Question for those who actually believe 'transgenderism' is a real thing?

[Lucy Hamilton]

Oh geez, now we have a bunch of "historians" on this thread.

Yes, the same with the fall of Ancient Greece....and Sodom and Gomorrah etc.

Let's leave the Bible talk out of it.

Sodom and Gomorrah actually happened. At least the raining down of fire and brimstone around that area of the middle east at that time. The Bible has verifiably true stories in it.

You are going off topic. Let's stick to reality, shall we?

Hey Chris, it's not off topic, it's correct.

It's off topic. Mr. Gestapo wants to talk about transsexuals.

This is in Current Events, so it's not off topic is it, it is relevant to the discussion.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The left wants to pretend that it's normal for a man to wear a ruuber [sic] woman suit.

Meet creator behind bizarre female body suit craze

Makes one think of Ed Gein.

 

[ChrisL]

So . . . do you really want to go here on this thread?

Historical Mysteries: Did Christianity destroy the Roman Empire?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I didn't say that's the only reason why, it was a contributing factor in it's downfall... Hedonism, sloth, bread and circuses.. All of it played a role.

How did it play a role?

A lot of lover's spats turned violent amongst the elite... You do know men get jealous over women sometimes right? Same applies to gays. But to be historically correct....they were all pretty much bisexual...the concept of being solely attracted to the same sex was foreign to them.

And I'm supposed to take YOUR word for this? Lol. I think it had more to do with the invading barbarians. Nobody is invincible.

If a Civilisation breaks down Chris, in the cases of the one's we've mentioned, because of legalised rampant degeneracy and Hedonism....then it's far easier for those Civilisations to be over run with an invading force.

Societal degeneracy and Hedonism lead ultimately to weakness and weakness leads ultimately, on that scale, to collapse.

Some historians say it was "religion" which was one of the causes.

Yes some historians....I myself have a History degree, so it's not as if I'm not aware of what I'm discussing.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Oh geez, now we have a bunch of "historians" on this thread.

Hey Chris, it's not off topic, it's correct.

It's off topic. Mr. Gestapo wants to talk about transsexuals.

Yes but it's important to put today's situation into a wider historical context....because previous robust Civilisations have been where we are exactly today, and they all collapsed.

We must learn from our World History, both Modern History and Ancient History and anyone who refuses to learn from history is exceptionally foolish.

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

The left wants to pretend that it's normal for a man to wear a ruuber [sic] woman suit.

Meet creator behind bizarre female body suit craze

Makes one think of Ed Gein.

NO....I am so NOT clicking on your link....total sick POS and I just don't want to read about him again.

Once was enough years ago

 

[ChrisL]

How did it play a role?

A lot of lover's spats turned violent amongst the elite... You do know men get jealous over women sometimes right? Same applies to gays. But to be historically correct....they were all pretty much bisexual...the concept of being solely attracted to the same sex was foreign to them.

And I'm supposed to take YOUR word for this? Lol. I think it had more to do with the invading barbarians. Nobody is invincible.

If a Civilisation breaks down Chris, in the cases of the one's we've mentioned, because of legalised rampant degeneracy and Hedonism....then it's far easier for those Civilisations to be over run with an invading force.

Societal degeneracy and Hedonism lead ultimately to weakness and weakness leads ultimately, on that scale, to collapse.

Some historians say it was "religion" which was one of the causes.

Yes some historians....I myself have a History degree, so it's not as if I'm not aware of what I'm discussing.

Okay, bring it.

 

[ChrisL]

I'll take the side that Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire. Here is some information from my link that I find to make a lot more sense than your hypothesis that it was gays who destroyed the Roman Empire.

Over the centuries Rome also adopted and absorbed foreign practices and religious cults into the greater pagan pantheon. Isis, an Egyptian fertility goddess became a popular deity in Rome. Mithras, a deity with possible Persian origins, had a secret cult in Rome that was particularly popular with the military. Sol Invictus, an eastern sun god, became very popular in the later Roman Empire period. Throughout all this though, most Romans continued to honor their traditional pantheon of gods and goddess. Sacrifices to Jupiter were still made. The Vestal Virgins still tended the sacred fire in Rome that, it was said, could not be allowed to go out.

This all changed with the coming of Theodosius the Great. In February of 380 AD, Theodosius declared Christianity, based on the Nicene Creed, as the only official religion of Rome. In 382 AD, the Alter of Victory was removed from the Curia forever and destroyed. The Ancient Olympic Games, a religious festival as much as an athletic competition, were last held in 393 AD and eventually banned. In 394 AD, Theodosius disbanded the Vestal Virgins and has the sacred flame extinguished. Temples were converted to churches or destroyed. Participating in any pagan religious right or ceremony was considered, essentially, treason and grounds for execution.

Theodosius the Great died in 395 AD. Upon his death, the Roman Empire was split into an eastern half and a western half, each governed by one of his sons. The empire would never be united again. In 410 AD, just thirty years after the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of Rome, the Visigoth under Alaric I sacked Rome. This was the first time a foreign army had sacked Rome in almost 800 years. Only sixty years later, as mentioned above, Romulus Augustulus was deposed and the Roman Empire was gone forever.

So, question remains, was the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the empire the cause of the empire's fall less than one hundred years later? There is evidence that many people at the time felt that there was. They were concerned that the break with the traditional pantheon angered the gods who punished Rome. In fact, St. Augustine of Hippo wrote the City of God soon after the sack of Rome in 410 AD in an attempt to address this very question. Augustine essentially dodged the question and attempted to console the early Christians that it was the City of God, not the City of Rome, that truly mattered.

Apart from the metaphysical argument, there is also an argument that the adoption of the new religion was a divisive force and drove the empire apart just at a time when it needed a strong, unifying force to face increasing threats from the outside. The period in European history, called the Volkerwanderung or Migration Period, was a time of great upheaval in Northern and Eastern Europe. Possibly due to climatic changes, tribes like the Goths, the Franks, the Angles, the Saxons, the Vandals and the Huns began migrating west and south into the Roman Empire. Britain was abandoned in the face of Angle and Saxon raids by 407. Honorius, the son of Theodosis the Great and Emperor of the Western Empire, sent a letter in 410 telling the Roman Britons to essentially fend for themselves. Most of Hispania (modern day Spain) was ceded to the Visigoths after their sack of Rome in 418. The Huns, under Attila, raided raided Thrace and the Baltic before moving into Gaul in 451. Cities were cut off. Some welcomed the invaders. The political strength of Rome as a unifying idea was over.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Oh geez, now we have a bunch of "historians" on this thread.

Let's leave the Bible talk out of it.

Sodom and Gomorrah actually happened. At least the raining down of fire and brimstone around that area of the middle east at that time. The Bible has verifiably true stories in it.

You are going off topic. Let's stick to reality, shall we?

Hey Chris, it's not off topic, it's correct.

It's off topic. Mr. Gestapo wants to talk about transsexuals.

This is in Current Events, so it's not off topic is it, it is relevant to the discussion.

So . . . do you really want to go here on this thread?

Historical Mysteries: Did Christianity destroy the Roman Empire?

I'll give that a read later on. Thanks for the link.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

A lot of lover's spats turned violent amongst the elite... You do know men get jealous over women sometimes right? Same applies to gays. But to be historically correct....they were all pretty much bisexual...the concept of being solely attracted to the same sex was foreign to them.

And I'm supposed to take YOUR word for this? Lol. I think it had more to do with the invading barbarians. Nobody is invincible.

If a Civilisation breaks down Chris, in the cases of the one's we've mentioned, because of legalised rampant degeneracy and Hedonism....then it's far easier for those Civilisations to be over run with an invading force.

Societal degeneracy and Hedonism lead ultimately to weakness and weakness leads ultimately, on that scale, to collapse.

Some historians say it was "religion" which was one of the causes.

Yes some historians....I myself have a History degree, so it's not as if I'm not aware of what I'm discussing.

Okay, bring it.

Showdown at the USMB Corral!

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

A lot of lover's spats turned violent amongst the elite... You do know men get jealous over women sometimes right? Same applies to gays. But to be historically correct....they were all pretty much bisexual...the concept of being solely attracted to the same sex was foreign to them.

And I'm supposed to take YOUR word for this? Lol. I think it had more to do with the invading barbarians. Nobody is invincible.

If a Civilisation breaks down Chris, in the cases of the one's we've mentioned, because of legalised rampant degeneracy and Hedonism....then it's far easier for those Civilisations to be over run with an invading force.

Societal degeneracy and Hedonism lead ultimately to weakness and weakness leads ultimately, on that scale, to collapse.

Some historians say it was "religion" which was one of the causes.

Yes some historians....I myself have a History degree, so it's not as if I'm not aware of what I'm discussing.

Okay, bring it.

Oh, so you're attempting to start trouble now huh?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

And I'm supposed to take YOUR word for this? Lol. I think it had more to do with the invading barbarians. Nobody is invincible.

If a Civilisation breaks down Chris, in the cases of the one's we've mentioned, because of legalised rampant degeneracy and Hedonism....then it's far easier for those Civilisations to be over run with an invading force.

Societal degeneracy and Hedonism lead ultimately to weakness and weakness leads ultimately, on that scale, to collapse.

Some historians say it was "religion" which was one of the causes.

Yes some historians....I myself have a History degree, so it's not as if I'm not aware of what I'm discussing.

Okay, bring it.

Showdown at the USMB Corral!

Chris can go on like this for....days....seemingly sans bathroom breaks or anything

 

[ChrisL]

Oh geez, now we have a bunch of "historians" on this thread.
It's off topic. Mr. Gestapo wants to talk about transsexuals.

Yes but it's important to put today's situation into a wider historical context....because previous robust Civilisations have been where we are exactly today, and they all collapsed.

We must learn from our World History, both Modern History and Ancient History and anyone who refuses to learn from history is exceptionally foolish.

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Yes but it's important to put today's situation into a wider historical context....because previous robust Civilisations have been where we are exactly today, and they all collapsed.

We must learn from our World History, both Modern History and Ancient History and anyone who refuses to learn from history is exceptionally foolish.

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.

It's a good thing we can't incorporate the Vomitoriums into this discussion

Vomitorium doesn't appear until the 4th Century AD, hundreds of years post-Caesar and Cicero.

Vomitoria, is from vomō, vomere, vomuī, vomitum, vomitus, essentially all variations of "to spew forth".

WTF?! How did I get onto this topic?!

Edited to add comment.

 

[ChrisL]

The Fall of the Roman Empire [ushistory.org]

Constantine and the Rise of Christianity
One of the many factors that contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire was the rise of a new religion, Christianity. The Christian religion, which was monotheistic ran counter to the traditional Roman religion, which was polytheistic (many gods). At different times, the Romans persecuted the Christians because of their beliefs, which were popular among the poor.

This 16th-century medallion depicts Attila the Hun, one of the most vicious invaders of all time.
In 313 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine the Great ended all persecution and declared toleration for Christianity. Later that century, Christianity became the official state religion of the Empire. This drastic change in policy spread this relatively new religion to every corner of the Empire.

By approving Christianity, the Roman state directly undermined its religious traditions. Finally, by this time, Romans considered their emperor a god. But the Christian belief in one god — who was not the emperor — weakened the authority and credibility of the emperor.

Constantine enacted another change that helped accelerate the fall of the Roman Empire. In 330 C.E., he split the empire into two parts: the western half centered in Rome and the eastern half centered in Constantinople, a city he named after himself.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Yes but it's important to put today's situation into a wider historical context....because previous robust Civilisations have been where we are exactly today, and they all collapsed.

We must learn from our World History, both Modern History and Ancient History and anyone who refuses to learn from history is exceptionally foolish.

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.

That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.

 

[ChrisL]

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.

It's a good thing we can't incorporate the Vomitoriums into this discussion

Lol. Cute but I thought you wanted to debate me about the Fall of the Roman Empire? After all, I'm not a historian. I will be doing my research in between postings, so you have a huge head start on me, being a historian and all.

 

[Gracie]

Oh geez, now we have a bunch of "historians" on this thread.

You are going off topic. Let's stick to reality, shall we?

Hey Chris, it's not off topic, it's correct.

It's off topic. Mr. Gestapo wants to talk about transsexuals.

Yes but it's important to put today's situation into a wider historical context....because previous robust Civilisations have been where we are exactly today, and they all collapsed.

We must learn from our World History, both Modern History and Ancient History and anyone who refuses to learn from history is exceptionally foolish.

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

Appeal to authority fallacy. You don't need to be a historian to know history. I am an autodidact and a learning addict, I've read over 3,000 books on various topics that interested me in my life. Its not hard to get a good grasp on history without being an eggheaded academic.

Well..whatever you do is fine with me. I enjoy your posts.

But..the sun is calling me so I am off to the back yard for awhile.

 

[ChrisL]

But you are not a historian, and even real historians are not sure. Lol.

And nobody here is a doctor or a shrink either, yet we are all discussing the same topic...without credentials. Just opinions. And in my opinion, history is a major factor in the subject.

But nobody really KNOWS why the Roman Empire fell. People can be familiar with psychiatric symptoms and psychiatric diseases.

We do know what was going on when it fell and yes, there was a lot of sodomizing going on. Lol

That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.

That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.

And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

The Fall of the Roman Empire [ushistory.org]

Constantine and the Rise of Christianity
One of the many factors that contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire was the rise of a new religion, Christianity. The Christian religion, which was monotheistic ran counter to the traditional Roman religion, which was polytheistic (many gods). At different times, the Romans persecuted the Christians because of their beliefs, which were popular among the poor.

This 16th-century medallion depicts Attila the Hun, one of the most vicious invaders of all time.
In 313 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine the Great ended all persecution and declared toleration for Christianity. Later that century, Christianity became the official state religion of the Empire. This drastic change in policy spread this relatively new religion to every corner of the Empire.

By approving Christianity, the Roman state directly undermined its religious traditions. Finally, by this time, Romans considered their emperor a god. But the Christian belief in one god — who was not the emperor — weakened the authority and credibility of the emperor.

Constantine enacted another change that helped accelerate the fall of the Roman Empire. In 330 C.E., he split the empire into two parts: the western half centered in Rome and the eastern half centered in Constantinople, a city he named after himself.

So Christianity influenced the Roman people to not worship a man as god and you think that was a bad thing? Why?