and you do not want that to happen.

Putin has no control over the Russian separatists, I agree. I have seen Russians, or people claiming to be, write that they do not WANT those from Ukraine as part of the RUSSIA. Putin cannot control the Russian youth, how can he control the terrorists? Russia will SELL them weapons, and as you noted, hope it all goes away.

Putin most certainly does have control. The leader of the so called separatists is ex Russian military.

If Putin had control and would not be a puppet like your president Obongo, then Putin would tell all the international bankers to get the f out of his country and that their money printing services are no longer needed in Russia. But instead the despot in debt regimes of EU/USA put sanctions on him (orders of masters) and Putin does nothing.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So you admit you are trying to make this all Obama's fault.

I admit that you seem to be incapable of participating in the conversation without sharing your irrational phobias. I have CLEARLY stated who is responsible for the act dimwit. Go be paranoid in another thread.

So...why do you cry on and on about Obama then?

I may indeed. While we're at it why don't you remain oblivious & continue contributing absolutely nothing to the thread.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Putin has no control over the Russian separatists, I agree. I have seen Russians, or people claiming to be, write that they do not WANT those from Ukraine as part of the RUSSIA. Putin cannot control the Russian youth, how can he control the terrorists? Russia will SELL them weapons, and as you noted, hope it all goes away.

Putin most certainly does have control. The leader of the so called separatists is ex Russian military.

If Putin had control and would not be a puppet like your president Obongo, then Putin would tell all the international bankers to get the f out of his country and that their money printing services are no longer needed in Russia. But instead the despot in debt regimes of EU/USA put sanctions on him (orders of masters) and Putin does nothing.

Because Russians starving in a bankrupt nation was so much better?

 

[CTSV]

I woke up too early this morning and spent a couple of hours watching various news channels.

I would speculate that this is a reasonable summary of the situation:
- The command structure of the "Russian Separatists" is largely comprised of former Russian special forces
- This command structure was largely being guided by Russia, Putin perhaps setting the broad strategy
- I doubt very much that Putin himself ordered the SAM 11s to the Ukraine, but since they apparently shot down other planes before this, it would seem he had to be aware this occurred
- I doubt very much that Putin himself ordered a shoot down of the passenger plane, I suspect this was simply a terrible error in the chain of command
- My understanding is that the SAM 11s have a "Transponder Mode" that would have given the operators warning that the plane was a commercial airliner, but that mode must be manually activated prior to firing, and perhaps that was never done

If I imagine this to be a reasonably accurate summary of the situation I think our response
- should not include any direct military action
- should not include shipping our own weapons to the region for use by the Ukraine
- should include any humanitarian supplies that the Ukraine might request
- should include US crash investigators
- should include more economic sanctions
- should include pressure on our European allies to step up their economic sanctions

 

[Katzndogz]

There's no basis to demand that Americans do anything. A single dual citizen passenger on an international flight does not confer the right to run into another country and blunder about. The insurance company for Malaysian Airlines is in Germany. They have a right to investigate. We don't. There is not a single American interest. Even the lone dual citizen's family is in the Netherlands.

If obama annoys Putin enough, Putin will just cut obama's balls off with Iran and he should. Sooner rather than later.

 

[Peach]

There's no basis to demand that Americans do anything. A single dual citizen passenger on an international flight does not confer the right to run into another country and blunder about. The insurance company for Malaysian Airlines is in Germany. They have a right to investigate. We don't. There is not a single American interest. Even the lone dual citizen's family is in the Netherlands.

If obama annoys Putin enough, Putin will just cut obama's balls off with Iran and he should. Sooner rather than later.

Europe stands with the US, Putin's testicles are shrinking as quickly as his brains. US radar caught an image of the rocket being fired.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

I see Obama followed these ideas of mine. 4 days after the crash and as the stench from the bodies is unbearable according to reporters.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

I see Obama followed these ideas of mine. 4 days after the crash and as the stench from the bodies is unbearable according to reporters.

Yeah. Those are your ideas. He followed your directions.

 

[ClosedCaption]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

...What about the consequences? If Putin doesnt go by his demands there has to be consequneces right?

What should those consequences be? Or are empty demands more attractive and "badass"?

 

[ClosedCaption]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

I see Obama followed these ideas of mine. 4 days after the crash and as the stench from the bodies is unbearable according to reporters.

Didn't Reagan respond in 4 days too? Are Obama days different than Reagan days? Like Dog years?

 

[Moonglow]

You know you're under the capitalistic thumb when rich people are chiding Pootin' for isolating them from their money markets..

 

[dilloduck]

There's no basis to demand that Americans do anything. A single dual citizen passenger on an international flight does not confer the right to run into another country and blunder about. The insurance company for Malaysian Airlines is in Germany. They have a right to investigate. We don't. There is not a single American interest. Even the lone dual citizen's family is in the Netherlands.

If obama annoys Putin enough, Putin will just cut obama's balls off with Iran and he should. Sooner rather than later.

Europe stands with the US, Putin's testicles are shrinking as quickly as his brains. US radar caught an image of the rocket being fired.

Big woo====who pulled the trigger ? Probably a separatist accidently shot it down--now what ?

 

[Moonglow]

Putin has no control over the Russian separatists, I agree. I have seen Russians, or people claiming to be, write that they do not WANT those from Ukraine as part of the RUSSIA. Putin cannot control the Russian youth, how can he control the terrorists? Russia will SELL them weapons, and as you noted, hope it all goes away.

Putin most certainly does have control. The leader of the so called separatists is ex Russian military.

If Putin had control and would not be a puppet like your president Obongo, then Putin would tell all the international bankers to get the f out of his country and that their money printing services are no longer needed in Russia. But instead the despot in debt regimes of EU/USA put sanctions on him (orders of masters) and Putin does nothing.

Showing that yet again, the pen is mightier than the sword...

 

[kidrocks]

What do you want him to do?

Play golf?

Fundraisers?

How about putting himself in front of a camera on the world stage and DEMAND Putin let the investigators in? DEMAND that Putin control the scene until investigators arrive? DEMAND that the looters be arrested?

Or golf?

He did that already. Try to keep up.