Putin says he wants to “de-Nazify” Ukraine even though their president is Jewish

[Colin norris]

Explain this one to me….

Putin claims he wants to “DeNazify” Ukraine, even though the president of Ukraine is Jewish.

Attacking Ukraine, Putin calls for ‘denazification’ of country with a Jewish leader

Russian president says military operation meant to 'protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide'

www.timesofisrael.com

And still no noise from the right on here.

Today Putin said he giving them freedom from Nazism. A dictator liberating them with the choice to experience another dictator replacing democracy.
That idiot is madder than trump.

 

[rupol2000]

bendog
They have their own accent. Recently I met a girl from Donbass, I immediately realized that she was from Ukraine. She spoke with the same accent as approximately in Kharkov and Zaporozhye.

 

[rupol2000]

bendog
I have never been to the Donbas itself, but their accent does not differ from the Central Ukrainian one. This is historically the land of the Don Cossacks(and they were not Muscovites). The Don dialect was intermediate between Ukrainian and Russian.

Balachka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But now this is not on the Don, neither in the Donbass nor in Rostov, it is a dead language.

 

[rupol2000]

bendog
The Russians also began to speak Moscow recently, there was no homogeneity, the southern Russians were closer to the Cossacks and Ukrainians, and by origin they are Poles. The Ukrainian language is identical to Polish, and the southern Russians spoke a dialect that is closer to Polish and further away from Balticized Russian

 

[rupol2000]

And what they call northern dialects is the influence of the Sami substrate

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Explain this one to me….

Putin claims he wants to “DeNazify” Ukraine, even though the president of Ukraine is Jewish.

Attacking Ukraine, Putin calls for ‘denazification’ of country with a Jewish leader

Russian president says military operation meant to 'protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide'

www.timesofisrael.com

I think I can explain it.
Maybe what he meant was that he didn't want "a trudeau style canada" on his border

 

[rupol2000]

The central dialects are the influence of the Golyadi, a Baltic tribe. And it's not their native language. They had a Golyad dialect of Baltic

 

[Colin norris]

Hey Guno, you Nazi pile of shit - why didn't Putin finish his invasion when we had a REAL president, you fucking moron?

The invasion was started, but something happened in 2016 - now that something is gone.

Wonder what it could be, stupid fuck?

You don't like a bit of fact son. While your hypocrisy stays in tact, the pressure will increase.

 

[bendog]

I'm not disputing there are Russian first language people in Donbass, and I think only Crimea had a smaller majority of voters who voted for independence from Russia, but there was not a political will for separation from Ukraine [edit].
In the 1991 referendum on Ukrainian independence, 83.9% of voters in Donetsk Oblast and 83.6% in Luhansk Oblast supported independence from the Soviet Union. Turnout was 76.7% in Donetsk Oblast and 80.7% in Luhansk Oblast.[38] In October 1991, a congress of South-Eastern deputies from all levels of government took place in Donetsk, where delegates demanded federalisation.[27]

The region's economy deteriorated severely in the ensuing years. By 1993, industrial production had collapsed, and average wages had fallen by 80% since 1990. Donbas fell into crisis, with many accusing the new central government in Kyiv of mismanagement and neglect. Donbas coal miners went on strike in 1993, causing a conflict that was described by historian Lewis Siegelbaum as "a struggle between the Donbas region and the rest of the country". One strike leader said that Donbas people had voted for independence because they wanted "power to be given to the localities, enterprises, cities", not because they wanted heavily centralised power moved from "Moscow to Kyiv".[38]

This strike was followed by a 1994 consultative referendum on various constitutional questions in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, held concurrently with the first parliamentary elections in independent Ukraine.[39] These questions included whether Russian should be declared an official language of Ukraine, whether Russian should be the language of administration in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, whether Ukraine should federalise, and whether Ukraine should have closer ties with the Commonwealth of Independent States.[40]

Close to 90% of voters voted in favour of these propositions.[41] None of them were adopted: Ukraine remained a unitary state, Ukrainian was retained as the sole official language, and the Donbas gained no autonomy.[37] Nevertheless, the Donbas strikers gained many economic concessions from Kyiv, allowing for an alleviation of the economic crisis in the region.[38]

Small strikes continued throughout the 1990s, though demands for autonomy faded. Some subsidies to Donbas heavy industries were eliminated, and many mines were closed by the Ukrainian government because of liberalising reforms pushed for by the World Bank.[38] Leonid Kuchma, who had won the 1994 presidential election with support from the Donbas and other areas in eastern Ukraine, was re-elected as President of Ukraine in 1999.[38] President Kuchma gave economic aid to the Donbas, using development money to gain political support in the region.[38]

Power in the Donbas became concentrated in a regional political elite, known as oligarchs, during the early 2000s. Privatisation of state industries led to rampant corruption. Regional historian Hiroaki Kuromiya described this elite as the "Donbas clan", a group of people that controlled economic and political power in the region.[38] Prominent members of the "clan" included Viktor Yanukovych and Rinat Akhmetov. The formation of the oligarchy, combined with corruption, led to perceptions of the Donbas as "the least democratic and the most sinister region in Ukraine".[38]


During the 2010 Ukrainian presidential election, most people in Donbas voted for Viktor Yanukovych
A brief attempt at gaining autonomy by pro-Viktor Yanukovych politicians and officials was made in 2004 during the Orange Revolution. The so-called South-East Ukrainian Autonomous Republic was intended to consist out of nine South-Eastern regions of Ukraine. The project was initiated on 26 November 2004 by the Luhansk Oblast Council, and was discontinued the next month by the Donetsk Oblast Council. On November 28, 2004, in Sievierodonetsk, the so-called First All-Ukraine Congress Of People's Deputies And Local-Council's Deputies took place, organised by the supporters of Viktor Yanukovych.[42][43]

3,576 delegates from 16 oblasts of Ukraine, Crimea and Sevastopol took part in the congress, claiming to represent over 35 million citizens. Moscow Mayor Yurii Luzhkov and an advisor from the Russian Embassy were present in the presidium. There were calls for the appointment of Viktor Yanukovych as President of Ukraine or Prime Minister, for declaring of martial law in Ukraine, dissolution of the Verkhovna Rada, creation of self-defence forces, and for the creation of a federative South-Eastern state with its capital in Kharkiv.[42][43]

Donetsk Mayor Oleksandr Lukyanchenko, however, stated that no one wanted autonomy, but rather sought to stop the Orange Revolution demonstrations going on at the time in Kyiv and negotiate a compromise. After the Orange Revolution's victory, some of the organisers of the congress were charged with "encroachment upon the territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine", but no convictions were made.[44][45]

In other parts of Ukraine during the 2000s, the Donbas was often perceived as having a "thug culture", as being a "Soviet cesspool", and as "backward". Writing in the Narodne slovo newspaper in 2005, commentator Viktor Tkachenko said that the Donbas was home to "fifth columns", and that speaking Ukrainian in the region was "not safe for one's health and life".[46] It was also portrayed as being home to pro-Russian separatism. The Donbas is home to a significantly higher number of cities and villages that were named after Communist figures compared to the rest of Ukraine.[47] Despite this portrayal, surveys taken across that decade and during the 1990s showed strong support for remaining within Ukraine and insignificant support for separatism.[48]

Putin says he wants to “de-Nazify” Ukraine even though their president is Jewish

Explain this one to me…. Putin claims he wants to “DeNazify” Ukraine, even though the president of Ukraine is Jewish. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-attacking-ukraine-putin-calls-for-denazification-of-country-with-jewish-leader/ And still no noise from the right on here. Today Putin said...

www.usmessageboard.com

But regardless, this war and murder of civilians is led by Putin. And I don't believe for an instant he wants a political solution that would end in a pro-Western govt in Kiev. So, there's not point in even discussing whether some combination of autonomy for Donbas (and Crimea) coupled with a demilitarization of Ukraine, and allowing Crimea to pursue whatever economic path it chose.

 

[Lakhota]

Explain this one to me….

Putin claims he wants to “DeNazify” Ukraine, even though the president of Ukraine is Jewish.

Attacking Ukraine, Putin calls for ‘denazification’ of country with a Jewish leader

Russian president says military operation meant to 'protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide'

www.timesofisrael.com

Putin meant he wanted to de-democrafy Ukraine.

 

[Rigby5]

Comrade, why do you keep lying?

Soviet period[edit]​

Soviet Russian propaganda poster from 1921 that says "Donbas is the heart of Russia"
In April 1918 troops loyal to the Ukrainian People's Republic took control of large parts of the region.[26] For a while, its government bodies operated in the Donbas alongside their Russian Provisional Government equivalents.[27] The Ukrainian State, the successor of the Ukrainian People's Republic, was able in May 1918 to bring the region under its control for a short time with the help of its German and Austro-Hungarian allies.[27]

During the 1917–22 Russian Civil War, Nestor Makhno, who commanded the Revolutionary Insurgent Army of Ukraine, was the most popular leader in the Donbas.[27]

Along with other territories inhabited by Ukrainians, the Donbas was incorporated into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in the aftermath of the Russian Civil War. Cossacks in the region were subjected to decossackisation during 1919–1921.[28] Ukrainians in the Donbas were greatly affected by the 1932–33 Holodomor famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, they bore the brunt of the famine.[29][30]

Donbas was greatly affected by the Second World War. In the lead-up to the war, the Donbas region was racked by poverty and food shortages. War preparations resulted in an extension of the working day for factory labourers, whilst those who deviated from the heightened standards were arrested.[31] Nazi Germany's leader Adolf Hitler viewed the resources of the Donbas as critical to Operation Barbarossa. As such, the Donbas suffered under Nazi occupation during 1941 and 1942.[32]

Thousands of industrial labourers were deported to Germany for use in factories. In what was then called Stalino Oblast, now Donetsk Oblast, 279,000 civilians were killed over the course of the occupation. In Voroshilovgrad Oblast, now Luhansk Oblast, 45,649 were killed.[33] The 1943 Donbas strategic offensive by the Red Army resulted in the return of Donbas to Soviet control. The war had taken its toll, leaving the region both destroyed and depopulated.

During the reconstruction of the Donbas after the end of the Second World War, large numbers of Russian workers arrived to repopulate the region, further altering the population balance. In 1926, 639,000 ethnic Russians resided in the Donbas.[34] By 1959, the ethnic Russian population was 2.55 million. Russification was further advanced by the 1958–59 Soviet educational reforms, which led to the near elimination of all Ukrainian-language schooling in the Donbas.[35][36] By the time of the Soviet Census of 1989, 45% of the population of the Donbas reported their ethnicity as Russian.[37] In 1990, the Interfront of the Donbass was founded as a movement against Ukrainian independence.

The Ukraine has always been essential to Russia because that is the agricultural center.
The rest of Russia is too cold. and has too short of a growing season.

The Crimea has been Russian since 988 AD really, when the Byzantines were defeated.
{...
In the 9th century CE, Byzantium established the Theme of Cherson to defend against incursions by the Rus' Khaganate. The Crimean peninsula from this time was contested between Byzantium, Rus' and Khazaria. The area remained the site of overlapping interests and contact between the early medieval Slavic, Turkic and Greek spheres. It became a center of slave trade. Slavs were sold to Byzantium and other places in Anatolia and the Middle-East during this period.[citation needed] The peninsula was wrested from the Byzantines by the Kievan Rus' in the 10th century; the last Byzantine outpost, Chersonesus was taken in 988 CE. A year later, Grand Prince Vladimir of Kiev accepted the hand of Emperor Basil II's sister Anna in marriage, and was baptized by the local Byzantine priest at Chersonesus, thus marking the entry of Rus' (later Russia) into the Christian world.[37]
...}

 

[Rigby5]

from 1917?

No, from 988 AD.

 

[Rigby5]

It's a bullshit. I am telling you what is real. I have been there a thousand times on a visit and for work, in Kiev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Poltava and Odessa, in villages and cities. There is no Ukrainian lang except for the West.

That is the point, that much of the Ukraine is culturally Russian.
And all people should have the right of self determination.

 

[bendog]

The Ukraine has always been essential to Russia because that is the agricultural center.
The rest of Russia is too cold. and has too short of a growing season.

The Crimea has been Russian since 988 AD really, when the Byzantines were defeated.
{...
In the 9th century CE, Byzantium established the Theme of Cherson to defend against incursions by the Rus' Khaganate. The Crimean peninsula from this time was contested between Byzantium, Rus' and Khazaria. The area remained the site of overlapping interests and contact between the early medieval Slavic, Turkic and Greek spheres. It became a center of slave trade. Slavs were sold to Byzantium and other places in Anatolia and the Middle-East during this period.[citation needed] The peninsula was wrested from the Byzantines by the Kievan Rus' in the 10th century; the last Byzantine outpost, Chersonesus was taken in 988 CE. A year later, Grand Prince Vladimir of Kiev accepted the hand of Emperor Basil II's sister Anna in marriage, and was baptized by the local Byzantine priest at Chersonesus, thus marking the entry of Rus' (later Russia) into the Christian world.[37]
...}

Well at least you're being honest about Putin wanting to conquer a neighboring country by killing thousands of people and occupy by installing a stooge govt so as to reap the benefits of its natural resources.

 

[Rigby5]

Putin meant he wanted to de-democrafy Ukraine.

The Ukrainian government in Kiev is extremely undemocratic.
About the most corrupt in the world.

 

[bendog]

That is the point, that much of the Ukraine is culturally Russian.
And all people should have the right of self determination.

No. There's no "right" to just vote out. And Donbass is not populated primarily ethnic russians. Despite the Soviets murdering 4 million Ukranaians by starving them to death, and deporting others and forced immigration by Russians.

 

[bendog]

The Ukrainian government in Kiev is extremely undemocratic.
About the most corrupt in the world.

nnnnnno, nobody beats Vlad. LOL

And unlike Russia, they have free elections. And a free press. Corruption is still a problem for them, though. I'd agree on that.

 

[Rigby5]

Well at least you're being honest about Putin wanting to conquer a neighboring country by killing thousands of people and occupy by installing a stooge govt so as to reap the benefits of its natural resources.

But it is the fault of the Ukraine for Russia and the Ukraine not getting along.
The Ukraine is extorting and stealing too much from Russia.

 

[jknowgood]

You believe Putin, do you?

He is taking a chapter out of your playbook. Putin would make a great liberal.

 

[Rigby5]

No. There's no "right" to just vote out. And Donbass is not populated primarily ethnic russians. Despite the Soviets murdering 4 million Ukranaians by starving them to death, and deporting others and forced immigration by Russians.

The starvation after the revolution was mostly due to rebellion by "White Russians".
The Crimea and Donetsk were always populated by ethnic Russians since 988 AD.