Question for those that support sanctuary cities/states.

[Humorme]

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Just so we're clear, what you're advocating is National Socialism lite. It is not the duty or obligation of any employer to provide you with a job.

My objective is to get the government out of my life so that I can provide for me and my family.

 

[Humorme]

Article 1, Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

Relying on a section that has been stricken through doesn't bode well for your argument. You do know what the importation of people was right? The slave owner was charged $10 for bringing a slave into the State. SMFH

The Constitution also says "migration"

But if there is no longer a $10 limit on fees, why not charge $50,000? It would solve all the immigration problems!

Step 1 - Begin to realize that not everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen of the United States

Step 2 - Learn the difference between the Rights of man versus the privileges of citizenship

Step 3 - Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens

Once you get that down you are ready for the next three.

Learn that crap you spew is Unconstitutional & retarded. However I am for improving the constitution.

You are a Retard to want Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens. We must bring in scientist, doctors, engineers, programmers, politically persecuted asylum seekers & spouses of US citizens, etc. up to 0.3% of our population per year. They should pay a $10K immigration fee.

I am for banning border jumpers, illegal immigrants & visa overstays. The ones who have been here less than 3 years should be deported ASAP. Any criminals or welfare dependents should also be deported ASAP. All good working ones here 3 years & over should have option of paying $20K fee + $10K for every year they failed to pay SS & income taxes to immediately become legal documented US citizen, or go before immigration Judge & face deportation.

You do realize that by disagreeing with me, you've now committed to spending tax dollars to provide health care to undocumented foreigners don't you? You've agreed to spend your tax dollars to educate children whose parents have no papers to be here. You think that is sound policy? I see that kind of policy as being irrational since it encourages people to come here regardless of any perceived criminal consequences.

Yes, I do believe that only citizens should vote in our elections. I do believe that a free education should be limited to citizens. I do believe that only citizens should be able to avail themselves of Social Security, welfare, unemployment benefits, disability from Uncle Scam. I won't apologize for it.

The people are your side of this are going to begin wondering who the real retard is.

 

[danielpalos]

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Just so we're clear, what you're advocating is National Socialism lite. It is not the duty or obligation of any employer to provide you with a job.

My objective is to get the government out of my life so that I can provide for me and my family.

Not even in right wing, Right to Work States?

 

[Humorme]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Those who are so gung ho to punish undocumented foreigners have zero concept of Due Process.

 

[Humorme]

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Just so we're clear, what you're advocating is National Socialism lite. It is not the duty or obligation of any employer to provide you with a job.

My objective is to get the government out of my life so that I can provide for me and my family.

Not even in right wing, Right to Work States?

An employer should have private property Rights which includes the Right to hire whomever they think will best do the job. In other words, I support every Americans Right to discriminate.

The privileges of citizenship, however, should not extend to non-citizens. IF the government were to create a way for those who are undocumented to work "legally" as the extremists want to call it, if they are paying into the system via taxes, they should be able to draw against it just like anybody else.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

An immigrant is entitled to a presumption of innocence and is not ‘illegal’ until such time as he has been found guilty in a court of law of entering the country absent authorization – that one is undocumented does not mean he’s ‘illegal.’

That an immigrant might lack documentation doesn’t warrant his detention by local jurisdictions, who should do so pursuant solely to a Federal warrant.

Hence the myth of a ‘sanctuary city’ – one cannot afford ‘sanctuary’ to someone who is innocent of a crime.

 

[danielpalos]

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Those who are so gung ho to punish undocumented foreigners have zero concept of Due Process.

Socialism on a national basis is all they seem to know.

 

[danielpalos]

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Just so we're clear, what you're advocating is National Socialism lite. It is not the duty or obligation of any employer to provide you with a job.

My objective is to get the government out of my life so that I can provide for me and my family.

Not even in right wing, Right to Work States?

An employer should have private property Rights which includes the Right to hire whomever they think will best do the job. In other words, I support every Americans Right to discriminate.

The privileges of citizenship, however, should not extend to non-citizens. IF the government were to create a way for those who are undocumented to work "legally" as the extremists want to call it, if they are paying into the system via taxes, they should be able to draw against it just like anybody else.

I have no problem with the legal concept of employment at will.

It is the right wing that has a problem with equal protection of the law.

Unemployment compensation is a more cost effective and market friendly social safety net.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Article 1, Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

Relying on a section that has been stricken through doesn't bode well for your argument. You do know what the importation of people was right? The slave owner was charged $10 for bringing a slave into the State. SMFH

The Constitution also says "migration"

But if there is no longer a $10 limit on fees, why not charge $50,000? It would solve all the immigration problems!

Step 1 - Begin to realize that not everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen of the United States

Step 2 - Learn the difference between the Rights of man versus the privileges of citizenship

Step 3 - Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens

Once you get that down you are ready for the next three.

Learn that crap you spew is Unconstitutional & retarded. However I am for improving the constitution.

You are a Retard to want Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens. We must bring in scientist, doctors, engineers, programmers, politically persecuted asylum seekers & spouses of US citizens, etc. up to 0.3% of our population per year. They should pay a $10K immigration fee.

I am for banning border jumpers, illegal immigrants & visa overstays. The ones who have been here less than 3 years should be deported ASAP. Any criminals or welfare dependents should also be deported ASAP. All good working ones here 3 years & over should have option of paying $20K fee + $10K for every year they failed to pay SS & income taxes to immediately become legal documented US citizen, or go before immigration Judge & face deportation.

You do realize that by disagreeing with me, you've now committed to spending tax dollars to provide health care to undocumented foreigners don't you? You've agreed to spend your tax dollars to educate children whose parents have no papers to be here. You think that is sound policy? I see that kind of policy as being irrational since it encourages people to come here regardless of any perceived criminal consequences.

Yes, I do believe that only citizens should vote in our elections. I do believe that a free education should be limited to citizens. I do believe that only citizens should be able to avail themselves of Social Security, welfare, unemployment benefits, disability from Uncle Scam. I won't apologize for it.

The people are your side of this are going to begin wondering who the real retard is.

Unemployment and welfare are at the state level, not federal. Through Totalization Agreements some are entitled to Social Security benefits. SMFH

By disagreeing with you then we are committed to spending tax dollars to provide health care and education to illegals? Yet you claim they pay into the tax system, and is it not taxes that pay for education and some emergency medical they use? Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too. You speak with forked tongue White Nationalist.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Those who are so gung ho to punish undocumented foreigners have zero concept of Due Process.

Explain Expedited Removal and why when used there is no due process.....I'll wait. LMFAO at your sheer stupidity.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

An employer should have private property Rights which includes the Right to hire whomever they think will best do the job. In other words, I support every Americans Right to discriminate.

They have that right already, they are simply limited to the pool of eligible workers. SHRUG

The privileges of citizenship, however, should not extend to non-citizens. IF the government were to create a way for those who are undocumented to work "legally" as the extremists want to call it, if they are paying into the system via taxes, they should be able to draw against it just like anybody else.

They can via Totalization Agreements. Some can even request those very taxes be refunded in their 1040 tax forms.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

An immigrant is entitled to a presumption of innocence and is not ‘illegal’ until such time as he has been found guilty in a court of law of entering the country absent authorization – that one is undocumented does not mean he’s ‘illegal.’

That an immigrant might lack documentation doesn’t warrant his detention by local jurisdictions, who should do so pursuant solely to a Federal warrant.

Hence the myth of a ‘sanctuary city’ – one cannot afford ‘sanctuary’ to someone who is innocent of a crime.

Explain Expedited Removal where in no due process is required. SMFH

 

[Liquid Reigns]

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

I suggest you look into Expedited Removal. Expedited removal - Wikipedia

Maybe it is you that doesn't know as much as you think you do wanna-be cop.

 

[Humorme]

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Just so we're clear, what you're advocating is National Socialism lite. It is not the duty or obligation of any employer to provide you with a job.

My objective is to get the government out of my life so that I can provide for me and my family.

Not even in right wing, Right to Work States?

An employer should have private property Rights which includes the Right to hire whomever they think will best do the job. In other words, I support every Americans Right to discriminate.

The privileges of citizenship, however, should not extend to non-citizens. IF the government were to create a way for those who are undocumented to work "legally" as the extremists want to call it, if they are paying into the system via taxes, they should be able to draw against it just like anybody else.

I have no problem with the legal concept of employment at will.

It is the right wing that has a problem with equal protection of the law.

Unemployment compensation is a more cost effective and market friendly social safety net.

In the 1970s through the early 2000s I considered myself right of center as a student of American history and constitutional government. Today, the people you call the right wing are 180 degrees opposite of the old kind of people you would find in the John Birch Society, Young Republicans Club, National Taxpayers Union, and the Conservative Caucus.

Begrudgingly, I have to admit that you're right on this. That's really hard to admit to. Those on the right have NO conception of innocent until proven guilty. They've found a convenient pretext to call people "illegal aliens" without ever having to extend Due Process because that it is more palatable than calling them mud people, sand (expletive deleted), etc. wherein their true motives become a bit clearer.

Bernie Sanders tells people up front that he is a socialist. Those who want a perpetual war over the immigration issue - one to the point that they cannot discuss the issue rationally want National Socialism and from time to time, the facts emerge in their angry and spiteful posts.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

I suggest you look into Expedited Removal. Expedited removal - Wikipedia

Maybe it is you that doesn't know as much as you think you do wanna-be cop.

Fair enough. From your source:

"Status claimants[edit]
Anybody who states under oath to a border agent that he or she is a citizen, lawful permanent resident, or asylee cannot be subject to expedited removal and gets an opportunity to appear before an immigration judge. Lying about one's status in these circumstances may make one inadmissible and could even lead to a lifetime bar to U.S. admission.[1]

Voluntary return[edit]
The officer at a designated port of entry may discretionarily give people being turned back the option of "voluntary return" as an alternative to expedited removal. A voluntary return also goes on the person's immigration record, but has fewer serious legal consequences for attempted future entry than an order of removal.[1]


Of course, I already explained this in post 109, but it does not dovetail with with your desire to take away civil liberties from US citizens, so you do not accept it, even from your own source..

 

[Liquid Reigns]

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

I suggest you look into Expedited Removal. Expedited removal - Wikipedia

Maybe it is you that doesn't know as much as you think you do wanna-be cop.

Fair enough. From your source:

"Status claimants[edit]
Anybody who states under oath to a border agent that he or she is a citizen, lawful permanent resident, or asylee cannot be subject to expedited removal and gets an opportunity to appear before an immigration judge. Lying about one's status in these circumstances may make one inadmissible and could even lead to a lifetime bar to U.S. admission.[1]

Voluntary return[edit]
The officer at a designated port of entry may discretionarily give people being turned back the option of "voluntary return" as an alternative to expedited removal. A voluntary return also goes on the person's immigration record, but has fewer serious legal consequences for attempted future entry than an order of removal.[1]


Of course, I already explained this in post 109, but it does not dovetail with with your desire to take away civil liberties from US citizens, so you do not accept it, even from your own source..

I have no desire to take away civil liberties from citizens, and immigration law does no such thing. An illegal can be charged and given a hearing, and in many instances they are, yet it is not a requirement in order to remove an illegal from the US, the crime is still recognized and the result is the same without due process.

There is also Administrative Removal which doesn't require due process. So now there are 2 types of removals that doesn't require due process.

Administrative removal for aggravated felons: This is a process where those convicted of an aggravated felony may be removed immediately after finishing their prison term without going through removal proceedings.

Now explain how immigration law effects a citizens civil liberties. SMFH

 

[Vandalshandle]

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

I suggest you look into Expedited Removal. Expedited removal - Wikipedia

Maybe it is you that doesn't know as much as you think you do wanna-be cop.

Fair enough. From your source:

"Status claimants[edit]
Anybody who states under oath to a border agent that he or she is a citizen, lawful permanent resident, or asylee cannot be subject to expedited removal and gets an opportunity to appear before an immigration judge. Lying about one's status in these circumstances may make one inadmissible and could even lead to a lifetime bar to U.S. admission.[1]

Voluntary return[edit]
The officer at a designated port of entry may discretionarily give people being turned back the option of "voluntary return" as an alternative to expedited removal. A voluntary return also goes on the person's immigration record, but has fewer serious legal consequences for attempted future entry than an order of removal.[1]


Of course, I already explained this in post 109, but it does not dovetail with with your desire to take away civil liberties from US citizens, so you do not accept it, even from your own source..

I have no desire to take away civil liberties from citizens, and immigration law does no such thing. An illegal can be charged and given a hearing, and in many instances they are, yet it is not a requirement in order to remove an illegal from the US, the crime is still recognized and the result is the same without due process.

There is also Administrative Removal which doesn't require due process. So now there are 2 types of removals that doesn't require due process.

Administrative removal for aggravated felons: This is a process where those convicted of an aggravated felony may be removed immediately after finishing their prison term without going through removal proceedings.

Now explain how immigration law effects a citizens civil liberties. SMFH

Even when I quote your OWN SOURCE, clearly stating that due process can only be circumvented if the suspect agrees not to contest it, you STILL double down on your misinformation! Nobody has the unilateral right to deny a suspect in this country a right to a hearing or a trial. For crying out loud, Liquid, turn off your AM radio...

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

Perhaps, you can link where illegals have been kicked out of the country without a trial. Now, I know that you don't know anything about the issue, so I will correct your first mistake, before you even make it. If the Border Patrol catches someone in the process of crossing the border, or soon thereafter, the person is sometimes given a choice as to whether or not he wants to be arrested, and go to trial, or to volunteer to be taken back to the border. This is not being "kicked out". The person must volunteer to cross the border. Get out your 8th grade Civics book, and read up on the fact that in America, nobody is guilty until proven guilty. While you are at it, read this:

Detainees Sentenced in Seconds in ‘Streamline’ Justice on Border

I suggest you look into Expedited Removal. Expedited removal - Wikipedia

Maybe it is you that doesn't know as much as you think you do wanna-be cop.

Fair enough. From your source:

"Status claimants[edit]
Anybody who states under oath to a border agent that he or she is a citizen, lawful permanent resident, or asylee cannot be subject to expedited removal and gets an opportunity to appear before an immigration judge. Lying about one's status in these circumstances may make one inadmissible and could even lead to a lifetime bar to U.S. admission.[1]

Voluntary return[edit]
The officer at a designated port of entry may discretionarily give people being turned back the option of "voluntary return" as an alternative to expedited removal. A voluntary return also goes on the person's immigration record, but has fewer serious legal consequences for attempted future entry than an order of removal.[1]


Of course, I already explained this in post 109, but it does not dovetail with with your desire to take away civil liberties from US citizens, so you do not accept it, even from your own source..

I have no desire to take away civil liberties from citizens, and immigration law does no such thing. An illegal can be charged and given a hearing, and in many instances they are, yet it is not a requirement in order to remove an illegal from the US, the crime is still recognized and the result is the same without due process.

There is also Administrative Removal which doesn't require due process. So now there are 2 types of removals that doesn't require due process.

Administrative removal for aggravated felons: This is a process where those convicted of an aggravated felony may be removed immediately after finishing their prison term without going through removal proceedings.

Now explain how immigration law effects a citizens civil liberties. SMFH

Even when I quote your OWN SOURCE, clearly stating that due process can only be circumvented if the suspect agrees not to contest it, you STILL double down on your misinformation! Nobody has the unilateral right to deny a suspect in this country a right to a hearing or a trial. For crying out loud, Liquid, turn off your AM radio...

SMFH
I'm guessing you have a hard time with reading the English language. A Status Claimant must claim asylum, US Citizenship, or LPR status in order to get a hearing with an asylum officer (not even an IJ), without claiming one of those 3 status the illegal is SOL and he/she can be expediently removed without due process, and if the asylum officer denies asylum, it's by-by illegal, again no IJ and no due process.

Voluntary Returns are those caught at a port of entry, they are given the option of returning themselves which has less of a consequence on future entry attempts.

Now, you have yet to prove what bear claimed is incorrect, that there are actually ways to remove illegals without due process, Expedited Removal and Administrative Removal. All you have to do is accept the fact that what you claimed was based on your ignorance

Now, when are you going to show what citizens civil liberties are lost via immigration law? :YAWN:

 

[KissMy]

Trump slowed deportations & had 42,000 undocumented workers incarcerated. They have filled jails with these undocumented workers so there is no room to incarcerate real criminals. The expensive full jails are causing police to slow down their arrest & incarceration of real criminals. So now we spend $Billions more & have rising crime.