Putin says he wants to “de-Nazify” Ukraine even though their president is Jewish

[rupol2000]

These provinces were always ethnic Russian and used to be part of Russia.

Firstly, the Russian Empire was multi-ethnic, and joining the Russian Empire does not mean ethnic kinship and does not mean that the region was part of Great Russia / Muscovy.

Secondly, historically, the southeast of Russia did not differ at all from Ukraine, and from an ethnic and linguistic point of view, on the contrary, the Moscow principalities were separate from the rest of the state, including most of Ukraine

Half of the European part of Russia was populated by Poles Vyatichi, and was part of the Chernigov Principality.

From this point of view, the southeast of the European part of Russia does not differ ethnically from Ukraine at all.

 

[Rigby5]

Germany freezes Nord Stream 2 gas project as Ukraine crisis deepens

Germany on Tuesday halted the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea gas pipeline project, designed to double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany, after Russia formally recognised two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.

www.reuters.com

The pipeline would have given Germany the ability to middle Russian gas and oil, so this will greatly harm Germany.
Not good for Europe or Russia.
Good only for US and Mideast oil suppliers.

 

[rupol2000]

The Russians were not moved to the Ukraine by the Soviet State.

It was probably earlier, when Russia was Lithuania and took over part of Ukraine.
Historically, the Hetmanate was the land of Moscow, Turks and Russians lived there, then Serbs were resettled there. This region speaks Russian, like the Donbass. But the Donbass was not the land of Moscow, it was mainly the land of the Don Cossacks, in the past Khazaria.

 

[Rigby5]

Incurable degenerate is exactly what he is and I have him on ignore. Some people are not worth wating time on.

My grandfather, his brother and just about every male of age from a small city near Kiev fought Nazis in WWII alongside Russians, his stories that Ukrainians were somehow fighting FOR Hitler is insane bullshit.

It is well documented that large numbers of Ukrainians fought for Hitler in WWII.

{...
ww2dbaseWith the Soviet massacre of intelligentsia and the great Holodomor famine of the 1930s still fresh in mind, there were large elements of Ukrainians who welcomed the Germans as liberators, especially in western Ukraine. Some volunteered and joined the Schutzmannschaft, a German-controlled auxiliary police unit that helped guard concentration camps and fought against resistance elements in Ukraine and Byelorussia. Early in the Russo-German war, about 4,000 Ukrainians operated under German orders to aid the German war effort. On 28 Apr 1943, a Ukrainian SS unit was formed, which later became a part of the Waffen-SS as the SS Division "Galizien" and then the 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS; there were claims that these volunteers actively participated in atrocities of the Holocaust.
...}

Ukraine in World War II

Ukraine in World War II

ww2db.com

 

[Turtlesoup]

Anyone who thinks Trump would have stood up to Putin is a seriously deluded dipshit.

This is a guy you applauded for falling in love with North Korea's communist dictator, and has a long history of fawning over and defending Putin.

He just praised Putin for invading Ukraine, you stupid dumb fucks.

In the Business world, which Trump is, you say nice things and then thump those that get out of line. PUTIN and the rest of the world behaved when Trump was in office........

Now that he is not in office-----the world, the whole fucking world, is collapsing. People are dying because of dipshit BIDEN doing the Chinese bidding. NO one is as inept as Biden and his entire administration would have to be to pulling the shit they are allowing this nonsense to happen. We are all in danger---PUtin and China's aggressions will continue until they control the whole planet.

 

[Rigby5]

Firstly, the Russian Empire was multi-ethnic, and joining the Russian Empire does not mean ethnic kinship and does not mean that the region was part of Great Russia / Muscovy.

Secondly, historically, the southeast of Russia did not differ at all from Ukraine, and from an ethnic and linguistic point of view, on the contrary, the Moscow principalities were separate from the rest of the state, including most of Ukraine

Half of the European part of Russia was populated by Poles Vyatichi, and was part of the Chernigov Principality.

From this point of view, the southeast of the European part of Russia does not differ ethnically from Ukraine at all.

The Ukrainians and ethnic Russians of Donetsk and the Crimea do not speak the same language.
These provinces of the Ukraine used to be part of Russia until Khrushchev arbitrarily gave them to the Ukraine for some secret reason in 1956.
That likely was wrong, and they should never have been given to the Ukraine.
They must be returned eventually, the sooner the better.

 

[Rigby5]

It was probably earlier, when Russia was Lithuania and took over part of Ukraine.
Historically, the Hetmanate was the land of Moscow, Turks and Russians lived there, then Serbs were resettled there. This region speaks Russian, like the Donbass. But the Donbass was not the land of Moscow, it was mainly the land of the Don Cossacks, in the past Khazaria.

While all may be true, the fact is these ethnic Russians in Donetsk and the Crimea do not want to be part of the Ukraine.
By trying to join NATO, the Ukraine is coming off like a traitor.
By illegally siphoning off gas and oil from Russian pipelines, the Ukraine comes off like criminals.
The Ukrainian involvement with Hitler in WWII does not look good either.

 

[bendog]

That is wrong.
The Russians were not moved to the Ukraine by the Soviet State.
You have it totally backwards.
These provinces were always ethnic Russian and used to be part of Russia.
Khrushchev switched ownership of these provinces from Russia to the Ukraine in 1956.
Russian majorities existed in these provinces since before 1500 AD.
And the Ukraine has always been abusive and corrupt.
For example, stealing over $20 billion in gas and oil from Russia, over decades.

Russia–Ukraine gas disputes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Ukraine lost in the world court in 2010, but has since refused to pay up.

being owed money is not a justification for murdering thousands of innocent people ... or guilty ones for that matter. We owed Iran millions and they never used it to justify attacks on us. We owe the Afghans millions, and they are not attacking us. And yes the Soviets moved russians into Ukriane, and Ukranians to their deaths.

In 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR issued the decree on the transfer of the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. This action increased the ethnic Russian population of Ukraine by almost a million people. Many Russian politicians considered the transfer to be controversial.[19] Controversies and legality of the transfer remained a sore point in relations between Ukraine and Russia for a few years, and in particular in the internal politics in Crimea. However, in a 1997 treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine, Russia recognized Ukraine's borders and accepted Ukraine's sovereignty over Crimea.[6]

Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You have a strange agenda, and one that I find contrary to this nation's and humanity's interests.

 

[rupol2000]

In general, the Kiev region may have been originally Russian. There is a river "Ros" there.

This region differs from the rest of Ukraine in that it is forested and swampy, it has always gravitated towards Moscow, which is why there was an uprising and a split from Poland under Khmelnitsky. The rest of Ukraine is steppe. These are different ecological niches. The steppe was occupied by the Polovtsians, Khazars, Bulgars, Avars, Ugrians and other steppe peoples who were close to each other.

Kiev passed from hand to hand, it was a border post. The Byzantines called it Sambat, and at different times considered it Bulgarian, Khazar and Russian.
Moscow had a similar history. It was on the border of the steppie people Vyatichi and the Balt people Golyad. It was along this line that the border of 2 cultures passed.

 

[rupol2000]

the fact is these ethnic Russians

The concept of ethnic Russian is absurd. Russia is a de facto empire, which includes and included many peoples, and the concept of a Russian ethnic group, if it can exist, is only in the historical sense as the former territory of Lithuania, including the West of Moscow and Pererburg. De facto, this is an analogue of the concept of Litvin.
Most Russians do not come from this group, it is only the northwest


Apparently, the Ukrainians as a whole do not differ from the Russian Kuban, the Central Chernozem region and the Volga region.

And if we talk about linguistic identity, central Ukraine is also Russian-speaking, and so what? Ukrainian is spoken there only to the west of Poltava and Vinnytsia.

 

[rupol2000]

The Ukrainian involvement with Hitler in WWII does not look good either.

This has already been discussed above. Complete nonsense and leftist propaganda. Bandera was against Germany, in Ukraine most of the veterans served in the Red Army, and in Russia there were many collaborators. I see no reason to believe that Ukraine was involved in Nazism more than any other republic.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

AzogtheDefiler Do you think that Bandera joined Germany? Are you embarrassed by the fact that he was put in a German prison at the beginning of the war, and his organization was dispersed?

Read the book about Sobibor and stop your nonsense.

 

[Rigby5]

being owed money is not a justification for murdering thousands of innocent people ... or guilty ones for that matter. We owed Iran millions and they never used it to justify attacks on us. We owe the Afghans millions, and they are not attacking us. And yes the Soviets moved russians into Ukriane, and Ukranians to their deaths.

In 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR issued the decree on the transfer of the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. This action increased the ethnic Russian population of Ukraine by almost a million people. Many Russian politicians considered the transfer to be controversial.[19] Controversies and legality of the transfer remained a sore point in relations between Ukraine and Russia for a few years, and in particular in the internal politics in Crimea. However, in a 1997 treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine, Russia recognized Ukraine's borders and accepted Ukraine's sovereignty over Crimea.[6]

Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You have a strange agenda, and one that I find contrary to this nation's and humanity's interests.

You say Russia moved Russians into the Ukraine like they were some sort of illegal immigrants.
That is not the case.
Khrushchev gave the Ukraine sovereignty over Russians who had lived in the Donetsk and Crimea for over 400 years.

But none of that mattered until the Ukraine started acting like a traitor.
For example, stealing gas and oil from Russian pipelines, and trying to join NATO.
Both of those do justify the invasion of the Ukraine, since the Ukraine had almost a decade to fix their mistakes, and continued with their crimes instead.

As for justification for murdering civilians, let us not forget we in the US murdered about half a million innocent Iraqis over deliberate WMD lies.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Listen degenerate. I don't understand what you're talking about and who you are. You said that supposedly Russians do not like Ukrainians, allegedly because the Ukrainians were on the side of Hitler and the Russians were on the side of Stalin. Why did you yell it, brute? You have not heard of Vlasov idiot? There are no veterans of the Red Army in Ukraine????

And then what do you suggest I read?

Initially that was how it was then they turned when they saw what sort of demon Hitler was. The fact that you don't know this is mind boggling. You are an idiot who called me a leftist.

A Warm Welcome Turns Cold in Nazi-Occupied Ukraine

After the initial euphoria of their “liberation” from Soviet rule wore off, Ukrainians were destined to experience the Nazis as some of the cruelest conquerors in history.

www.historynet.com

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I get it all the time from righties like you. Lefties regularly call me a conservative or a Nazi. I‘m doing it right. You aren’t.

I guess so. Maybe you can throw me a few pointers?

 

[Rigby5]

The concept of ethnic Russian is absurd. Russia is a de facto empire, which includes and included many peoples, and the concept of a Russian ethnic group, if it can exist, is only in the historical sense as the former territory of Lithuania, including the West of Moscow and Pererburg. De facto, this is an analogue of the concept of Litvin.
Most Russians do not come from this group, it is only the northwest


Apparently, the Ukrainians as a whole do not differ from the Russian Kuban, the Central Chernozem region and the Volga region.

And if we talk about linguistic identity, central Ukraine is also Russian-speaking, and so what? Ukrainian is spoken there only to the west of Poltava and Vinnytsia.

The polls say the ethnic Russians to the east feel mistreated by the Ukrainian gov in Kiev.
They say they liked it better when part of Russia.
They are the only ones who get any say.
The principle of self determination has to be supreme.
Anyone preventing that is a criminal.

And anyone has to admit that the Ukraine trying to join NATO is incredibly absurd, since NATO should not even exist any more, since the USSR does not.

 

[rupol2000]

Initially that was how it was

Do you want to say that at first the whole of Ukraine pecked at Hitler? Where does this information come from?

 

[rupol2000]

They say they liked it better when part of Russia.

And when they were part of Russia?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Do you want to say that at first the whole of Ukraine pecked at Hitler? Where does this information come from?

Western Ukraine

 

[rupol2000]

AzogtheDefiler I have read the first two paragraphs. There is a story about some Brice who thought that there were dances in Germany. I'm too lazy to read this nonsense, quote specifically on the topic: when did all of Ukraine join Germany?