Question for proponents of the Public Option Plan/Single Payer Plan.

[MajikMyst]

While we can all sit here and bounce numbers around and try to understand who will lose their job or how much this all costs.. Here is a number to consider..

$102,000 dollars an HOUR is how much the CEO of United Healthcare gets for killing americans.. Some 40,000 americans each year..

We are 37th on the list for quality healthcare for industrialized nations.. All the nations with government health care above us.. France being number 1 for healthcare for it's citezens..

We are dead least in preventable deaths.. Dead last!!

24th in life expentancy.. Want to live longer?? Don't live in the U.S.

Now figure this one out?? We are 2nd in spending for healthcare?? So France which is in 10th place for spending is number 1 in providing quality healthcare for it's people?? What the hell are we doing wrong??

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

We are supposed to be the best and the brightest.. We are the United states and we are getting our asses handed to us on a silver platter over healthcare.. Over 40,000 people die each year due to lack of insurance or denial of coverage..

If france can do it with less cost, then there is no reason we can as well.. WE can even use France as a working model..

 

[judyd]

If the choice is a face less name less politician or a name less face less INSURANCE EXEC that gets paid MILLIONS for denying EVERY procedure he can I will take a gov't worker. ANY FUCKING TIME!

I agree. I would rather pay more in payroll taxes and nothing to insurance companies. At least it would take a vote in congress to increase the taxes if needed. The insurance companies just raise their rates each year, and no one gets to vote on it. So many other countries have government health care and they are doing much better than we are. I don't understand the citizens of the US who are against this. It's more understandable that some politicians are, since they receive such large donations from the insurance companies.

 

[Bfgrn]

If the choice is a face less name less politician or a name less face less INSURANCE EXEC that gets paid MILLIONS for denying EVERY procedure he can I will take a gov't worker. ANY FUCKING TIME!

I agree. I would rather pay more in payroll taxes and nothing to insurance companies. At least it would take a vote in congress to increase the taxes if needed. The insurance companies just raise their rates each year, and no one gets to vote on it. So many other countries have government health care and they are doing much better than we are. I don't understand the citizens of the US who are against this. It's more understandable that some politicians are, since they receive such large donations from the insurance companies.

You mean like the teabaggers that march on Washington at an event funded by corporate lobbyists to protest FOR taxation WITHOUT representation? It's because their brains are smaller than a pea...

 

[Immanuel]

Between PREMIUMS,CO-PAYS and DENIED COVERAGE I am paying about 40% of my earnings RIGHT NOW and more often than not they DENY COVERAGE.

So how about YOU tell me how great our ins cos are?

1) Never said that the insurance companies are great. In fact, I have said quite the opposite in these discussions.

2) If, and I do mean if, your Insurance company is denying so much coverage, then you need a new insurance company or you need to read your policy and stop attempting to get so many elective procedures done at the expense of your insurance company

2a) I say if, because your insurance company, unless you went with "Fly by Night Insurance Co." is going to cover all standard medical procedures just like every other plan. I also think you are using hyperbole to make your point.

3) If you think bureaucrats are going to be any more accommodating to your health needs, head on down to the welfare office and ask for help.

Immie

 

[Maple]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

How many jobs will that costs? I am not just talking about the CEOs and upper management jobs but how many jobs of people like you and me who work hard every day just to put dinner on the table will be lost. From the Janitor to middle management and don't forget the little guys, the independent agents who work for you to get you coverage. Those CEO's employ you; your brothers, sisters, parents, children, friends.

Where are those people going to go when the private health insurer disappears?

How many hundreds of thousands of jobs (Democrat jobs) are going to be lost? What industry do you work in?

Is your job safe?

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

Well, a government run plan would have to hire people, too, so it's not clear to me how many jobs net would be lost or gained. What we do know is that if private insurance were replaced by government run insurance similar to Canada's system, massive amounts of capital that insurance companies now invest in our private sector economy would be diverted to buy Treasuries, as Medicare and SS do with their reserve funds, and to pay for the federal government's deficits. I've got to think that withdrawing this much capital from private investment would have a negative effect on economic growth and job creation.

Good post, " negative effect," is a massive understatement, The federal government has bankrupted Social Security, medicare, medicaid, freddie and fannie, the postal service, it's insanity to let them take over 6% of our economy. Yet, alot of these libs like to stand in line with their hands out, feeling very comfortable with the federal government in total control of their health care decisions. I guess they are used to standing in line being like dependent children as long as it does not involve their dime that's paying for it.

 

[Maple]

If the choice is a face less name less politician or a name less face less INSURANCE EXEC that gets paid MILLIONS for denying EVERY procedure he can I will take a gov't worker. ANY FUCKING TIME!

I agree. I would rather pay more in payroll taxes and nothing to insurance companies. At least it would take a vote in congress to increase the taxes if needed. The insurance companies just raise their rates each year, and no one gets to vote on it. So many other countries have government health care and they are doing much better than we are. I don't understand the citizens of the US who are against this. It's more understandable that some politicians are, since they receive such large donations from the insurance companies.

You mean like the teabaggers that march on Washington at an event funded by corporate lobbyists to protest FOR taxation WITHOUT representation? It's because their brains are smaller than a pea...

I have been at those tea-parties and I can tell you without a DOUBT, that no-one is funding them. If you take a look, those are all homemade signs. They are not the busloads of ACORN workers and Union workers who have been bused in with pre-made look alike signs, those are your paid dummies.

 

[Care4all]

pajesus mary and joseph!

the misinformation being told about the public option is astounding...

can any of you please tell me WHY YOU REFUSE TO READ THE BILLS REGARDING the public option and what the Bills actually say on it?

 

[Intense]

pajesus mary and joseph!

the misinformation being told about the public option is astounding...

can any of you please tell me WHY YOU REFUSE TO READ THE BILLS REGARDING the public option and what the Bills actually say on it?

Post a link.

Tell me what is to stop the Bill from being turned on it's head, with added amendments, before signing? The Process needs repair.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I say leave the health care part of the equation alone...our care is the best in the world and we shouldn't be tinkering with it. Then let the people tell the congress what to do along the lines of regulating the insurance companies so that we, the consumer, are protected.

Some of these Ideas:

• Open up competition by letting people buy private insurance across state lines.
• Regulations making it illegal to deny a current patients claims if they get very sick.
• Tort reform to help eliminate overtesting (waste) out of fear of lawsuits and to lower malpractice insurance costs, and therefore medical costss.
• I'd even be for some sort of backup entitlement plan for catastrophic medical events, say a health savings account that can only be spent on medical things where every dollar you put into it the government matches a dollar (or gives you a 100% tax break which would be the same thing basically).

Those are just 4 reasonable and effective ideas that wont take a complete overhaul of our care system, 1000 page bills, or billions to trillions of dollars to impliment.


I have more faith in people like you and my fellow americans than I do in the congress.


After seeing those videos I know the true intent of what the government is proposing right now and there is no way I will support a public option aka single payer government run health care.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

pajesus mary and joseph!

the misinformation being told about the public option is astounding...

can any of you please tell me WHY YOU REFUSE TO READ THE BILLS REGARDING the public option and what the Bills actually say on it?

What does the "public" in "public option" really mean? - Consumer Watchdog

IT WILL BE SUBSIDIZED

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2aV6uJGkP0&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Christropher Hayes, Netroots Nation Day 1, Simple Explanation of the Proposed Public Option[/ame]


Care if you couldn’t afford the full premium and you made less than 400% of the federal poverty line (about $43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of 4), you’d get a subsidy so your premium would be pegged to a fixed percentage of your income.

Its in the bill as such http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

 

[veritas]

* Open up competition by letting people buy private insurance across state lines.
* Regulations making it illegal to deny a current patients claims if they get very sick.
* Tort reform to help eliminate overtesting (waste) out of fear of lawsuits and to lower malpractice insurance costs, and therefore medical costss.
* I'd even be for some sort of backup entitlement plan for catastrophic medical events, say a health savings account that can only be spent on medical things where every dollar you put into it the government matches a dollar (or gives you a 100% tax break which would be the same thing basically).

The across state lines thing is a sham. Unless and until all the health insurance laws are made uniform across the entire country, it will only result in a least regulated base ops situation as in the credit card industry.

Tort reform is a sham as well. The insurance companies pay lawyers to keep them on staff to deny claims and fight claims more than all the malpractice BS put together.

What good does a health savings account do if you can't roll it over and you can't make any interest?

Try again.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

* Open up competition by letting people buy private insurance across state lines.
* Regulations making it illegal to deny a current patients claims if they get very sick.
* Tort reform to help eliminate overtesting (waste) out of fear of lawsuits and to lower malpractice insurance costs, and therefore medical costss.
* I'd even be for some sort of backup entitlement plan for catastrophic medical events, say a health savings account that can only be spent on medical things where every dollar you put into it the government matches a dollar (or gives you a 100% tax break which would be the same thing basically).

The across state lines thing is a sham. Unless and until all the health insurance laws are made uniform across the entire country, it will only result in a least regulated base ops situation as in the credit card industry.

Tort reform is a sham as well. The insurance companies pay lawyers to keep them on staff to deny claims and fight claims more than all the malpractice BS put together.

What good does a health savings account do if you can't roll it over and you can't make any interest?

Try again.

Using your debate tactic I say HR3200 and the Baucus bills are shams.


Try again and unless you are interested in being honest

 

[Care4all]

pajesus mary and joseph!

the misinformation being told about the public option is astounding...

can any of you please tell me WHY YOU REFUSE TO READ THE BILLS REGARDING the public option and what the Bills actually say on it?

What does the "public" in "public option" really mean? - Consumer Watchdog

IT WILL BE SUBSIDIZED

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2aV6uJGkP0&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Christropher Hayes, Netroots Nation Day 1, Simple Explanation of the Proposed Public Option[/ame]


Care if you couldn’t afford the full premium and you made less than 400% of the federal poverty line (about $43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of 4), you’d get a subsidy so your premium would be pegged to a fixed percentage of your income.

Its in the bill as such http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

pp
i just read the article, please POINT OUT where you believe it says that it will be subsidized....?

 

[Intense]

* Open up competition by letting people buy private insurance across state lines.
* Regulations making it illegal to deny a current patients claims if they get very sick.
* Tort reform to help eliminate overtesting (waste) out of fear of lawsuits and to lower malpractice insurance costs, and therefore medical costss.
* I'd even be for some sort of backup entitlement plan for catastrophic medical events, say a health savings account that can only be spent on medical things where every dollar you put into it the government matches a dollar (or gives you a 100% tax break which would be the same thing basically).

The across state lines thing is a sham. Unless and until all the health insurance laws are made uniform across the entire country, it will only result in a least regulated base ops situation as in the credit card industry.

Tort reform is a sham as well. The insurance companies pay lawyers to keep them on staff to deny claims and fight claims more than all the malpractice BS put together.

What good does a health savings account do if you can't roll it over and you can't make any interest?

Try again.

Tort reform is needed. I think we should tax Lawyers more, and cap their fee's.

Insurance Reform to address the unfair burdens on doctors, is what needs to be addressed. Stop trying to divert attention.

 

[veritas]

I'm being as honest as possible. I've waded through one state's code, it voluminous. All of tort reform and portability and "across state lines" is involved with the codes, all 51 of them. Until you understand that you can't go forward.

The Baucus bill is unmitigated crap. HR3200 is better, much better. HR 676 is even better.

 

[Care4all]

because anyone, as I HAVE POINTED OUT UMPTEEN TIMES, that qualifies for ''affordability credits'' can CHOOSE any insurance plan they want on the insurance exchange, they are not obligated to buy ONLY the public option insurance plan...they can use credits towards UHC, BCBS, CIGNA whoever is on their state's exchange

 

[Care4all]

hr3200 is the best of the lot, so far imo as well...

 

[MajikMyst]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

How many jobs will that costs? I am not just talking about the CEOs and upper management jobs but how many jobs of people like you and me who work hard every day just to put dinner on the table will be lost. From the Janitor to middle management and don't forget the little guys, the independent agents who work for you to get you coverage. Those CEO's employ you; your brothers, sisters, parents, children, friends.

Where are those people going to go when the private health insurer disappears?

How many hundreds of thousands of jobs (Democrat jobs) are going to be lost? What industry do you work in?

Is your job safe?

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

Well, a government run plan would have to hire people, too, so it's not clear to me how many jobs net would be lost or gained. What we do know is that if private insurance were replaced by government run insurance similar to Canada's system, massive amounts of capital that insurance companies now invest in our private sector economy would be diverted to buy Treasuries, as Medicare and SS do with their reserve funds, and to pay for the federal government's deficits. I've got to think that withdrawing this much capital from private investment would have a negative effect on economic growth and job creation.

Good post, " negative effect," is a massive understatement, The federal government has bankrupted Social Security, medicare, medicaid, freddie and fannie, the postal service, it's insanity to let them take over 6% of our economy. Yet, alot of these libs like to stand in line with their hands out, feeling very comfortable with the federal government in total control of their health care decisions. I guess they are used to standing in line being like dependent children as long as it does not involve their dime that's paying for it.

So Freddie and Fannie are government agencies now?? LOL Man you repukes are sure stupid!! Bush gave them billions in bail out money to keep them out of bankruptcy.. They bankrupted themselves.. If you want to blame the government then blame rebuttlicans for removing all the regulations..

As for the rest of your post? The only problem our government has is conservatives.. Ever since Social security and medicare were created, you morons have tried to defund them or steal from their coffers to pay for your escapades... How much Social security money went to Iraq??

Grow a brain will you and get a real arguement!

 

[MajikMyst]

I agree. I would rather pay more in payroll taxes and nothing to insurance companies. At least it would take a vote in congress to increase the taxes if needed. The insurance companies just raise their rates each year, and no one gets to vote on it. So many other countries have government health care and they are doing much better than we are. I don't understand the citizens of the US who are against this. It's more understandable that some politicians are, since they receive such large donations from the insurance companies.

You mean like the teabaggers that march on Washington at an event funded by corporate lobbyists to protest FOR taxation WITHOUT representation? It's because their brains are smaller than a pea...

I have been at those tea-parties and I can tell you without a DOUBT, that no-one is funding them. If you take a look, those are all homemade signs. They are not the busloads of ACORN workers and Union workers who have been bused in with pre-made look alike signs, those are your paid dummies.

So that big painted bus was free?? All those sticks used to make those signs was free?? All the cardboard paper to make those signs was free?? All those people have no job and all the time in the world to go somewhere and do nothing but piss on the people of this nation in favor of insurance companies that like to kill us? Tea parties and all the lies they spread are totally funded by the insurance companies..

Acorn has done nothing wrong and that has been proven if you have followed it at all.. It is just another example of how repukes have tanken down another organization that is dedicated to helping those in need.. Shame on you!!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So hear is my thought on CONTINUED healthcare when you lose your job due to illness. As it is if you lose your job due to illness you have three choices. Pay for COBRA which is more then my mortgage, buy it yourself which is MORE than COBRA, or lose your coverage when you MOST need it. Now you have lived a good clean life you always pay your premiums on time you pay your deductables and you pay out of pocket for some services that you NEED but they won't cover you are a good family man. Now you are diagnosed with colon cancer which if treated EARLY has a high rate of sucessful treatment. The problem is that you are TOO SICK TO WORK!!! So you lose your job AND your coverage for you AND your family. You have NO income unless your wife works and because of life altering exp you could get on your wifes ins which is likely worse than yours so that's why you were insured with them in the FIRST place.....


So anyway you lost your job AND your health coverage. So you are financially DESTITUDE. You may lose EVERYTHING including your HOUSE unless you go to bankruptcy.


Now here is MY plan. If you lose your job due to an illness the company has to pay their portion of your healthcare and the Gov't pays the remainder. If your illness is TERMINAL the company pays their share till you die. That way you can work on your RECOVERY rather than what bills you can pay this week. Whether you can pay your mortgage, your utilities, your food for your children, your meds your doctors
what on EARTH will you do. You will die and your wife will have to claim bankruptcy after you're gone because she won't be able to AFFORD to pay the massive uncovered bills.