Question for those pushing a "living wage"

[Skull Pilot]

What does she do? Let you bang her in the break room? LMAO. Or head jobs under your desk?

When I was an employee, you could be fired for not working the hours scheduled. Unemployment be damned. You need a person there to do the work or you don't. You run a welfare agency?
Must have been Obama that changed that eh?.

I think you are slinging bullshit now skull.

But I noticed that you can't describe the business that you have poured your life into in even the most simply way. You ashamed or what?

What kind of fucking business do you have?

I work with my wife you moron and this particular employee is married to a friend of mine so why don't you grow up?

It's obvious you don't understand the concept that firing her would be more expensive than keeping her on.

First you say I don't treat my employees well enough and that I just must be mistreating them because I own a business and now you say I'm not enough of a hard ass.

Make up your fucking mind.

First I didn't say anything about how you treat your employees one way or another.
You are making shit up or lying. I asked how you determined how much you pay them and that you do pay them a living wage. And I determined this by the fact you never answered whether or not your employees work part time jobs or get food stamps. So I figured they get by on what they earn with you. As it should be.

But...

You didn't seem to know what kind of shape your hourly workers are in. Except for your friends wife. And she complains about how she doesn't make enough money. But if she would only work the hours she should, all would be good. According to you.

No usually when you have a small company with long term employees (as you say you have) those business owners know a great deal about their employees.

But not you eh?

I don't know anything about the personal finances of my employees and it it is none of my business.

And all I ever said was that if she put in 40 hours a week she'd have more income I never implied anything would be "all good"

The point I was trying to make that sailed right over your head is that people complain all the time about shit but really won't do anything about it other than complain.

The same is true with the people crying about living wage and who think bagging burgers is worth 15 an hour when it's not.

 

[kaz]

What about not subsidizing workers so that they won't take jobs that won't pay the bills ?

If nobody shows up, then Wal-Mart can either raise wages or they can do without.

Government NOT give people welfare? I don't get it, how would that work exactly?

It would work great.

Walmart, in my estimation, has figured out how much their employees get in terms of total compensation including all the government goodies. They then adjust wages downward to the point that they can keep their employees and pay the least.

I hope you realize I was being facetious. I was referring to liberals inability to even imagine government not making our decisions and making life fair for us all with force. And this isn't how Walmart determines wages. The market does that, not Walmart. Walmart pays wages that attract the level of employee that they require to do the job they need done.

Walmart is great for our country, they offer massive jobs to the lowest end workers who need jobs the most. To sustain themselves, they need experience and the chance to become reliable workers. Walmart offers that across the country. The best move on to better positions that pay more, the middling stick around, the bad ones get tossed back into the ocean.

Liberals once again want to climb into power on the bodies of the people they claim to care about. If liberals actually cared about the poor, they would care that Walmart is offering them a great opportunity. However, it comes at a price. The ones who make it earn it, and they don't need Democratic dependency anymore. That is what scares the left the most.

 

[kaz]

What a dumb ass. Is this supposed to be serious?

I think communism will give you the results you want.

I know only communism - gov't confiscation and redistribution of private wealth - will give you the results you demand.

He's a small government communist you know...

 

[dblack]

And after than I'll get into fast food. Then maybe this mess with be fixed in a few generations. No I think some policy changes will work a bit faster.

Are you the President of the United States, the House Majority Leader, or the Senate Majority Leader?
If you are none of the above, I seriously doubt you can enact policy change at a federal level. But then, you are the self-proclaimed brain, so go for it.

No I am not. But I'm smart enough to know what would help and what wouldn't.

I'll try to keep that in mind.

 

[alan1]

The best thing about WalMart is that you can get hired there as a part time warehouse worker and end up becoming the CEO.

 

[zeke]

What does she do? Let you bang her in the break room? LMAO. Or head jobs under your desk?

When I was an employee, you could be fired for not working the hours scheduled. Unemployment be damned. You need a person there to do the work or you don't. You run a welfare agency?
Must have been Obama that changed that eh?.

I think you are slinging bullshit now skull.

But I noticed that you can't describe the business that you have poured your life into in even the most simply way. You ashamed or what?

What kind of fucking business do you have?

I work with my wife you moron and this particular employee is married to a friend of mine so why don't you grow up?

It's obvious you don't understand the concept that firing her would be more expensive than keeping her on.

First you say I don't treat my employees well enough and that I just must be mistreating them because I own a business and now you say I'm not enough of a hard ass.

Make up your fucking mind.

So you run a social welfare agency with your wife and your friends wife. Well alrighty then.
That explains just about everything.........except what is it that you DO?

And quit with the bullshit about how unemployment is so much more expensive than putting up with a worker that won't work the hours and do the job they were hired for.

Unless you gave the job and the income to this friends wife because they are your friends.

Not a very good example of personnel management from a business owner. But hey, you are the only one I know who claims you know what the fuck you are doing.

Are all your employee's your "friends" and get to work what ever hours they choose? Or do you discriminate against them because they are not your friends wife and threaten to fire them if they don't work the hours scheduled? Just curious.

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

No, they are not, but please explain whose wealth you would have our gov't confiscate to satisfy the min wagers.

Look, I understand opposing the minimum wage, but this is just ridiculous. Do you understand how the minimum wage works? It is a price control such that no one can buy an hour of labor for less than some specified amount.

I do not oppose a min wage based on market realities (which is what I believe we have).

Ok, great!
/End Thread

Your need to put your words in my mouth continues because it's the only way you can continue to whine.

Oh, here we go... And how is it putting words in your mouth to point out that your question is an admission of ignorance ?

There is nothing keeping an employer from paying more, again based on the same market realities, nor is anything keeping a worker from demanding more or moving on.

You really sound like you do not see the necessity of a minimum wage.

I just don't support some feel-good number you consider to be a "living wage" (whatever that is).

Just for the record, I never joined this "living wage v minimum wage" semantic dispute.
You and yours are building quite the monster out of that.

Right, so long as we don't use the word "living" to describe a price control on wages, you're cool?
How about "anti-destitution wage"? Or "minimum wage", we can use that. I don't care about your semantic dispute.
We can stop arguing. We can set "minimum wage" to be 200% of poverty and end this debate.

So the question remains ... whose wealth you would have our gov't confiscate to satisfy you and the min wagers?

And this is where you do not demonstrate an understanding of price controls. There's plenty of reasons to argue against price controls. This isn't one of them.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

No, they are not, but please explain whose wealth you would have our gov't confiscate to satisfy the min wagers.

Look, I understand opposing the minimum wage, but this is just ridiculous. Do you understand how the minimum wage works? It is a price control such that no one can buy an hour of labor for less than some specified amount.

It is applied in the opposite direction also. A person willing to work for less than minimum wage is prevented from doing so.
Just for example, suppose a mentally retarded person wanted a job washing cars at a car dealership (yes, they wash those cars regularly to keep them looking shiny and new). You or I could probably wash 5-6 cars an hour and earn our minimum wage. The mentally retarded guy, he may only be able to wash 3-4 cars an hour. That makes him worth $4 an hour as opposed to our $7.25 an hour. That means he can't get a job, even though he wants to and even though he can perform it. Minimum wage laws priced him out of employment that he is willing and able to perform.

Well, let's address that. How functional is the person in question? I ask because there are organizations which work with the mentally disabled.
Chimes - Providing Opportunities for People with Disabilities
These organizations set up places for the very disabled to have some constructive work doing things like inserting toys in those 25-cent bubbles. For the more functional cases, these types of organizations help set up jobs such as fetching carts at the supermarket, and all those jobs pay minimum wage. The question is not the wage but the number of hours the disabled person can handle. And those hours are not determined for self-sufficiency but rather to help the handicapped person have as rewarding a life as possible.

Unless we're now demanding that the mentally handicapped start proverbially pulling their own weight?
Because I like the system where the mentally handicapped have some care provided.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I work with my wife you moron and this particular employee is married to a friend of mine so why don't you grow up?

It's obvious you don't understand the concept that firing her would be more expensive than keeping her on.

First you say I don't treat my employees well enough and that I just must be mistreating them because I own a business and now you say I'm not enough of a hard ass.

Make up your fucking mind.

So you run a social welfare agency with your wife and your friends wife. Well alrighty then.
That explains just about everything.........except what is it that you DO?

And quit with the bullshit about how unemployment is so much more expensive than putting up with a worker that won't work the hours and do the job they were hired for.

Unless you gave the job and the income to this friends wife because they are your friends.

Not a very good example of personnel management from a business owner. But hey, you are the only one I know who claims you know what the fuck you are doing.

Are all your employee's your "friends" and get to work what ever hours they choose? Or do you discriminate against them because they are not your friends wife and threaten to fire them if they don't work the hours scheduled? Just curious.

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

 

[dblack]

So you run a social welfare agency with your wife and your friends wife. Well alrighty then.
That explains just about everything.........except what is it that you DO?

And quit with the bullshit about how unemployment is so much more expensive than putting up with a worker that won't work the hours and do the job they were hired for.

Unless you gave the job and the income to this friends wife because they are your friends.

Not a very good example of personnel management from a business owner. But hey, you are the only one I know who claims you know what the fuck you are doing.

Are all your employee's your "friends" and get to work what ever hours they choose? Or do you discriminate against them because they are not your friends wife and threaten to fire them if they don't work the hours scheduled? Just curious.

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

Yeah. I don't get the urge to personalize these debates, or even when not targeted at someone here, the preoccupation with arguing over what different people "deserve" to make salary wise. I guess they prefer that approach to discussing the principles involved. Or maybe they just take the principle as a given - they start with the assumption that government should be in charge of deciding what each of us earns, and move right on to debating how much it should be in a given case.

 

[zeke]

So you run a social welfare agency with your wife and your friends wife. Well alrighty then.
That explains just about everything.........except what is it that you DO?

And quit with the bullshit about how unemployment is so much more expensive than putting up with a worker that won't work the hours and do the job they were hired for.

Unless you gave the job and the income to this friends wife because they are your friends.

Not a very good example of personnel management from a business owner. But hey, you are the only one I know who claims you know what the fuck you are doing.

Are all your employee's your "friends" and get to work what ever hours they choose? Or do you discriminate against them because they are not your friends wife and threaten to fire them if they don't work the hours scheduled? Just curious.

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

That's kinda strange. Do the people in your town know that you run this business? Or is it a secret to them as well? But it was pertinent to the conversation because you pay 15 to 18 an hour for support staff. Which is pretty good by today non union standard. So of course people are curious as to what it is you do.

But oh well. It makes no difference to me. We won't be doing any business.

 

[zeke]

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

Yeah. I don't get the urge to personalize these debates, or even when not targeted at someone here, the preoccupation with arguing over what different people "deserve" to make salary wise. I guess they prefer that approach to discussing the principles involved. Or maybe they just take the principle as a given - they start with the assumption that government should be in charge of deciding what each of us earns, and move right on to debating how much it should be in a given case.

That's a stupid statement. There was no mention of government at all in the "conversation".

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.....................if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, the current rate would be around 10.50/hour.

The American dream at one time meant that you had ONE 9 to 5 job that allowed you to buy a house, support a family of 4 and have a car.

Now? In order to afford the American dream, if you earn minimum wage, you'd have to work 16 plus hours per day.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull, are you ashamed of the type of business you and your wife have?

I'll go first. My business is single family rentals. And contract carpentry. Almost 26 years as a landlord. Longer as a carpenter. I spent 18 years selling mortgage money. 100% commission job.

That my business. Past and present. What's yours?
Just curious. Don't tell me if you'd have to shoot me or anything like that. OK? Like if you run a spy ring or something.

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

That's kinda strange. Do the people in your town know that you run this business? Or is it a secret to them as well? But it was pertinent to the conversation because you pay 15 to 18 an hour for support staff. Which is pretty good by today non union standard. So of course people are curious as to what it is you do.

But oh well. It makes no difference to me. We won't be doing any business.

For all you know we might be already.

In all honesty most of our clients don't know I own the business since I work more behind the scenes. My wife is more of the public face of the business because she's better looking than I.

 

[zeke]

I have mentioned the town and county I live in more than once and since i am the only business of my type in my town and one of only 3 in my county I'd rather not say because I value my privacy.

I don't think the type of business we own is relevant to the discussion so I'll keep my business to myself.

That's kinda strange. Do the people in your town know that you run this business? Or is it a secret to them as well? But it was pertinent to the conversation because you pay 15 to 18 an hour for support staff. Which is pretty good by today non union standard. So of course people are curious as to what it is you do.

But oh well. It makes no difference to me. We won't be doing any business.

For all you know we might be already.

In all honesty most of our clients don't know I own the business since I work more behind the scenes. My wife is more of the public face of the business because she's better looking than I.

Not a chance. I know what city and county I live in. And it isn't the same ones you live in.
But I still find it strange that a person running a business that deals with the public can't say what that business is because you value your privacy? Is it manufacturing? Software development? Home improvement? Janitorial supplies? What?

Does your wife have 30000 plus posts of a message board? Maybe your business is the participation on a message board?

 

[Chris]

You know.....................if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, the current rate would be around 10.50/hour.

The American dream at one time meant that you had ONE 9 to 5 job that allowed you to buy a house, support a family of 4 and have a car.

Now? In order to afford the American dream, if you earn minimum wage, you'd have to work 16 plus hours per day.

Because the system is set up to reward ownership, not work.

 

[dblack]

You know.....................if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, the current rate would be around 10.50/hour.

The American dream at one time meant that you had ONE 9 to 5 job that allowed you to buy a house, support a family of 4 and have a car.

Now? In order to afford the American dream, if you earn minimum wage, you'd have to work 16 plus hours per day.

Because the system is set up to reward ownership, not work.

Have you given much thought to what "ownership" really means?

 

[Chris]

You know.....................if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, the current rate would be around 10.50/hour.

The American dream at one time meant that you had ONE 9 to 5 job that allowed you to buy a house, support a family of 4 and have a car.

Now? In order to afford the American dream, if you earn minimum wage, you'd have to work 16 plus hours per day.

Because the system is set up to reward ownership, not work.

Have you given much thought to what "ownership" really means?

Rich vs poor.

The rich are winning because they control the Congress.

Republicans hate working people, thus their desire to kill the unions and the minimum wage.

 

[alan1]

That's kinda strange. Do the people in your town know that you run this business? Or is it a secret to them as well? But it was pertinent to the conversation because you pay 15 to 18 an hour for support staff. Which is pretty good by today non union standard. So of course people are curious as to what it is you do.

But oh well. It makes no difference to me. We won't be doing any business.

For all you know we might be already.

In all honesty most of our clients don't know I own the business since I work more behind the scenes. My wife is more of the public face of the business because she's better looking than I.

Not a chance. I know what city and county I live in. And it isn't the same ones you live in.
But I still find it strange that a person running a business that deals with the public can't say what that business is because you value your privacy? Is it manufacturing? Software development? Home improvement? Janitorial supplies? What?

Does your wife have 30000 plus posts of a message board? Maybe your business is the participation on a message board?

On a message board, I don't find that the least bit strange.
On this board, I've never once publicly named the state I live in, the county I live in, the city I live in or the company I work for.

 

[rightwinger]

You know.....................if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, the current rate would be around 10.50/hour.

The American dream at one time meant that you had ONE 9 to 5 job that allowed you to buy a house, support a family of 4 and have a car.

Now? In order to afford the American dream, if you earn minimum wage, you'd have to work 16 plus hours per day.

Either the employer pays or the taxpayer pays

I tend to lean towards the employer