Q for Progressives

[CrusaderFrank]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

 

[DarkFury]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

 

[hazlnut]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

GO back to Stormfront you walking piece of shit bigot.

 

[Pogo]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

Here ya go Franko:

"for Progressives" huh? This thread been sitting here a hundred years? Didn't notice until now...

 

[midcan5]

Conservatives are for the status quo by definition, so those who wanted to maintain segregation, Jim Crow, lack of equal rights etc etc would be conservatives. Not sure why this is so hard for some to accept. Actually I take that back as history for some must be revised to fit a narrative that excludes real history.

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress Conceptual Guerilla s Strategy And Tactics

"Conservatism is the theoretical voice of this animus against the agency of the subordinate classes. It provides the most consistent and profound argument as to why the lower orders should not be allowed to exercise their independent will, why they should not be allowed to govern themselves or the polity. Submission is their first duty, agency, the prerogative of the elite." Corey Robin 'The Reactionary Mind'


"The collapse of the Bush presidency, in other words, is not just due to Bush's incompetence (although his administration has been incompetent beyond belief). Nor is it a response to the president's principled lack of intellectual curiosity and pitbull refusal to admit mistakes (although those character flaws are certainly real enough). And the orgy of bribery and special-interest dispensation in Congress is not the result of Tom DeLay's ruthlessness, as impressive a bully as he was. This conservative presidency and Congress imploded, not despite their conservatism, but because of it." "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe

 

[Pogo]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

 

[JGalt]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

GO back to Stormfront you walking piece of shit bigot.

Is this the party of tolerance and diversity speaking? What hypocrites you lefties are.

 

[JGalt]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

The left will constantly try to redefine all the icky things of the past as being done by "conservatives". Yet they never own up to the fact that every political assassination done in this country was committed by leftists.

 

[Misty]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

Here ya go Franko:

"for Progressives" huh? This thread been sitting here a hundred years? Didn't notice until now...

Did you know that Goldwater founded the NAACP in Arizona? He was a member until his death.

 

[Pogo]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

Here ya go Franko:

"for Progressives" huh? This thread been sitting here a hundred years? Didn't notice until now...

Here Ya Go Part II:

Fun fact: Did you know George Wallace wanted to be Goldwater's running mate? And didja know after Goldwater declined he had to talk Wallace out of running on his own (as he did four years later) because Wallace would have siphoned off the red states above?

The South has always been conservative. Which is a different thing from being "Democrat" or "Republican" (or just as often, running its own candidates/parties because they couldn't find one conservative enough). But you knew that.

 

[DarkFury]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

 

[Political Junky]

Map showing the vote in 1964. The Red are the Goldwater states.
His state of Arizona and five Deep South states.

 

[Pogo]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

Here ya go Franko:

"for Progressives" huh? This thread been sitting here a hundred years? Didn't notice until now...

Did you know that Goldwater founded the NAACP in Arizona? He was a member until his death.

There is nothing in Goldwater's body of rhetoric to indicate he was a racist. But that's not the point.
Goldwater didn't solicit the Klan here and surely didn't want their support.

Goldwater and racists had in common that they both opposed the Civil Rights Act, but for completely different reasons. To his credit, once the CRA passed Goldwater declared it was the law of the land and should be given a chance to work. But his opposition was on constitutional grounds, not racism.

The point is not that Goldwater (or conservatives) are attracted to racism -- there's no evidence of that -- but the opposite: that racists are attracted to conservatism.

 

[JGalt]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Liberals believe an all-seeing, all-knowing big government should free them from responsibilities and provide them with everything they need, from cradle to grave. They believe markets should be heavily regulated by this government, they believe personal liberties should be forfeited for the good of the community, and that traditional American values should be replaces with more global values because "America is evil", They truly believe that the only reason this country has what it does, is because it was "stolen" from others. They also believe that this countries greatness should be given back to those poor, indigenous peoples and that because the rest of the word has to sit in cold, dark houses with nothing to eat, , we should do the same.

Fuck them.

 

[Pogo]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Liberals believe an all-seeing, all-knowing big government should free them from responsibilities and provide them with everything they need, from cradle to grave. They believe markets should be heavily regulated by this government, they believe personal liberties should be forfeited for the good of the community, and that traditional American values should be replaces with more global values because "America is evil", They truly believe that the only reason this country has what it does, is because it was "stolen" from others. They also believe that this countries greatness should be given back to those poor, indigenous peoples and that because the rest of the word has to sit in cold, dark houses with nothing to eat, , we should do the same.

Fuck them.

Horse. Shit.

Liberalism views government like a referee, whose job is to maintain a level and equal playing field for individuals, ideas, businesses and institutions. Government is not to take sides or support any given view or organization. Conservatives, socialists, and others, i.e. the "Left" and the "Right", seek to use government to promote certain agendas, viewpoints, institutions, and interests.

... Liberal, in the classical sense of the word, simply means a "hands off", or laissez-faire, policy. The United States is classically seen as an example of "liberal democracy," as George Washington stated in 1790:

"The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights." (linque)
​

 

[Political Junky]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Liberals believe an all-seeing, all-knowing big government should free them from responsibilities and provide them with everything they need, from cradle to grave. They believe markets should be heavily regulated by this government, they believe personal liberties should be forfeited for the good of the community, and that traditional American values should be replaces with more global values because "America is evil", They truly believe that the only reason this country has what it does, is because it was "stolen" from others. They also believe that this countries greatness should be given back to those poor, indigenous peoples and that because the rest of the word has to sit in cold, dark houses with nothing to eat, , we should do the same.

Fuck them.

Most of Europe has better infrastructure than the US. They have health care for all and over all better quality of life.

 

[JGalt]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Liberals believe an all-seeing, all-knowing big government should free them from responsibilities and provide them with everything they need, from cradle to grave. They believe markets should be heavily regulated by this government, they believe personal liberties should be forfeited for the good of the community, and that traditional American values should be replaces with more global values because "America is evil", They truly believe that the only reason this country has what it does, is because it was "stolen" from others. They also believe that this countries greatness should be given back to those poor, indigenous peoples and that because the rest of the word has to sit in cold, dark houses with nothing to eat, , we should do the same.

Fuck them.

Horse. Shit.

Liberalism views government like a referee, whose job is to maintain a level and equal playing field for individuals, ideas, businesses and institutions. Government is not to take sides or support any given view or organization. Conservatives, socialists, and others, i.e. the "Left" and the "Right", seek to use government to promote certain agendas, viewpoints, institutions, and interests.

... Liberal, in the classical sense of the word, simply means a "hands off", or laissez-faire, policy. The United States is classically seen as an example of "liberal democracy," as George Washington stated in 1790:

"The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights." (linque)
​

I hate to break it to you, but the government you elected hasn't leveled the playing field for anyone. If anyone has benefited from Obama's banana republic, it's been the upper-income earners and Wall Street.

Meanwhile black people have really suffered. There's more racial division and more of them on food stamps, than any time before. You better hope that Hillary doesn't to for woman, what Obama's done for blacks.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I've heard your fictional narrative that southern Democrat Racists were actually "Conservatives"

My question is were these Goldwater Conservatives?

SOCIAL conservatives

 

[deltex1]

I voted for Goldwater. A no brainer....only a fool would have trusted LBJ.

 

[Political Junky]

PRESENT! I AM a Goldwater Conservative and it has nothing to do with race. This idea that Conservative has anything to do with politics is a bunch of crap.
Conservative is HOW you use or view something.

A conservative views money as something to improve life standards and as a reward for work.
A liberal views money as "shared" wealth and as a reward for their idea of "good thoughts.

Wrong on both counts, Pinky. "Liberal/conservative" ain't got squat to do with money or "thoughts" or "rewards". Has to do with political philosophy and how you view the role of government.

"Conservative" is dependent on the time context. When Liberals founded this country, "conservative" meant keeping the status quo of the authority of the Church and Nobility over the People, where Liberalism believed just the opposite. "Liberal" means government stays out of the way and remains passive more than active.

Racism doesn't really enter into either one -- you can certainly be Conservative and not be racist at all. But you cannot be Liberal and be racist, since the concept of racism requires a class hierarchy -- which Liberals by definition don't believe in.

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Liberals believe an all-seeing, all-knowing big government should free them from responsibilities and provide them with everything they need, from cradle to grave. They believe markets should be heavily regulated by this government, they believe personal liberties should be forfeited for the good of the community, and that traditional American values should be replaces with more global values because "America is evil", They truly believe that the only reason this country has what it does, is because it was "stolen" from others. They also believe that this countries greatness should be given back to those poor, indigenous peoples and that because the rest of the word has to sit in cold, dark houses with nothing to eat, , we should do the same.

Fuck them.

Horse. Shit.

Liberalism views government like a referee, whose job is to maintain a level and equal playing field for individuals, ideas, businesses and institutions. Government is not to take sides or support any given view or organization. Conservatives, socialists, and others, i.e. the "Left" and the "Right", seek to use government to promote certain agendas, viewpoints, institutions, and interests.

... Liberal, in the classical sense of the word, simply means a "hands off", or laissez-faire, policy. The United States is classically seen as an example of "liberal democracy," as George Washington stated in 1790:

"The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights." (linque)
​

I hate to break it to you, but the government you elected hasn't leveled the playing field for anyone. If anyone has benefited from Obama's banana republic, it's been the upper-income earners and Wall Street.

Meanwhile black people have really suffered. There's more racial division and more of them on food stamps, than any time before. You better hope that Hillary doesn't to for woman, what Obama's done for blacks.

The US has been headed toward being a banana republic since Reagan.
A rich republican said to me, when Reagan won, "the good life is back".