Questions.....RE: The Greenhouse Effect

[Toddsterpatriot]

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

Are they blocked? Or do they manage to leave the Sun's surface?

well it isn't known now is it?

You don't know if photons can leave the surface of the Sun? Wow.

Trying to divert attention away from the fact that you had no idea where those temperatures were coming from...or that you don't know how to plug numbers into the SB equation?

Trying to divert attention away from the fact that you had no idea where those temperatures were coming from

If the only radiation hitting the surface was from the Sun, the temperature would be 255K.
Is that the only radiation?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...

Like most of your claims.

but it isn't his claim. derp

His claim was -18 and -18 give you something warmer.

Who else claimed that besides SSDD?

he never claimed that all. not sure what thread your in?

two radiators...both radiating ...239.7wm^2 equates to a radiating temperature of -18 degrees....so they combine the radiation from these two radiators which are radiating at -18 degrees and suddenly you have a temperature of 29.85 degrees...

Post #135.

Yep...absolutely stupid...but it forms the basis for the greenhouse effect...and apparently you are a firm believer in it...

Yes, back radiation from the atmosphere to the surface is the greenhouse effect. And?

 

[SSDD]

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

Are they blocked? Or do they manage to leave the Sun's surface?

well it isn't known now is it?

You don't know if photons can leave the surface of the Sun? Wow.

well post it up bubba, show us

So this is the part where they come in and try to bury how badly they lost in post after post of inane bullshit....I suppose the contents of this thread would make good fodder for another thread...the fact that these people argue in favor of the greenhouse effect and are perfectly willing to tell you how smart they are and you aren't...when they are clearly incapable of even the simplest math would make a damned fine thread I think..complete with some absolutely hilarious examples of the level of ignorance they presented.

 

[SSDD]

Yes, I agree that he is not worth talking to. He is a troll and I am feeding him. But I am always curious how deep his layering of stupid on top of stupid will go. And yes, it is quite futile because he pretends to disbelieve all the science starting at the dawn of thermodynamics.

and yet you can't seem to answer his most basic question. How is it you all think -18 to -18 will get 29? It is the only way to achieve greenhouse effect. You know this right? or have you answered how the earth surface could emit more than it absorbs.

How is it you all think -18 to -18 will get 29?

Who said that? Where?

another one who can't read a simple graphic and understand what is being stated... Here...let me help you out...

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere and some judicious misuse of the SB equations yields you a radiating temperature of 303K which is 29.85C

It has become more than obvious that none of you yahoos has even the slightest idea of the wacko misuse of the SB law and the laws of thermodynamics that go into the lunacy that is the greenhouse effect...you have just been believing because all the questions that you ask...and the comments that wuwei has made make it more than clear that you can't read the equations for yourself and know what they say..

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

I have already pointed it out to him numerous times...he just doesn't like it so he lies and says that no one has explained it to him....the fact is that energy won't SPONTANEOUSLY move from cool to warm..it can move from cool to warm..just not spontaneously...energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...toddster likes to think that there is no work going on in the sun or on its surface...all that conversion of elements into heat and light in toddsters world doesn't equate to work...

 

[Olde Europe]

I see old europe just showed up to type in a one liner and now has exited from the building...relieving him of his duty to tell us what he thinks that equation says...and I was so looking forward to it...

Nope, I have not left. I am just watching eminently smart Same Shit, Different Day debasing himself, compounding his embarrassment, reinforced by his doubly smart sock puppet, JC, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Do please proceed, SSDD.

 

[SSDD]

I see old europe just showed up to type in a one liner and now has exited from the building...relieving him of his duty to tell us what he thinks that equation says...and I was so looking forward to it...

Nope, I have not left. I am just watching eminently smart Same Shit, Different Day debasing himself, compounding his embarrassment, reinforced by his doubly smart sock puppet, JC, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Do please proceed, SSDD.

I can't help but notice that you aren't saying what you think that equation says....what's the matter genius...it isn't even algebra...surely a smart guy like you can tell me what you think it says...

 

[SSDD]

let me guess...you aren't going to say because your mom is calling you home for dinner...lucky for me...right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

and yet you can't seem to answer his most basic question. How is it you all think -18 to -18 will get 29? It is the only way to achieve greenhouse effect. You know this right? or have you answered how the earth surface could emit more than it absorbs.

How is it you all think -18 to -18 will get 29?

Who said that? Where?

another one who can't read a simple graphic and understand what is being stated... Here...let me help you out...

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere and some judicious misuse of the SB equations yields you a radiating temperature of 303K which is 29.85C

It has become more than obvious that none of you yahoos has even the slightest idea of the wacko misuse of the SB law and the laws of thermodynamics that go into the lunacy that is the greenhouse effect...you have just been believing because all the questions that you ask...and the comments that wuwei has made make it more than clear that you can't read the equations for yourself and know what they say..

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

I have already pointed it out to him numerous times...he just doesn't like it so he lies and says that no one has explained it to him....the fact is that energy won't SPONTANEOUSLY move from cool to warm..it can move from cool to warm..just not spontaneously...energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...toddster likes to think that there is no work going on in the sun or on its surface...all that conversion of elements into heat and light in toddsters world doesn't equate to work...

energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...

You're confused, there is no fusion taking place at the surface.

 

[SSDD]

You're confused, there is no fusion taking place at the surface.

So you think that what happens in side the sun has no effect on the surface...interesting...instead of being an idiot...go learn how to figure out temperatures based on radiating wm2 or wm2 based on temperatures...something actually useful...and you might take some time to learn to read a simple equation...because you clearly don't know how to do that either...

 

[polarbear]

So all these engineers who design electronics have it all wrong when they add more fins to a power transistor heat sink, because they radiate back at each other.

Without fan cooling these radiative heat sinks can get it down to as low as 0.3 deg C per watt

Scroll down to page 7 on this pdf, thats where the math & data is for radiative heat transfer for a TO3 style heat sink:
https://www.comsol.co.in/paper/download/83831/eppes_presentation.pdf

 

[SSDD]

So all these engineers who design electronics have it all wrong when they add more fins to a power transistor heat sink, because they radiate back at each other.

Without fan cooling these radiative heat sinks can get it down to as low as 0.3 deg C per watt

Scroll down to page 7 on this pdf, thats where the math & data is for radiative heat transfer for a TO3 style heat sink:
https://www.comsol.co.in/paper/download/83831/eppes_presentation.pdf

But the atmosphere is magic...in the atmosphere apparently you add radiative output of two objects together to get a high output rather than calculate their combined output based on the difference between their temperature giving you some value in between the highest and the lowest...makes you wonder why we don't build power stations based on that magic principle...personally, I think it would be great if my power bill were only 50 cents or so a month..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're confused, there is no fusion taking place at the surface.

So you think that what happens in side the sun has no effect on the surface...interesting...instead of being an idiot...go learn how to figure out temperatures based on radiating wm2 or wm2 based on temperatures...something actually useful...and you might take some time to learn to read a simple equation...because you clearly don't know how to do that either...

So you think that what happens in side the sun has no effect on the surface

That would be a stupid claim. Who made it? Where?

Are you claiming that photons from the cooler surface can travel toward the hotter corona because work was done at some distance from the surface?

 

[Crick]

[energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor

Do tell. How about you explain what it means for photons to be "ejected", how the fusion reaction in the solar core would do so and how those photons would make it through a large portion of the solar radius without being absorbed and reemitted?

Wikipedia, "The Sun"

Radiative zone
Main article: Radiative zone
From the core out to about 0.7 solar radii, thermal radiation is the primary means of energy transfer.[77] The temperature drops from approximately 7 million to 2 million kelvins with increasing distance from the core.[68] This temperature gradient is less than the value of the adiabatic lapse rate and hence cannot drive convection, which explains why the transfer of energy through this zone is by radiation instead of thermal convection.[68] Ions of hydrogen and helium emit photons, which travel only a brief distance before being reabsorbed by other ions.[77] The density drops a hundredfold (from 20 g/cm3 to only 0.2 g/cm3) from 0.25 solar radii to the 0.7 radii, the top of the radiative zone.[77]

 

[jc456]

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...and yet...that claim describes the basic mechanism for the greenhouse effect...

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...

Like most of your claims.

but it isn't his claim. derp

His claim was -18 and -18 give you something warmer.

Who else claimed that besides SSDD?

he never claimed that all. not sure what thread your in?

two radiators...both radiating ...239.7wm^2 equates to a radiating temperature of -18 degrees....so they combine the radiation from these two radiators which are radiating at -18 degrees and suddenly you have a temperature of 29.85 degrees...

Post #135.

Yeah he posted that. He did that to see who agreed with the formula. Nothing more nothing less

 

[jc456]

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

Are they blocked? Or do they manage to leave the Sun's surface?

well it isn't known now is it?

You don't know if photons can leave the surface of the Sun? Wow.

well post it up bubba, show us

You need me to show you photons from the Sun? Wow.

Well the rest of the world doesn't know what's happening but you obviously do!

 

[jc456]

How is it you all think -18 to -18 will get 29?

Who said that? Where?

another one who can't read a simple graphic and understand what is being stated... Here...let me help you out...

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere and some judicious misuse of the SB equations yields you a radiating temperature of 303K which is 29.85C

It has become more than obvious that none of you yahoos has even the slightest idea of the wacko misuse of the SB law and the laws of thermodynamics that go into the lunacy that is the greenhouse effect...you have just been believing because all the questions that you ask...and the comments that wuwei has made make it more than clear that you can't read the equations for yourself and know what they say..

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

I have already pointed it out to him numerous times...he just doesn't like it so he lies and says that no one has explained it to him....the fact is that energy won't SPONTANEOUSLY move from cool to warm..it can move from cool to warm..just not spontaneously...energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...toddster likes to think that there is no work going on in the sun or on its surface...all that conversion of elements into heat and light in toddsters world doesn't equate to work...

energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...

You're confused, there is no fusion taking place at the surface.

How do you know? Post someone saying what is going on there!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...

Like most of your claims.

but it isn't his claim. derp

His claim was -18 and -18 give you something warmer.

Who else claimed that besides SSDD?

he never claimed that all. not sure what thread your in?

two radiators...both radiating ...239.7wm^2 equates to a radiating temperature of -18 degrees....so they combine the radiation from these two radiators which are radiating at -18 degrees and suddenly you have a temperature of 29.85 degrees...

Post #135.

Yeah he posted that. He did that to see who agreed with the formula. Nothing more nothing less

Yeah he posted that.

You claimed he didn't. Were you lying?

He did that to see who agreed with the formula.

Yes, he posted an inaccurate formula and was shocked that no one agreed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are they blocked? Or do they manage to leave the Sun's surface?

well it isn't known now is it?

You don't know if photons can leave the surface of the Sun? Wow.

well post it up bubba, show us

You need me to show you photons from the Sun? Wow.

Well the rest of the world doesn't know what's happening but you obviously do!

Well the rest of the world doesn't know what's happening but you obviously do!

The rest of the world knows that photons from the Sun travel thru the much hotter corona...
except for you and SSDD.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

another one who can't read a simple graphic and understand what is being stated... Here...let me help you out...

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere and some judicious misuse of the SB equations yields you a radiating temperature of 303K which is 29.85C

It has become more than obvious that none of you yahoos has even the slightest idea of the wacko misuse of the SB law and the laws of thermodynamics that go into the lunacy that is the greenhouse effect...you have just been believing because all the questions that you ask...and the comments that wuwei has made make it more than clear that you can't read the equations for yourself and know what they say..

At the bottom of the graph....see the line where it says T = (239.7 + 239.7) / (5.67 X 10^-8) = 303K

That is where it says precisely that...239.7 wm2 radiating up from the surface of the earth (239.7wm2 = radiating temperature of -18C) plus 239.7 wm2 radiating down from the atmosphere

Radiating up and radiating down don't get added together.
Radiating down from the Sun and radiating down from the atmosphere is what you should add.

another one who can't read a simple graphic

Irony is ironic.

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

You never did explain how photons from the cooler surface of the Sun manage to travel through the much hotter corona of the Sun. Unless you think they are somehow blocked? Are they?

no one has.

I have already pointed it out to him numerous times...he just doesn't like it so he lies and says that no one has explained it to him....the fact is that energy won't SPONTANEOUSLY move from cool to warm..it can move from cool to warm..just not spontaneously...energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...toddster likes to think that there is no work going on in the sun or on its surface...all that conversion of elements into heat and light in toddsters world doesn't equate to work...

energy radiating from the surface of the sun isn't doing so spontaneously...it is being ejected by a nuclear reactor...

You're confused, there is no fusion taking place at the surface.

How do you know? Post someone saying what is going on there!

How do you know?

How do I know that fusion doesn't occur on the Sun's surface? Wow.

 

[Billy_Bob]

why? is there some number in there that isn't accurate?

The inaccuracy is the claim that -18 and -18 get you to 29.

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...and yet...that claim describes the basic mechanism for the greenhouse effect...

The claim is certainly...most definitely...beyond a doubt inaccurate...

Like most of your claims.

but it isn't his claim. derp

His claim was -18 and -18 give you something warmer.

Who else claimed that besides SSDD?

The links provided from universities are the ones claiming it. And it hilarious to see the hoard defending it. SSDD didn't claim that it does he was exposing the fact that our ivory towers of science are full of shit and there are a whole lot of people swallowing it.